It is time for a new boat!

We've done this before. 11 years ago we ordered and took delivery of a wonderful Sabre 386 that we have sailed in 3 Newport to Bermuda races and cruised between CT and Canada. One method I use to begin getting a handle on a company (both manufacturers and dealer's) is to engage in conversation about the product. I always have lots of questions and I figure that if they are helpful at this stage they are more likely to be helpful later. At least that's the idea... I love to immerse myself in product knowledge anyway and this is a great source of information.
This worked well with the Sabre! That company gets my highest marks for support both before, during and after the sale and warranty period! They are truly awesome and it was easy to discern that when we were shopping...

One of the boats on our list is in fact the Sabre 38 Express. It is on the list mostly due to the fact that Sabre is such a good group of people to work with, not because we are in love with the concept of an express design...

That brings me to the other boats that we have on our list, a working list that is still evolving. One is the Nordic Tug 40 and the others are American Tug's both the 365 and the 395.

All of these are available with both a flybridge and upper "lounge" area. If the Sabre was available in this configuration in a boat below 40' we would be thrilled!

Anyway, we have talked to NT and AT owners for years and we are aware of their enthusiasm for their boats. Aesthetics aside, they are similar conceptually. Both seem to be well built and the time I've spent crawling around in their bilges has impressed me.

Now as sailors we have no real experience in the tug/fast trawler reality so it is time to ask some questions. I placed two calls, one to Nordic Tugs the other to American Tug and explained that I was a potential new customer who had some questions about the product that were not answered on their website. Questions about the reality of cruising at 12 to 14 knots and questions about customization etc.

The difference in response has been amazing!

15 minutes after I placed the call at American Tug, I got a call back from Kurt a VP at Tomco who answered my questions fully with great patience. He forwarded me material to support his answers and even volunteered his cell number for future questions! When they have come up, he actually stops working on boats and answers them! Amazing! I am trying very hard not to abuse the privilege...

Not having heard back from Nordic Tugs, I left a second message.... After a couple of days now I still have not heard back.

Surprisingly, I am having a similar response with their local dealers. One (the American Tug dealer) is doing everything to follow up in a busy part of their season the other...not so much.

It is too early to eliminate NT from the running entirely but they are not doing much to impress me yet. American Tug on the other hand is winning my attention!

No idea yet where this is going to end but we are scheduled to do a quick 2 hour "delivery" on an American Tug 395 next week and we have made contact with the owner of an AT 365 who will take us out too.

I'm beginning to get excited!
Bruce

From what I have seen, both the NT and AT are very nicely designed boats. Neither are what I would choose however if I wanted to run at 14 knots for any length of time.

dhays said:

From what I have seen, both the NT and AT are very nicely designed boats. Neither are what I would choose however if I wanted to run at 14 knots for any length of time.

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These are the questions I am trying to figure out...

Never said what length of time but we are wondering what happens when we head for Maine from the Cape Cod Canal? We are typically in delivery mode when we do this in the sailboat and 20 plus hours later we get there... Would 12 or 13 or 14 knots be tolerable for a long day?
Or even for 3 or 4 hours? Then we can move up the coast in smaller jumps? We're just tired of 20 plus hour deliveries... Or motoring at full throttle to BI to get there before the SW pipes up...

Bruce

You can always slow down in a fast boat but you can't speed up in slow boat.

Can't say anything about the American Tug but last year delivered a Nordic 40 from Michigan to the Hudson ... a pleasant ride at 10knots ..... an ugly, noisy, squatting ride at 14knots

boatpoker said:

Can't say anything about the American Tug but last year delivered a Nordic 40 from Michigan to the Hudson ... a pleasant ride at 10knots ..... an ugly, noisy, squatting ride at 14knots

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This would be my impression as well. Not that it can't be done, but not something that I would want to do often.

For the OP, I think that if you want a boat that can make those kind of dashes, I would go with a boat that is designed for it. As creek said, you can always slow down in a fast boat.

I don't know anything about faster boats, but there are folks here who have those boats who can help.

You may wish to peruse this thread. http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s25/contract-signed-new-build-underway-23188.html

John(the customer) is very transparent about the process and he is normally pretty willing to talk off-line if you send him a private message.

