Working Boats & Pleasure Boats Using the Same Water

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Wxx3

Wxx3

Dauntless Award
Joined
Jan 10, 2013
Messages
2,820
Location
USA
Vessel Name
Dauntless
Vessel Make
Kadey Krogen 42 - 148
My off-the-beaten-track travels have put me in waters sometimes not much used by “Pleasure” boats. During last summer’s cruise of the Baltic and North Seas, for every pleasure boat we encountered, we probably saw 10 working boats of all sizes and types.

Before I got Dauntless, I spent hundreds of hours in NYC harbor on USCG Aux boats, which were anywhere from 22 to 44 feet. For every pleasure boat, there are hundreds of working boats. So I learned boating in a harbor that was all about working. Maybe I’m biased, but also practical and I see what I see.

If I have learned anything these last few years is that working boats are working.

WORKING.

They are not going for spin because the weather is nice. They are not trying to impress the ladies or friends with how well they can handle the boat or their knowledge of the COLREGS.

They are WORKING.

And that’s the rub, working means all sorts of things. That skipper has more on his mind than what to have for dinner or what his next drink will be. He is WORKING.

If he doesn’t appear to you to be WORKING, get over it. He is doing a job. He may not be towing, fishing, trawling, hauling, now, but he is certainly thinking about what he does need to do and how to do it. That’s his job, WORKING.

Also, 999 out of 1000 times, his boat will be more massive than yours, maybe by a few fold, maybe by thousands. In any case, the Laws of Physics dictate that the pleasure boat can maneuver better than the working boat.

So just do it.

Yes, I know you know the COLREGS by heart, but I’ll bet any skipper of a WORKING boat knows them better.

So move on and give the guy a break and stay out of his/her way.

They are WORKING.
 
I concur! Respect them and in most cases they will respect you. Especially when they are 10 times ( or more) your size.
 
If you question their intentions and can not raise them on the radio make your course change for avoidance of collision, if necessary, early and very evident. Believe me they know their whistle signals also don't be scared to use them.
 
Wxx3 said:
My off-the-beaten-track travels have put me in waters sometimes not much used by “Pleasure” boats. During last summer’s cruise of the Baltic and North Seas, for every pleasure boat we encountered, we probably saw 10 working boats of all sizes and types.

Before I got Dauntless, I spent hundreds of hours in NYC harbor on USCG Aux boats, which were anywhere from 22 to 44 feet. For every pleasure boat, there are hundreds of working boats. So I learned boating in a harbor that was all about working. Maybe I’m biased, but also practical and I see what I see.

If I have learned anything these last few years is that working boats are working.

WORKING.

They are not going for spin because the weather is nice. They are not trying to impress the ladies or friends with how well they can handle the boat or their knowledge of the COLREGS.

They are WORKING.

And that’s the rub, working means all sorts of things. That skipper has more on his mind than what to have for dinner or what his next drink will be. He is WORKING.

If he doesn’t appear to you to be WORKING, get over it. He is doing a job. He may not be towing, fishing, trawling, hauling, now, but he is certainly thinking about what he does need to do and how to do it. That’s his job, WORKING.

Also, 999 out of 1000 times, his boat will be more massive than yours, maybe by a few fold, maybe by thousands. In any case, the Laws of Physics dictate that the pleasure boat can maneuver better than the working boat.

So just do it.

Yes, I know you know the COLREGS by heart, but I’ll bet any skipper of a WORKING boat knows them better.

So move on and give the guy a break and stay out of his/her way.

They are WORKING.
Click to expand...

And while you're at it get off the highway and let those trucks get on with their work !
 
Not to belabor the point, but we have all had "interesting" interactions with working boats that I would not like to repeat, but I want to be cognizant that I don't understand what their limitations or situation and therefore it's almost always easier for me to act.

Also, I have had a number of really positive interactions. Once on the ICW coming north towards Norfolk, with all those bridges, a tug called me to tell me to go as fast as my little legs would carry me to follow him as bridges opened. He even called one of last RR bridges to tell them I was behind and to hold it for me. They did.

i think having send AIS also helps them as it makes it easy to call you. Since I've gotten the transceiver I have much more contact with working boats than before.
 
This is what we usually run into (figuratively speaking, of course) and it seems like it's always on a narrow channel stretch of the river. The tug is about as far to his starboard side of the channel as he can go and the same for us.


img_440409_0_995955ca17111d52daaccac8d6b14be5.jpg
 
I love taking photos of them as we travel on the St John's - those car carriers are friggin' humongous! And wait until they open the new Panama Canal - which they are preparing the St John's for.
 

