Bow rails?

steveandtina said:

I am the proud owner of the 3rd boat American Tug built. It's a long step down to the dock from either pilot house doors, If you do in fact plan on using either pilot house door on a REGULAR basis forget the gate-- it will become a pain in the ass. If the conditions warrant you needing a rail for safe passage bow to stern use the salon!! I speak from experience on this topic. If you want to know what your boat wil look like in14 years pm me and i can send you a few pics--steveand tina AMERICAN PRIDE--hull 003

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Valid point for their use

We have full lgth rails on our Mainship and added a gate at the helm door. It is a higher exit and helpful when tieing up to walls that are higher making exit from cockpit or platform difficult. Admiral loves the security of a safe walk around.... we're Sr citizens + and hope to continue another 10 yrs.
Also handy for hanging fenders when locking, docking or rafting.

Weight the +/- for your situation

Bruce B said:

The door is not an option as it comes in all of the American Tug pilothouse's, there is a door on each side actually. There is an option for a gate in that rail that I am questioning. I'm guessing it is there to allow quick access from the pilothouse door to the dock through the gate.
It is probably a good idea...

Maybe this way I will be boating into my 70's and beyond too?
Bruce

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I seldom use my pilothouse door for dock access. But every now and then I really appreciate having the door and the gate in the railing.



Ted

We have rails all around, one rail gate on each side close to the pilot house doors and one rail gate at stern, again close to the aft cabin door. All three rail gates we use regularly for dock access depending on docking situation.
Under rough sea condition we never use the pilot house side doors to access the deck. We step out the aft cabins door and pick the life belt into the life line on the deck. Walking then from stern to bow we don't want to miss the side rail: it is good to have rails for both hands (rail at cabin roof and side rail) on a rolling power boat.
I never missed a robust side rail when I was sailing. The sail boat was not rolling so much in a beam sea like a power boat.
In addition the side rails give much safety in any docking situation / being in a lock etc. when it is necessary to handle the lines and fenders on the narrow side deck.
I don't want to miss them.


best regards / med venlig hilsen
wadden

O C Diver said:

I seldom use my pilothouse door for dock access. But every now and then I really appreciate having the door and the gate in the railing.

View attachment 51999

Ted

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Ted
Good illustration of my point.
We've tied to much higher walls and exiting w/o gate was a real adventure trying to get by the cockpit roof.

Railing can sometimes seem to be in the way and railing can avoid injury as well as safe a life.

IMHO

When positioning/placing railing on a boat the simple equation is: How many times will that railing get in the way as a simple bother/annoyance, and, are there times when that railing can/could/will avoid serious injury or possibly save a life?

One injury diverted and surely one life saved allows me to become crystal clear in regard to where I want railing on my boat.

Regarding railing "gates" at salon or pilot door entries and in the transom area. Seems to me that simple, single hinged, rest-stop, top-bar railing piece 2'6" to 3' long is the easiest answer. No muss no fuss. When opened, laying on the top bar it is completely out of the way and closed onto its rest stop it becomes part of the top-bar. Depending on needs the hinged area can be fore or aft on side railing and port or starboard on the transom. What also works well on some locations of railing "gates" is chain with quick clips on both ends and receiving holes on each sides stanchion.

All gate designs mentioned should have a sturdy railing stanchion on both sides.

Over decades of boating I have no way of counting the many times that railings have surely diverted injury for some person (me included) on any one of my boats. I am pretty sure that my brother's life may have been saved by the bow rail one time in a really big storm. Injuries diverted and potential of life saved = Railings (and hand holds) every where feasible on a boat... that's the way I see and play it!

Happy Railing-Placement Daze! - Art

"(and hand holds) every where feasible on a boat..."

Especially inside , as crashing into a bulkhead is much unfun.

Below frequently one can not anticipate the "big" ones that may come while anchored!

There is an offshoot of this conversation on my Test drive post with an interesting comment by a former American Tug 395 owner in post number 4.
Wish it had been made here for continuity but...
Bruce

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/american-tug-395-test-drive-video-26149.html#post442986

Bruce B said:

There is an offshoot of this conversation on my Test drive post with an interesting comment by a former American Tug 395 owner in post number 4.
Wish it had been made here for continuity but...
Bruce

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/american-tug-395-test-drive-video-26149.html#post442986

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As per the link's troubles mentioned: In addition to our Tolly's full railing complement there are also easily walkable side decks for 360 degree access around the boat.