Bruce B said:

All of these are available with both a flybridge and upper "lounge" area. If the Sabre was available in this configuration in a boat below 40' we would be thrilled!

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Have you looked at this Sabre?
Sabre 36 fly bridge sedan motor yacht built by sabre yachts of Maine | Sabre Yachts

I have seen two slightly used ones in the past two weeks and aside from the price in Canadian was very impressed.

BTW, you have come to the right place.
dhays who answered above just went through the convert process, sail to power and has covered a lot of angles via his own questions. Search his posts.

Both great boats. I have a 2000 Nordic Tug 37 that I bought through the west coast American Tug salesman (Steve Scruggs...great guy!). If there was a similarly priced brokerage 395 available when I was shopping, my choice would have been more complicated!

I typically cruise at 8 knots burning less than 2.5 gph at 1300 rpm. WOT on my boat is in the 15-16 knot range fully loaded and turning 2800rpm. Max cruise speed is about 12 knots at 2400 rpm. Speed and fuel burn are close enough between the AT and NT to be a wash, in my opinion.

I've done 12 knots for several hours at a time and the boat runs fine. The bow rises somewhat, but visibility is fine. Noise and vibration of course are somewhat higher than at displacement speed, but they're not objectionable. For me, 10-12 gph is the bigger problem...

After 2.5 years owning the boat, I've racked up about 1400 hours underway. Been to Alaska twice, out to Haida Gwaii, and a whole bunch of local Puget Sound cruising. Heading back to Alaska in a week and a half. The boat hasn't disappointed me yet.

The new NT 40 is a nice boat, with a bunch of really good improvements compared to the older 37s and 39s. The increased headroom in the master cabin is excellent, the larger cockpit with better dock access is nice, and the overall level of finish has improved quite a bit since my boat was built.

I was at the Nordic Tug factory yesterday and just forwarded this thread to a contact there. Hopefully he'll respond!

CPseudonym said:

You may wish to peruse this thread. http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s25/contract-signed-new-build-underway-23188.html

John(the customer) is very transparent about the process and he is normally pretty willing to talk off-line if you send him a private message.

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This is a lot of thread to read! I'm working on it...
Thanks!
Bruce

Hawgwash said:

Have you looked at this Sabre?
Sabre 36 fly bridge sedan motor yacht built by sabre yachts of Maine | Sabre Yachts

I have seen two slightly used ones in the past two weeks and aside from the price in Canadian was very impressed.

BTW, you have come to the right place.
dhays who answered above just went through the convert process, sail to power and has covered a lot of angles via his own questions. Search his posts.

Click to expand...

We are looking for newer boats than these...
New is what we are considering now. I'd certainly consider any boat that was "the right boat" but my personal boat maintenance standards are ridiculously high! I have no interest in restoring a boat and at the age of most of these, that is exactly what I'd be doing.

Bruce

Looking for a different boat (used) or one with no previous owner (new)?

NT vs AT

I purchased hull 003 from it's original owner 3 years ago on the Detroit river and had it shipped back to the factory for some refits. Already knowing the AT's to be solid well built boats, the idea of getting a fresh water boat with less that 1000 hrs appealed to us. Since owning [AMERICAN PRIDE] I have installed a webasto forced air heating unit, 12 inch touch screen raymarine chart plotter with color radar, 270 watts of solar, new prefinished 3/4 inch hardwood floors in the salon and pilothouse, and a 12 volt freeezer. Why would I put such extensive labor and material coat into a 13 year old trawler? Because the boat has great bones. A great detailer in Anacortes has her red hull looking as though she is a 2016 boat and I could not be more pleased with her performance on the water. The fact that I can talk or text the vice president of the company and receive a reply in hours is a perk I never imagined. NT makes a nice boat to be sure.. What you may wish to ask yo

urself is--How many builds does AT have going vs builds that NT has going. Feel free to pm me with any questions yu may have--- steveandtina

Bruce B said:

This is a lot of thread to read! I'm working on it...
Thanks!
Bruce

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Believe it'll be worth your while. Reading your interest in a 14 knot 40 foot boat with flybridge immediately reminded me of this boat. Option that Helmsman 38 with the 450 hp Cummins and it should put a smile on your face.

