single screw 48-50', 3 stateroom- suggestions?

Just for fun....I have a shortlist of 3 stateroom boats in the 45-50' range that we like but they are all twin screw. *What have you found/liked in that size with single screw? *Price under $150k so Nordhavn and the larger Kady Krogens are out. *


Got a boat like this you have been drooling over and love? *3 staterooms and single screw are most critical components for this exercise- size can vary down to 42' or so.

Sea Rangers, Defevers and wood Grand Banks are all examples that I would look at if I were in the market for what your criteria suggests. There are many steel boats, typically one offs, that also fit the criteria.

I do believe all the Defevers are going to be twins. We are considering converting our twin Defever 48 to a single. Not really a big deal to do, I wouldn't cross out twins.

-- Edited by Daddyo on Friday 25th of February 2011 05:00:23 PM

Well we are not in any serious mode yet...I don't think. I truly love our little Monk and she is a great, great boat and after all the work I've put into her we rather like her. We should have her back next week and fully painted and that will be great to see indeed! But you know how it is...always pondering the next ride and this week in FL again has just really impressed upon us again our desire to get out of Atlanta and start a new chapter. I'm not 100% against twin screws- I just have grown to like the single screw reduction in costs on every regard. Most all the single screw boats in the 45-50' range seem to be the steel trawler variety. Closest I have seen are some of the CHB 45' pilothouses but pretty sure most all of them are 2 stateroom layouts. More than likely a twin screw set up would be close to the only option in that size range and all my larger boats prior to this one have been twin screws so I definitely can appreciate their ease of handling!
Carl- your 50' Marine Trader really has been catching my eye- that and the 49' raised pilothouse by Marine Trader (ok, AND the 49 defever raised pilothouse!). I actually really, really love the lines of the 49 defever pilothouse but most all are only 2 staterooms. I seem to mostly keep coming back to the Marine Trader 50.

Anyway- for now I still love our Monk and have no real interest in selling her any time soon...really just looking to see what 3 stateroom/single screw trawler may be out there that has escaped my notice except for the one off steel hulled boats.

Tony,* You seem to like to work on your boats so why not get a twin with old engines, gut the entire engine room* and put in a centerline single?**A new JohnDeere would be nice.

The engine room would be enormous.

I did this on a 30' wood hull years ago, not a bad project.

P.S.* A bow thruster might be a good thing with a bigger boat.


Check out the 45'Hans Christian Independence Pilothouse* some of those came as singles.

Johnp

-- Edited by JohnP on Friday 25th of February 2011 07:46:52 PM

In the PNW many converted fish boats are available and some are wonderful little ships like Hollywood's. They are old so one would need to buy carefully but you seem to have those skills and when concerning such things like wood construction you'd know where to get the help/advice you'd need. Here's an example.

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatMergedDetails.jsp?boat_id=2252265&ybw=&units=Feet&currency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=1450&url=

Notice the Gardner engine and the aft saloon.
Opps......May not have 3 staterooms.

-- Edited by nomadwilly on Friday 25th of February 2011 09:54:23 PM

Another source of cool used commercial boats for conversion.

http://www.dockstreetbrokers.com/

Carl, I was gonna say the same thing. It is dangerous to be dabbling around like that....because the right boat will eventually find you. And then other things fall into place and before you know it, you are buying a boat(in this case but it happens with everything). I also NEVER EVER put in a low ball offer(and I am VERY LOW ball) unless I am ready to buy. Because sometimes, the seller accepts your lowball.....THEN WHAT?????....hahahha.

Speaking of sources for conversions, or in some cases already converted, here is a treasure trove. A person could get lost in here for hours....

http://www.pacificboatbrokers.com/

Superdiver,
I guess my reason for thinking of just a single screw is I have grown, in my limited time with our Monk, to appreciate it's simplicity and serious reduction in costs. I like that there is only one engine to run, maintain, put fuel in, etc. etc. I have honestly been surprised at how much I am comfortable with single screw handling and reality is that a 50' trawler with twin 120hp Lehmans or 135hp Perkins still ONLY goes around 8-9 knots- same speed as a single screw, yet fuel cost is 2x's, maint. cost is 2x's, etc. etc. So what's the point- skip the twin screw b/c you don't gain any additional speed, just a lot of increased costs, though you DO get better handling. To me though....twin 50hp's makes more sense than twin 135hp's since you get the same top end speed.
Before buying our Monk I never thought I'd want a single screw. Oddly- now I kind of like it and appreciate it and would like to keep that set up if we got a bigger boat for another purpose, though I definitely would want bow and probably a stern thruster too. That would give me the handling at a lot less running costs.

