CHAIN STOPPER vs. ANCHORING BRIDLE

koliver said:

Maybe boating here in BC is easier. I don't use my bridle to reduce shock loads. I have the weight of the catenary in the chain for that. I use the bridle to eliminate the transfer of the noise of the chain rumbling across the bottom. Once there is a length of rope in the line, it really doesn't matter how much, that noise stops. Without it, the whole boat resonates with the noise from the chain over the bottom. Especially noticeable on a quiet night, at the change of tide.
Mine is a simple hook inserted into the chain so that when I stop letting it all out, it rests just above the water. The rope can be taken aboard through a hawse, or over the roller, really doesn't matter, then to a stout cleat or the Sampson post.

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Sounds like you don't anchor in stronger winds. 20 knots+ (sometimes less) typically takes the catenary out of a properly sized chain rode. That's the difference.

"Sounds like you don't anchor in stronger winds. 20 knots+ (sometimes less) typically takes the catenary out of a properly sized chain rode. That's the difference."

Right you are. Where we boat, if you get any overnight wind, you will see the anchorages empty out as folks that are uncomfortable head for the nearest marina. I can't remember ever anchoring where I knew there would be wind as high as 20 knots overnight, If I thought that would be the case, I would keep going and find a more sheltered anchorage. We can do that here in BC.

Just last week I spent Thursday night at Paradise Cove before heading up the Napa River. Winds were gusting to 30kt most of the night. Definitely had the snubber on for that night.

Richard

This is a shot from a year ago. I think the winds were probably around 20kt or so - maybe a little higher. You can see the chain stretched out and my snubber taking the load.

"Right you are. Where we boat, if you get any overnight wind, you will see the anchorages empty out as folks that are uncomfortable head for the nearest marina. I can't remember ever anchoring where I knew there would be wind as high as 20 knots overnight, If I thought that would be the case, I would keep going and find a more sheltered anchorage. We can do that here in BC."

Koliver

Last September I was anchored outside your back door in Ganges and the wind came up cresting at gusts of 30 knots. Short scoped boats in this crowded anchorage were dragging and mating throughout the night.

At dawn the scene unfolded with mast and stay untangling struggles the routine for several hours. Damage was significant. The perps were all sailboats with light anchors and rope rodes showing at the bow.

Our suitably bridled Bruce did pretty good at a 5 to 1 scope but did drag about 40 feet. We were scope limited due to the other vessels around us. My wife's Christmas present was a heavier Vulcan. Mother's Day is coming up Koliver. I look forward to inspecting your new treat.

Gordon J said:

Don't forget that the chain catinary provides most protection from shock.

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Well, yes, that too... until it doesn't. And at that point, jerk loads can be great enough to pop a chain stopper right off the boat...

Hence chain stopper (and chain), plus bridle...

-Chris

Britannia said:

This is a shot from a year ago. I think the winds were probably around 20kt or so - maybe a little higher. You can see the chain stretched out and my snubber taking the load.

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30 knots? Pretty tame seas.

sunchaser said:

30 knots? Pretty tame seas.

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No - this picture wasn't from last Thursday. I said 20kts which is what I remember for that evening. May have been closer to 15 when the picture was taken - there were whitecaps at some point.

"The chain stopper pawl on the windlass is the back up (although pretty wimpy) and the secondary back up is the windlass itself. "

A true chain stopper is bolted to the deck with the ability to stand a load that will snap the chain.

Expensive to install properly ,is why its seldom found on production boats

The pawl on a windlass is not a chain stopper , that's why its tiny and wimpy.

Windlass mfg do not suggest using the windlass as a anchoring point , only as an anchor recovery device.

A good snubber setup, can assist in removing all loads from a windlass.

A kellet ( anchor rode weight) works even better , but takes more effort to deploy.

FF said:

The pawl on a windlass is not a chain stopper , that's why its tiny and wimpy.

Windlass mfg do not suggest using the windlass as a anchoring point , only as an anchor recovery device.

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This raised a question in my small brain. The windless should not be used as an anchor point. In my past boats, I always used a snubber with a chain hook to serve as the primary anchor point.

However, I always set the anchor without a snubber, using the windless to hold the anchor during the set. I'm sure I am not alone. What do y'all do?

A 2-plus-knot current straightens out my 3/8" chain rode quite well.

Dave,

Ditto. You use a snubber to take loads of the windless motor, and to insure it does not slip through the gypsy.