Retriever said:

Both great boats. I have a 2000 Nordic Tug 37 that I bought through the west coast American Tug salesman (Steve Scruggs...great guy!). If there was a similarly priced brokerage 395 available when I was shopping, my choice would have been more complicated!

I typically cruise at 8 knots burning less than 2.5 gph at 1300 rpm. WOT on my boat is in the 15-16 knot range fully loaded and turning 2800rpm. Max cruise speed is about 12 knots at 2400 rpm. Speed and fuel burn are close enough between the AT and NT to be a wash, in my opinion.

I've done 12 knots for several hours at a time and the boat runs fine. The bow rises somewhat, but visibility is fine. Noise and vibration of course are somewhat higher than at displacement speed, but they're not objectionable. For me, 10-12 gph is the bigger problem...

After 2.5 years owning the boat, I've racked up about 1400 hours underway. Been to Alaska twice, out to Haida Gwaii, and a whole bunch of local Puget Sound cruising. Heading back to Alaska in a week and a half. The boat hasn't disappointed me yet.

The new NT 40 is a nice boat, with a bunch of really good improvements compared to the older 37s and 39s. The increased headroom in the master cabin is excellent, the larger cockpit with better dock access is nice, and the overall level of finish has improved quite a bit since my boat was built.

I was at the Nordic Tug factory yesterday and just forwarded this thread to a contact there. Hopefully he'll respond!

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We drove 1 1/2 hours to see a new NT 40 today! It has just arrived from the factory and the dealer warned us that the boat was not "assembled" but promised that we could see it.
We got there during lunch and there was no one to show us the boat so we waited 45 minutes, peeked and left. Dealer had said to simply let them know when we'd be by, we did that but apparently something misfired...

We found it on the docks and took a look. Nice looking design but we obviously couldn't get aboard... My focus is becoming more American Tug centric now.

I'm really looking forward to getting out on the 395 next week. Then I will report back!

I'll take some video of the ride and upload it to YouTube. I'm amazed at the lack of good quality footage while under way with these boats. You'd think in this day and age there would be more.

Bruce

markpierce said:

Looking for a different boat (used) or one with no previous owner (new)?

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In a perfect world...new. I am still open to the idea of a used boat but it would have to be priced well or in exceptional shape for me to be interested.
We looked at a 2 year old Sabre 42 this week. I'm amazed at how some people neglect their expensive yachts! Most people don't see the things I look for in a boat. That's fine after years of maintaining boats for a hobby and running an auto repair business that specialized in European cars, I'm fussy...
Bruce

CPseudonym said:

Believe it'll be worth your while. Reading your interest in a 14 knot 40 foot boat with flybridge immediately reminded me of this boat. Option that Helmsman 38 with the 450 hp Cummins and it should put a smile on your face.

Click to expand...

Believe me, I've already peeked at the manufacturers website. I'll read the thread and learn a bunch anyway...
Thanks,
Bruce

Bruce B

Talk to Steve Scruggs in Seattle about AT boat speed. Two years or so ago he did an AT delivery from Seattle to San Francisco as I recall and was quite pleased with the boats performance at 12 knots or so for the entire trip.

He is a class guy in all respects. AT Seattle/Anacortes should have his contact information or the internet is replete with his smiling face and contact info.

sunchaser said:

Bruce B

Talk to Steve Scruggs in Seattle about AT boat speed. Two years or so ago he did an AT delivery from Seattle to San Francisco as I recall and was quite pleased with the boats performance at 12 knots or so for the entire trip.

He is a class guy in all respects. AT Seattle/Anacortes should have his contact information or the internet is replete with his smiling face and contact info.

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Is he the one who "blogs" about AT's with links on the American Tug website? I've seen these but not read any yet.
Lots of homework in front of me!
Thanks,
Bruce

Bruce B said:

Is he the one who "blogs" about AT's with links on the American Tug website? I've seen these but not read any yet.
Lots of homework in front of me!
Thanks,
Bruce

Click to expand...

Bruce

Look up Expedition Yacht Sales, Seattle. They and AT are joined at the hip and Steve is the owner.