I do enjoy a good project but no way I am buying a wooden hull boat!

Tony, Tony, Tony:

Twins can cost 2x, but only if you use 2x the hp. Your boat will need x hp to reach whatever speed you cruise at. You can supply the hp to get to that speed, either with one engine or with 2. If you succumb to - I have the hp, so I will use it, then you would spend a lot more with twins. Short of that, you won't spend more. Your oil changes, maybe a greater volume of oil for 2 than 1, but only if your twins are too big for the application. EG: single 150 hp, v twin 80 hp, the smaller engines will have smaller sumps, so not much more oil. Oil filters, likely similar comparisons.

Props: single will be a much larger wheel than twins, so replacement cost will also be much higher.
Shafts: likewise, you will find shafts are sized for the hp being used, so twins, 1/2 on each side.

I am not saying there is anything wrong with singles, just that your argument on cost isn't a valid argument against twins.

I believe that a competent skipper won't care whether he is driving one or the other, so when boat shopping, you shouldn't rule out any boat that has what you want, just because it is only a single screw, or twins.

Keith,
show me a defever, grand banks, marine trader, etc. that utilized smaller engines in their twin configuration. None of them do- they just throw 2 of the same bigger engines so you have two 120-135hp engines to go 8 knots when probably 50% of that is required.

Most likely, if we got a larger trawler, twin screw would be the only option as there aren't many single screw production boats in that size. I just wish when they went to twin screw, that they actually appropriately sized the engines- a 45-50' boat does not need two 135hp engines to get to 8 knots.

OK, I have 2 Volvos in my 44 C&L (think Marine trader, as that is the hull). I go 8 knots, on 3.8 gph. My boat weighs 44000 lbs. Do the math on hp v weight, v speed. You won't find any savings comparing a single screw 44 ft that weighs as much. I have some unused hp in reserve, and I get the handling advantages that go with twins.

You won't find DeFevers, MTs, etc with way too much hp in their twins. GBs you will, as they have taken to using the 330 hp Cummins as a single (lots more power than needed to go 8 knots) and twin Cummins 330hp in the same boat, so Way more power than needed. Those boats can easily cost you twice as much to run, as they will do 15 knots.

My Marine Trader Sedan 36 22000lbs has a single 120 Lehman

My Defever 48 50,000lbs has twin 120 Lehmans

Not much of a difference.

Tony:
The other thing, extra hp is nice to have. You are right that you don't need all that hp. I have 400. I usually go 8 knots. What do I use? Not much. If I need some more, I have it. Does it cost me anything to have the extra? Not that I can tell. This is not a problem!
I get the impression that some have converted the single v twin issue into a religion. Don't be one of those, as it is simple physics.

Keith.,
Fear not- I am not converting to an engine based religion. Most all boats in that size are twin screws...was just seeing if there were a single screw set up boat out there that I had not discovered.

Tony,* I too enjoy the simplicity of a single on a slow boat.* I think you can find a larger trawler in a single, but it will take a lot of looking.

That gives you a lot more time to enjoy the Monk.

JohnP

Keith wrote:

"The other thing, extra hp is nice to have."

What on earth do you do with it????

Carl mentioned the Cheoy Lee 50.* I've got a Cheoy Lee 46' LRC, which features three staterooms, two with island queens.* They come available more often than the 50's and are referred to as the roomiest 46' trawler every built.* Twin Lehman powered, plenty of fuel and water capacity, with a lot of room to spread out.* And they are very well constructed.* And, it will fit easily in a 50' slip.* Right now, in the down market, they are selling in the $150K and under range.

Mark

-- Edited by Island Sunset on Sunday 27th of February 2011 02:46:58 PM

Just a thought.
If you add an engine, you add:
·4-5 gallons of oil.
·1 oil filter.
·1 set of belts
·1 raw water impeller
·1 fuel filter
·1 set of zincs (my engine has eleven, but most have less)
·1 more propeller to get damaged (clean during haulout)
·One more engine whose health must be monitored and assessed.
·One more set of instruments to monitor underway.
·One more set of valves to adjust
·Another set of injectors.
·Another $20,000 to replace, or $5-10,000 to repair.


I'm sure there is more, but this begins to make my point. As to the argument that the second engine will get you home, I would argue that diesels rarely break down to the point of not running. In the rare total breakdown situation, I'll drop anchor and wait for a good Samaritan or Vessel Assist to arrive.