I doubt backing down on an anchor does much harm.

Gordon

dhays said:

This raised a question in my small brain. The windless should not be used as an anchor point. In my past boats, I always used a snubber with a chain hook to serve as the primary anchor point.

However, I always set the anchor without a snubber, using the windless to hold the anchor during the set. I'm sure I am not alone. What do y'all do?

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Always install the bridle before power setting the anchor. Forgot once and broke the shear pin on the Maxwell windlass.

ranger42c said:

Well, yes, that too... until it doesn't. And at that point, jerk loads can be great enough to pop a chain stopper right off the boat...

Hence chain stopper (and chain), plus bridle...

-Chris

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Which from the advice of my friend Ed, I've added an additional snubber, or better yet, my current snubber will become #2 and used in heavier winds, behind the #1 and at a distance that does not allow the #1 to stretch the Nylon more than 10%.

Sad to say, I have anchored too many times in 20+ winds.
I have decided to make a better effort to anchor sooner rather than later when battling winds underway.

I'm also having a set of rocker stoppers to be used when anchored made.

Bay Pelican said:

Always install the bridle before power setting the anchor. Forgot once and broke the shear pin on the Maxwell windlass.

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Wouldn't you have set the chain lock first before trying to set the anchor?

Putting the snubber on is the last thing I do. But I never let loads get to the windlass other than the weight of the chain itself.

Depends on how the chain lock is mounted... they can put strain on the pulpit and work their mounting bolts if stressed too much. I always regard chain stoppers as a tool to keep the anchor in place while under way, taking load off the windlass while doing so.

Hi folks,
I haven't seen much mention of length for a proper snubber. I anchor in 15'-30' sand usually, and I use two 50' 1/2" lines tied to the chain with rolling hitches. I usually let out enough snubber to get it wet, but hold the knots (hitches) just above the bottom, so they will not chafe and become untied. I was led to believe that by allowing your snubber to be in the water, you get better stretch and less stress on the lines of the snubber itself. Thoughts? BTW, I have used this setup in winds up to 40 knots several times (don't ask!).

Cheers, Bill

"Last September I was anchored outside your back door in Ganges and the wind came up cresting at gusts of 30 knots. Short scoped boats in this crowded anchorage were dragging and mating throughout the night. "

In the Gulf Islands, anchorages tend to run from NW to SE. Hence open to a NW wind, or, protected from the NW but open to the SE. When expecting a blow, it is always a good idea to move if you are in the one pointing the wrong way. The ready availability of alternatives is one of the pleasures of the Gulf Is. Those alternate anchorages also protected from most of the windspeed the exposed anchorages will experience.

Hence my earlier post re never choosing to anchor if 20 knots overnight is expected. I have never anchored for more than a lunch stop in Ganges, as I wouldn't trust it to stay hospitable, given its SE exposure and crowded conditions. Long Harbour, just a couple of miles away, is so much more protected, even from a SE blow, and not crowded at all.

Montenido said:

Hi folks,
I haven't seen much mention of length for a proper snubber. I anchor in 15'-30' sand usually, and I use two 50' 1/2" lines tied to the chain with rolling hitches. I usually let out enough snubber to get it wet, but hold the knots (hitches) just above the bottom, so they will not chafe and become untied. I was led to believe that by allowing your snubber to be in the water, you get better stretch and less stress on the lines of the snubber itself. Thoughts? BTW, I have used this setup in winds up to 40 knots several times (don't ask!).

Cheers, Bill

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Bill, I don't have the experience but the bridle that I am setting up will be similar, although not as long. I think that the wet three strand will stretch more (maybe not but that is my hunch) and I would also keep it off the bottom. However, I don't think that contact with the bottom should untie your rolling hitch.

There was a practical sailor article on snubber size this last January. It was based on some testing and they concentrated on couble-braid, brait nylon, and dynamic climbing rope (I should be able to find used climbing rope in my part of the country). I assume that 3 strand would be the same length as double-braid. Here is what they said.

Double-braid or brait nylon snubber length = 1.3 x boat length. For dynamic climbing rope, snubber length = 1.1 x boat length. These are minimum snubber lengths; longer is better, up to about 60 feet.

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dhays said:

There was a practical sailor article on snubber size this last January. It was based on some testing and they concentrated on couble-braid, brait nylon, and dynamic climbing rope (I should be able to find used climbing rope in my part of the country). I assume that 3 strand would be the same length as double-braid. Here is what they said.

