Borg Warner Velvet Drive Tranny Fluid Change

Since I have no idea when it was last done, it's time to change the tranny fluid.

The manual suggests pulling the cooler hose, but one of them is really hard to reach, and I'm afraid of doing damage in the remove/reinstall process.

Is it reasonable to stick a tube down the dipstick hole and pump it out?

Failing that, any tricks to getting the hoses off and back on?

I've found I still get a little more than half a quart out of it when I pull the lower hose off after sucking everything I can out of the top. There is also supposed to be a small screen inside the hose. It may be worthwhile to check that for bits while you're at it.

CaptTom said:

Since I have no idea when it was last done, it's time to change the tranny fluid.

The manual suggests pulling the cooler hose, but one of them is really hard to reach, and I'm afraid of doing damage in the remove/reinstall process.

Is it reasonable to stick a tube down the dipstick hole and pump it out?

Failing that, any tricks to getting the hoses off and back on?

Click to expand...

That will work. I would ten fill it with new fluid, run it a while and pump that out then refill, that should do it. Remember fluid is cheap as compared to a rebuild.

and for tricks: I've found I can pull the lower hose, mostly by feel, if I kneel aft of the engine with the shaft between my legs. As provocative as that sounds, I'm being serious

What about disconnecting the lower hose at the cooler and dropping it lower than the tranny into a container - have you room underneath?

I disconnect the lower hose at the cooler and attach an oil pump-out pump to the hose using an adapter.

The drill driven Jabsco pump gets the fluid out quickly.

I've been using a pump like this



for 7 years every 100 hours.

If you ruin the hose by removing it, then it needed replacement anyway. These are standard hydraulic hoses that can be made by many automotive parts stores that do snowplow repairs.

CaptTom said:

...

Is it reasonable to stick a tube down the dipstick hole and pump it out?

...

Click to expand...

That's exactly what i did.
Workds fine.

I also do not like removing hoses that are not too old and are very happy.

Does anyone have an idea of how much fluid is in a BW CR 2 drop center not including cooler? I am changing fluid Monday (putting new cooler on also) and am trying to figure out how much to get.

Thanks

bilge53 said:

Does anyone have an idea of how much fluid is in a BW CR 2 drop center not including cooler? I am changing fluid Monday (putting new cooler on also) and am trying to figure out how much to get.

Thanks

Click to expand...

Transmission Marine Velvet Drive by Borg-Warner BW-DR2

Sorry about that. Seems it has everything except the fluid capacity

bilge53 said:

Does anyone have an idea of how much fluid is in a BW CR 2 drop center not including cooler? I am changing fluid Monday (putting new cooler on also) and am trying to figure out how much to get.

Thanks

Click to expand...

Nothing official, but my personal notes for servicing my CR2 DC BW say 2 qts per tranny fluid change. Using the manual pumpout method every 100 hrs, IIRC, I get a little less out than that each time.

If it's that hard to get to. Why not add a t fitting and a short line to a remote mounted ball valve? If you wanted to go all out you could connect the engine and gear to a permanent pump/tank so when you service it you just pump in to a catch tank. It would be faster and much less likely to make a mess. Also if you are worried about the hose busting when you disconnect it. You are past the time to replace it. Most napa stores can make it as well as specialty hose stores. There are also a fair amount of mobile hose repair company's that will come and build what you need on site.

2.3 liter (what ever it is in qt). I change ATF by sucking it out via the dip stick.


best regards / med venlig hilsen
wadden

bilge53 said:

Does anyone have an idea of how much fluid is in a BW CR 2 drop center not including cooler? I am changing fluid Monday (putting new cooler on also) and am trying to figure out how much to get.

Thanks

Click to expand...

The design of the CR2 makes it impossible to get all the oil out either through the dipstick or removing the lower hose. Since the whole reducing (rear) part of the CR2 is "dropped" lower than the main housing about the most you'll ever get out is a little over 2qts even though they hold about 4. I find that either removing the lower hose (which can be messy and is definitely a pain) or sucking from the dipstick opening gives me about the same results.

Ken

kchace said:

The design of the CR2 makes it impossible to get all the oil out either through the dipstick or removing the lower hose. Since the whole reducing (rear) part of the CR2 is "dropped" lower than the main housing about the most you'll ever get out is a little over 2qts even though they hold about 4. I find that either removing the lower hose (which can be messy and is definitely a pain) or sucking from the dipstick opening gives me about the same results.

Ken

Click to expand...

Neither can you fully drain an automatic transmission as the turbine can not be drained. Typically only about half can be changed any one time. But this is sufficient to freshen the oil, as long as you maintain a schedule of fluid changes, which can be quite a long period of time on a road vehicle.
Heat really kills the seals, reducing the heat doubles the life, something about every so many degrees you can reduce the fluid temperatures.