Art said:

As per the link's troubles mentioned: In addition to our Tolly's full railing complement there are also easily walkable side decks for 360 degree access around the boat.

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That would be helpful if we were looking at those boats, we however, have our hearts set on the American Tug...
I really don't yet know how we will approach this.
Bruce

Bruce B said:

That would be helpful if we were looking at those boats, we however, have our hearts set on the American Tug...
I really don't yet know how we will approach this.
Bruce

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Tollycraft construction, comfort, seaworthy items might surprise you... maybe you should take a look at a couple Tollys. Unfortunately, there may not be too many in RI for review. YachtWorld usually has plenty of Tollys offered for review.

Best Luck!

As for the gates, one of the things I loved about our old Hatteras was the doors on both sides of the helm, leading to gates on the full rails. We used an easy-on light weight Marquip ladder to access even a floating dock, which took about 30 seconds to deploy. However, Jack Hargrave in a typical attention to detail, designed in a portlight about halfway down each side of the hull immediately under the gate, which I (not Ann on a floating dock) could use as a step to get on and off the boat if need be.
These features among several others made it easy for clumsy, inept me to single hand that big tub of a boat.

OK
We went to the stock boat that the east coast dealer has today and came to the conclusion that the small side decks and great handholds make rail-less the way to go for us!
It is really easy to get up the side while hanging on to the handholds on this design and there is no question that the rails would make that more difficult...

We have a decision folks!
Bruce

Let me backup your decision, as I heartily agree it is a good one. We did 6,850 mi around the Great Loop on our AT 34 and never found any reason to have wanted any side rails (between the pilot house doors and the cockpit). It is convenient and easy to get to either side of the bow/anchor and mid-ship cleats from the pilot house, and easy to get to the cockpit from the stern cleats. We went through 147 locks, docked or anchored out countless times and I traversed the side deck holding on to the sun deck rail without any issues.

Glad to hear that your decision was an easy one.

Hawg "With side rails you can add a run of nice taut (black?) canvas to an appropriate height between the stanchions
to restrain pets."
I always thought those canvases were so the first mate could sun bathe in privacy. Can't relate to the pets comment though, After the first time in the water they learn to stay on board.

What dhays (#10) said X2! Removed about 10' so side rail due to:1) passage so narrow that stanchions were literal tripping hazards; 2) rail/stanchion continually flexed as people passed - leaks. Fortunate in that I have shoulder high grab rail for that interval and sufficient deck width for good footing. Very boat specific, but in my case, no rail = better.

No rail is no problem till you no longer on boat cause there was no rail!


For thin walkways... I agree with no rail.

Bruce, ideally you should have 360-degree railings and gates near, but not directly opposite, the pilothouse doors.

I know your decision is made but I would have voted for rails. safe walk-around side decks is major reason we chose the boat we did.

markpierce said:

Bruce, ideally you should have 360-degree railings and gates near, but not directly opposite, the pilothouse doors.

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Dawdler said:

I know your decision is made but I would have voted for rails. safe walk-around side decks is major reason we chose the boat we did.

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What you guys seem to be missing is that for the boat that Bruce has decided on, rails don't make sense. Of course they make sense for the Coot (any excuse to see pictures of the Coot is a good one BTW) and for the Grand Banks 46 they make sense because the GB46 was designed to have them. Which as you point out is why you picked that boat.

The AT 395 is a great boat and it isn't a Grand Banks nor is it a Coot. Different size, different design, different era.

Believe me, if they made sense on the American Tug 395, we would have ordered them!
There is a comment on another post I made by Nick14 describing exactly why we made the decision not to include the rails. Nick owned a sister ship for 2 years that was equipped with the rails and he explains the issue. It made sense when reading his post but it really made sense standing on the boat yesterday!
Here is the thread and you can find Nicks description beginning on reply number 4.
Bruce

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s3/american-tug-395-test-drive-video-26149.html

Dawdler said:

I know your decision is made but I would have voted for rails. safe walk-around side decks is major reason we chose the boat we did.

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Ditto!

Of course... when younger... I thought nothing of little to no rails. As long as I had hand holds.

Being able to walk along the side is so nice when underway, especially to keep close track of hitchhikers :



I strongly suggest getting the gates, they will come in very handy when using fixed docks. I can't imagine why someone would want them not lined up directly with the pilothouse doors, having to do a little jag to get on and off the boat seems unsafe and a PITA. Regardless, the AT's are great boats and you should have some fine times cruising her!