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Now to clarify, I read that article as total length of snubber at 1.3 or 54' for Dauntless. or 25' per leg.

Is that how you read it??

Wxx3 said:

Now to clarify, I read that article as total length of snubber at 1.3 or 54' for Dauntless. or 25' per leg.

Is that how you read it??

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Yes, that is how I interpreted it. I am not sure that two 25' legs of a bridle will stretch as much as a single 50' line but I think it has to be close.

I note my windlass is pretty well bolted down to the platform/king post. I would think if the weather was bad enough to launch it into the bay, I would already have the engine running and pulling my anchor. As to the chain stopper and bridles? Never used them before though in truth my last real boat was a 33' wood Monk cruiser. It had about 30 of chain, the rest rope. I threw the Danforth over the side, tied the rope off on the cleat on top of the windlass and forgot about it. I do have a hook to grab the chain on this new boat, 34' CHB on the theory that removing some strain from the windlass gypsy is not a bad thing. It is all chain. I am of the opinion that the chain actually works pretty well as a shock absorber. With all chain, even though the part above the water may appear to be taut, the longer part under water has a big droop in it, catenary. No way the chain under water is straight.

"No way the chain under water is straight."

Wait for a bigger breeze.

78puget-trawler said:

I note my windlass is pretty well bolted down to the platform/king post. I would think if the weather was bad enough to launch it into the bay, I would already have the engine running and pulling my anchor. As to the chain stopper and bridles? Never used them before .

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Maxwell windlass manuals are pretty clear on this, saying, "Do not use the Capstan as a bollard. In heavy weather use a snubber tied off to a secure part of the boat."

What brand and model of windlass does your CHB use?

FF said:

"No way the chain under water is straight."

Wait for a bigger breeze.

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Not gonna happen. You will not straighten that chain with anything like a proper scope. One to one sure.

sunchaser said:

Maxwell windlass manuals are pretty clear on this, saying, "Do not use the Capstan as a bollard. In heavy weather use a snubber tied off to a secure part of the boat."

What brand and model of windlass does your CHB use?

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Yes, I agree and plan to use a stopper of some form. On my old Monk as I said it had mostly rope rode which I tied to the cleat on top. My CHB windlass is a Lofrans Tigress in apparent good condition.

Bridle (video)

Anchored in 20+mph winds with 30 mph gusts last 2 nights in mud bottom using the Quickline Ultra anchor and their anchor bridle system. Held like a rock, and we slept through the night. We spun around but did not move (c/w landmarks). This is the first time I have used the Quickline Bridle system, and it was easy to rig.

If the video loads, you can see the strain relief incorporated in the bridle lines to reduce stress on the cleats.

BTW, I downloaded a wonderful app for my iPhone that shows the wind speed, direction, cloud/precip, tides, all in an easy to understand interface. That is how I knew the forecast for wind speeds. This app was written for kiters and wind surfers. Check out WindFinder Pro (disclaimer...I have no business association with either of these cool products).

CC

We were anchored at Nanaimo with similar gale gusts yesterday AM. We hoisted the anchor in a steady 25 knots with gusts to 33. Boats around us were dragging badly and getting tangled up. That is the biggest wind we have retrieved anchor in, sure glad the Maxwell and its mounting are stout as during retrieval lots of loading occurred.

The new Vulcan performed superbly (4.5:1 scope) as did AlaskaSeaduction's Rocna anchored a few hundred meters away.

Yeah, lots of wind yesterday and I did not want to trust my anchor. very quiet this morning. I hope you guys up North also are getting a reprieve and SeaDuction can make his crossing.

Cheechako said:

Anchored in 20+mph winds with 30 mph gusts last 2 nights in mud bottom using the Quickline Ultra anchor and their anchor bridle system. Held like a rock, and we slept through the night. We spun around but did not move (c/w landmarks). This is the first time I have used the Quickline Bridle system, and it was easy to rig

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Thanks for sharing that

Can I ask a question though? Why didn't you deploy the bridle legs through the hawse holes?

To my (bottom of the learning curve) mind it reduced the amount of available stretch in the legs by introducing hard edges over which they had to go over, as well as generated heat (even through the chafe guards) in a defined spot which would reduce the bridles strength over time.

We rode out a similar wind for the first time last weekend bouncing around on a nylon rode, so your set up is definitely better than ours.