-- Edited by Carey on Sunday 27th of February 2011 12:06:20 PM

-- Edited by Carey on Sunday 27th of February 2011 12:34:11 PM

Carey

But, what vessels (yachts not fishboats) are made as singles in the 50' range the poster questioned? Very few unless you can afford a Nordhavn, Selene, OA*or special build.

sunchaser wrote:

Carey

But, what vessels (yachts not fishboats) are made as singles in the 50' range the poster questioned? Very few unless you can afford a Nordhavn, Selene, OA*or special build.

Click to expand...

They are rare, but they are out there. A serious search would be required. As I am not in the market, I won't execute the search.

*

Carey wrote:


sunchaser wrote:

Carey

But, what vessels (yachts not fishboats) are made as singles in the 50' range the poster questioned? Very few unless you can afford a Nordhavn, Selene, OA*or special build.

Click to expand...

They are rare, but they are out there. A serious search would be required. As I am not in the market, I won't execute the search.

*


Delfin and we have trawlers that fit that description.******


*
It seems most of the larger single engine trawler have a close relationship with mfg that built commercial trawler that had to convert to pleasure.* Our trawler was from a mold that was used for fishing trawler that Ed Monk convert to pleasure.* So commercial/work *brokers/yards/mfg would be the places to look.* Most of the sites already posted are more commercial work boats. Delta, Northern Marina, West Marina and others originally build commercial boats.* *As RickB said, I am a wantabe commercial trawler.*


*

Carl,

Here are some photos.* We've had her for five years now and are really happy with her.* Plenty of room to take others along with us.* And rather affordable in this time of rising fuel prices.* Have her under cover and slowly work on upgrades and details.* The 46 is a flushdeck, and can roll in a beam sea.* Some have been fitted with stabilizers.* Mark


-- Edited by Island Sunset on Sunday 27th of February 2011 04:43:48 PM

Cheoy Lee 46' is a great boat- as is the marine trader 50, as is the marine trader 49 RPH and the defever 49 RPH though the last 2, as far as I have ever seen, are only 2 staterooms. The bayliner 4588/4788 is an option as well though I am not wild about the stateroom configuration so much. The 4588 approaches very good fuel economy @ hull speed and has a nice teak interior. We also really like the Defever 47 POC except for the fact that there is no lower helm door to the foredeck, rendering those boats with a lower helm essentially useless from our standpoint. A hatt 53 classic would be a great fit too except for those DD engines.

Decisions decisions.

Island Sunset wrote:

*

Carl,

Here are some photos.* We've had her for five years now and are really happy with her.* Plenty of room to take others along with us.* And rather affordable in this time of rising fuel prices.* Have her under cover and slowly work on upgrades and details.* The 46 is a flushdeck, and can roll in a beam sea.* Some have been fitted with stabilizers.* Mark


-- Edited by Island Sunset on Sunday 27th of February 2011 04:43:48 PM
*

Click to expand...

That is a great looking boat.... I love the rock formation in the last photo.... just East of Cape Horn right??. I was single handing on that section of the river last summer and just off that wall.... the boat started to make the strangest low pitch growling sound... I was about to do a engine room check when a locomotive emerged from a tunnel 100 yards abeam to me and cut loose with his horn... I just about crapped my pants!...
I didn't happen to pass you while you were anchored in the hook inside of Miller Island on my trip down river in September did I?
HOLLYWOOD

*


-- Edited by hollywood8118 on Sunday 27th of February 2011 09:30:47 PM

That is Cape Horn, on our way to Beacon Rock.** The uncropped photo shows a freight train just entering the tunnel you refer to.* And, I've also experienced the same sense of fear/dread when hearing what turned out to be a locomotive on the shore.* Mark

Woodsong wrote:
I'm not 100% against twin screws- I just have grown to like the single screw reduction in costs on every regard. Most all the single screw boats in the 45-50' range seem to be the steel trawler variety. Closest I have seen are some of the CHB 45' pilothouses but pretty sure most all of them are 2 stateroom layouts. More than likely a twin screw set up would be close to the only option in that size range and all my larger boats prior to this one have been twin screws so I definitely can appreciate their ease of handling!

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You might want to add Sea Rangers to your list... our's is a 47 with raised pilothouse and three staterooms... *twin 135 Ford Lehmans cruising 6 to 7 knots on about 3 to 4 gallons per hour including use of our generator...

Click to expand...

-- Edited by Delia Rosa on Tuesday 1st of March 2011 10:07:09 AM

Delia,
Sea Ranger would definitely be a very good option- love the layout and lines of your boat!

One of these days, I'll post some pix of the interior...she is quite comfortable for a family.. as I mentioned, 3 staterooms, 2 heads (the master head has a bathtub), a traditional salon and adjacent galley which has an extra bonus, a separate pantry!