FlyWright said:

I've been using a pump like this

for 7 years every 100 hours.

Click to expand...

Flyright- How did you come to change the tranny oil this often? Asked as one who rarely changes it out if it show normal condition. (I use 30 wt non-detergent crank case oil)
Thanks,

Al-27'Marben pocket CRUISER

Flywright- Okay, I found a site that recommends as you service time reflects.

Marine Transmission Service : Harbor Marine

ATF is the approved fluid there is no argument

Al

I got out about 2 to 2.5 quarts from each, through the dipstick opening.

Al said:

Flywright- Okay, I found a site that recommends as you service time reflects.

Marine Transmission Service : Harbor Marine

ATF is the approved fluid there is no argument

Al

Click to expand...

Al

TY for the link, put it in my folder. Dextron ATF they recommend for BG Velvet Drive is what my trany expert recommends. He did great job rebuilding port trany 10 yrs ago... had cooling water leak into fluid.

This guy has done my trany on all vehicles for decades. He was GM's national consultant on all their tranies years ago. He says... such as you mention in another post... no need to change Dextron trany fluid unless you notice color change or burnt order. If the trany is in good operational condition and nothing (like water) gets into Dextron fluid then it will last and last.

sdowney717 said:

Neither can you fully drain an automatic transmission as the turbine can not be drained. Typically only about half can be changed any one time. But this is sufficient to freshen the oil, as long as you maintain a schedule of fluid changes, which can be quite a long period of time on a road vehicle.
Heat really kills the seals, reducing the heat doubles the life, something about every so many degrees you can reduce the fluid temperatures.

Click to expand...

I completely agree with you. I was simply trying to provide a thorough answer to how much oil was required during an "oil change" on a CR2.

Ken

Did it yesterday and I pumped out exactly 2 quarts. Changed tran cooler and put in 2 quarts Dexron 3. This was preventative replacement of cooler and fluid looked/smelled good. Thanks for all the replies.

Art said:

Al

Click to expand...

Art said:

TY for the link, put it in my folder. Dextron ATF they recommend for BG Velvet Drive is what my trany expert recommends. He did great job rebuilding port trany 10 yrs ago... had cooling water leak into fluid.

This guy has done my trany on all vehicles for decades. He was GM's national consultant on all their tranies years ago. He says... such as you mention in another post... no need to change Dextron trany fluid unless you notice color change or burnt order. If the trany is in good operational condition and nothing (like water) gets into Dextron fluid then it will last and last.

Click to expand...

Art, Yep, to continue, when you read the Borg Warner manual it will reference recommendations in line with Allison C3 and or Cat O-2 which under 'Heavy Use' recommends mult-grade motor oil 5-20 or 10-30 one of the two.
In my area of commercial boat application, motor oil for BW gear is not uncommon.
Al-

My Borg Warner owners manual calls for 30 weight oil.

Al said:

Art, Yep, to continue, when you read the Borg Warner manual it will reference recommendations in line with Allison C3 and or Cat O-2 which under 'Heavy Use' recommends mult-grade motor oil 5-20 or 10-30 one of the two.

In my area of commercial boat application, motor oil for BW gear is not uncommon.

Al-

Click to expand...

Understood that motor oil is recommended for heavy conditions. What I don't understand is why two such different fluids work well under different conditions in same trany?? Next time I'm at my trany guy I'll ask.

Anyone here know why?

Mine discusses RPMs...over a certain amount and motor oil foams where tranny fluid doesnt.

psneeld said:

Mine discusses RPMs...over a certain amount and motor oil foams where tranny fluid doesnt.

Click to expand...

That is my understanding also.
And BTW I am running 5-30 synthetic blend in my BW 71 series.
This is after a discussion with my local BW distributor while I was rebuilding it 9 years ago.
It seems happy

jlenord,
Does synthetic have less foaming tendencies?

One concept that has been discussed locally, is ATF is dyed. A transmission leak then would puke red oil and identified in the bilge upon normal visual inspection. One has to assume that the bilge is clean enough to reflect the dye! {Mine is}

Al-27 foot Marben Pocket CRUISER

Nomad Willy said:

jlenord,
Does synthetic have less foaming tendencies?

Click to expand...

I don't know, but it has better lubrication qualities than ATF.
I know that as an engineer I worked at a bearing company (but I was not a bearing engineer) and the application guys hated when they had to spec a bearing for use in ATF because the expected life was lower. That was my impetus for wanting to switch to "motor oil".
I am running a low enough rpm to use "motor oil" per BW specs. (which I think is 2600 rpm max but I don't feel like looking it up).