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Wxx3 said:
So move on and give the guy a break and stay out of his/her way.

They are WORKING.
Click to expand...

My tug/tow boat son's comment on this:

"Yup. I prefer if everyone would just stay out of the way. The middle of the shipping channel, that's not for the guy in the 40' power/sailboat.

Seth D. Hawkins
Mate - Kirby Offshore"
 
The "middle' of the shipping channel shouldn't be the place for the working boats either...

What about the case where a working ship is coming down the wrong side of a shipping channel (with shoals both sides) at night, is attempted to reach on vhf with no response, and therefore pleasure craft adjusts course to very edge of channel to give safe passage. Is that cool for working boats too?
 
What is the "wrong side of a shipping channel " ? And yes, that is cool for any vessel to make course changes as to avoid collision.
 
Just to clarify, you're saying they are WORKING?

Only kidding! I totally agree with you Wxx3. I always cede to working boats if there's ever any question. And even if they don't say it, I know they appreciate it. One time we were crossing the ferry route between Mukilteo and Whidbey Island. Of course, we were doing our standard 7 knots. For a few minutes I was trying to determine whether I would cross in front of the ferry or not. I finally decided it would be too close (within a couple hundred yards or less) so I made a major course correction and paralleled his course to pass him astern. Soon I heard a hail on channel 16 for the "skipper of the beige powerboat off the Mukilteo ferry terminal". I answered, and he replied "Just want to thank you for adjusting your course. You actually had right of way and we were going to go behind you. But thanks, and have a great day." My response was basically "hey, you're on a time schedule, we're not."
 
The wrong side of the channel is to your port.

You should always attempt to pass port to port where possible. If you cannot you best be well tucked in or out of the channel altogether. To enable this you should stay to starboard as you go, so hailing and maneuvering is minimized.
 
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This may be a gross generalization but:

While we have these discussions occasionally here on TF, seems to me I read more of these types of discussions on some sailing sites. Most often on those sites, those complaints about right of way are directed at us power boaters, but there always seems to be several posts directed at commercial ships. It usually seems to go like this: "I was under sail in my 26' sailboat, coming into X port. I was in the channel and clearly had the right-of-way per Colregs X.xx. There was a 985' RORO car carrier hogging the entire channel. He made no effort to change course even though I signaled with my little handheld airhorn. He almost ran over me but I changed course just in time. Then his bow wave almost swamped me! I clearly had the right-of-way, what is wrong with those captains?"
 
Menzies: "The wrong side of the channel is to your port ". Very dangerous generalization. The largest shipping channel is the U.S. is the Port of Southern La. New Orleans to Baton Rouge. I believe that I would be fairly correct in saying one half of the meeting situations are on a one whistle with the other half are on two whistle meetings. Weather, current,channel characteristics, and even ships own manuevering capabilities all will influence the preferred side of the channel for the ship's pilot.

While the rules do state small vessels should try and stay to their Starboard of a "narrow" channel the definition of "narrow" is lacking and is considered based upon the situation. My point is that trying to operate a vessel on a "general rule" or preconceived notion of what side a meeting situation is going to take place on may very well get one in trouble. There is little substitute for good communications whether VHF or whistle.
 
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jb cruzan said:
The "middle' of the shipping channel shouldn't be the place for the working boats either...

What about the case where a working ship is coming down the wrong side of a shipping channel (with shoals both sides) at night, is attempted to reach on vhf with no response, and therefore pleasure craft adjusts course to very edge of channel to give safe passage. Is that cool for working boats too?
Click to expand...
Raising working boats on the VHF is always interesting. As pleasure boaters we are trained to listen and hail on 16 and then switch to another channel for the conversation. However, WORKING vessels are using their WORKING channels which often do not include 16. Here in the SF Bay they would likely be listening on 13 (bridge to bridge) and 14 (Vessel Traffic Service). Hailing them on 16 is may well be met with dead air!

Richard
 
Britannia: Agreed you should know what channels to call the vessels on. Just like bridges are on different channels and A.C.E. monitors different channels. It is easy to ask on 16 what channel you might find traffic on in such and such a waterway. As for the Gulf Coast and rivers you will find traffic standing by on 16 east of the Miss. and 13 west of the Miss. I think 67 or 68 on the Miss. Locks on 14. If you don't ask you won't know.
 
For the last ten years, I've spent the majority of my days aboard a fairly large working vessel, wiggling my way into ports using channels as small as twice my beam. I can definitely say that I personally appreciate those recreational seafarers that give my big beast a wide berth. I'm happy to move out of your way when I can, but often, I can't.
 
Wayfarer said:
For the last ten years, I've spent the majority of my days aboard a fairly large working vessel, wiggling my way into ports using channels as small as twice my beam. I can definitely say that I personally appreciate those recreational seafarers that give my big beast a wide berth. I'm happy to move out of your way when I can, but often, I can't.
Click to expand...

As others have noted, it is really about common sense and courtesy. If I can move to avoid a conflict with a commercial vessel, I will.
 
The law of gross tonnage (while not actually a law) = common sense.
 
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I've got to say that, in spite of all the war stories regarding commercial traffic versus rec boats, I have personally never had or seen a working craft hassling or endangering a rec boat. Quite the contrary, I've benefitted from friendly warnings ("hey skipper - that area you're headed into is a lot skinnier water than the chart says") and seen several serious assists from commercial craft (real trawlers) to rec boats.

The only real traffic conflicts I've seen have been rookie mistakes with added pseudo knowledge of the rules - saw a sailboat challenging a 150,000 DWT freighter in a ship channel crossing once - it worked out by a hair's breadth but I wouldn't have bet on it.

I think a lot of rec boaters lack an appreciation for the relative low maneuverability of the big iron. And no brakes.
 
Believe me...there's a percentage of commercial guys of all sizes and shapes that push past where they should because they aren't that good at what they do.


I have had tugs run me aground towing dredge pipe because they didn't think to call or little harbor ferries who think they are so important they cut you off yet they even more maneuverable than may pleasure guys...


yep...the big iron deserves a wide berth...early on...but there are plenty of commercial guys with their heads somewhere dark and after teaching 100 ton master courses...there's plenty of skippers out there that don't know the rules any better than seasoned cruisers.


I agree that working boats need a break much of the time...but act like a seasoned skipper, following the rules and most importantly clearly communicating when appropriate...and fitting in is really no big deal.
 
One other small note on being knowledgeable about conditions. If you see a barge tow with all empties barges and the wind is blowing he is more than likely going to want the windward side. He will be pointing up into the wind and actually kind of crabbing sideways down the channel. Talk to him and take the other side. He will appreciate it.
 
ulysses said:
Britannia: Agreed you should know what channels to call the vessels on. Just like bridges are on different channels and A.C.E. monitors different channels. It is easy to ask on 16 what channel you might find traffic on in such and such a waterway. As for the Gulf Coast and rivers you will find traffic standing by on 16 east of the Miss. and 13 west of the Miss. I think 67 or 68 on the Miss. Locks on 14. If you don't ask you won't know.
Click to expand...

Back to CH16 west of Bolivar Roads(Houston Ship Channel intersection).
 
As far as US waters are concerned, I do not think there are busier waters than the ones from NOLA to Houston. Especially the intersection of the ICW with the Houston Ship Channel with the Galveston Harbor Channel with the Texas City Channel....did I miss a channel??? Communication is always always ALWAYS key!!! Can you do without it???....sure you can. But talking it all out with concerned parties makes everyone feel better about it. A VHF group hug if you will.

One of the things I try to preach to the boaters around here is that you do NOT have to travel the Houston Ship Channel to get enough water under your keel. Many people just go out to the ship channel because they are too lazy to navigate other waters that keeps them out of the HSC and keeps them in water that is at least 10 feet deep. Sailboaters think that just because they have a 4 foot keel that they need to be in 50 feet of water. Anyway, my point here is that you can take measures to minimize your exposure to commercial traffic...and in many cases you shorten your trip while doing it.
 
Per a thread elsewhere, here is the likely conversation on the bridge of a tug encountering a small pleasure vessel approaching on a stbd to stbd course, but the pleasure boat makes a large correction to attempt to pass port to port when there is no real reason to do so other than being correct. It would go like this. (helmsman) "hey skipper/mate, look at this jerkwater in the Bayliner over there and he just HAS to go port to port!" "He is way the hell over there, why don't he just stay over there and go on his way!?". (skipper/mate) "ignore him, maintain course and speed". I have seen this so many times I cant count them, while working in the NW on tugs. As a pleasure boater only now, I ALWAYS try to stay out of commercial traffics way. Most of those boats draw 3-5 times my depth and cannot maneuver the way we can especially in close quarters. Also by and large they are much superior seamen than most yachtsman. They are professionals, we are hobbyists, (mostly).
 
Why would the Bayliner try to go port to port when he is already hugging the port side of the channel?

He either knows or doesn't know. Doubt that scenario happens that often.

He either stays on the port side of the channel and is prudent and goes to idle on the edge of the channel, or is on the starboard side to start with.
 
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