I would suggest returning to the question of type boat for a bit before focusing in on the AT. You are talking Sabre and American Tug and these are two boats from entirely different segments of the boat world. The Sabre is a great choice if you want speed and I'm not talking 14 knot speed but a 40 bridge with 425 hp Zues cruises at 28 knots. You were also talking Sabre Express. Again far different than the AT or the Sabre Bridge and until I was more sure of express vs. bridge I would be careful. I think figuring out the type boat you want before which one still requires more time and work.

BandB said:

I would suggest returning to the question of type boat for a bit before focusing in on the AT. You are talking Sabre and American Tug and these are two boats from entirely different segments of the boat world. The Sabre is a great choice if you want speed and I'm not talking 14 knot speed but a 40 bridge with 425 hp Zues cruises at 28 knots. You were also talking Sabre Express. Again far different than the AT or the Sabre Bridge and until I was more sure of express vs. bridge I would be careful. I think figuring out the type boat you want before which one still requires more time and work.

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This is just the beginning...
Again the Sabre is on the list mostly because we like the company so much. We can see that in spite of our desire to stay in the Sabre family their designs are not likely to fit our cruising lifestyle...

We really don't see ourselves on an express type design. Sabre does have a 42 flybridge design but they are apparently about to discontinue the 42 and introduce a new 45. 45 feet is simply too large for our taste and I'm sure that boat will break the budget! We really want to keep whatever boat we buy at or under 40' in length. I'd say that the 3 tugs I listed earlier are about perfect in size. My in laws have cruised the past 12 or so years in a Willlard 40 trawler. Nice boat but I would object to the sailboat like cruising speeds. May as well keep the sailboat...

Even 10 knots is a big jump in speed from our 6kt cruise speed we have now and I will soon know exactly what it is like at 12 and 14 knots on the tug. Again, I will take video. As far as living space, the tugs are all palatial compared to our current boat. Tons of room and multiple living areas make for an appealing platform. I'd insist on the flybridge as we intend to do the waterway and can see that as a great addition...plus it's a great place to just hang and watch the goings on when in a place like Block Island.

We will know more after a couple of sea trials certainly and the likely next step would be to charter a boat, something we never do as we spend a lot of time on our own boat...

Bruce

Bruce B said:

Sabre does have a 42 flybridge design but they are apparently about to discontinue the 42 and introduce a new 45. 45 feet is simply too large for our taste and I'm sure that boat will break the budget!

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So call Sabre, and offer to buy their last 42.



I know if I were to win the lottery, their flybridge 54 would be one of the top 3 production boats on my list to look at. It might even become the top 1 boat on that list, if they would replace the ladder with a staircase.


In any case, I know you said you wanted to stay at 40' or below, but I think you'd find that 42' is not gonna feel palacial after about the first month.


-Chris

ranger42c said:

So call Sabre, and offer to buy their last 42.



I know if I were to win the lottery, their flybridge 54 would be one of the top 3 production boats on my list to look at. It might even become the top 1 boat on that list, if they would replace the ladder with a staircase.


In any case, I know you said you wanted to stay at 40' or below, but I think you'd find that 42' is not gonna feel palacial after about the first month.


-Chris

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Believe me, we have concidered it!

A couple of issues with this. First of all, we went aboard a 2 year old 42 Sabre express last week and while a beautiful boat (essentially the same interior layout as the flybridge) we found some features lacking for our use. First of all is the galley. There is literally less dish and food storage than in our 38' sailboat!
That galley is not a cooks galley and the electric cooktop thing...
We cook and we bake, we love it. That is not something we want to give up on a boat.
We found that the 38 had far more storage in the galley than the 42 and in fact liked the interior of the 38 better...even though it still had the electric cook top. There is simply not enough outside living space.

The second issue is that some of our favorite haunts are size restricted. The inner harbor floats in Camden ME for example are restricted to 40'. We love it there!

Our own slip (a condo type slip) has a size restriction of 47' overall. The Sabre 42 would make it but just...

Then there is the reality of boat maintenance. I do my own maintenance. I wash and wax, I paint bottoms, I like controlling the process and outcome of the job and hey, I'm good! Smaller is better in this case!

Finally, we spend months at a time on a 38' sailboat. Any powerboat of similar length will offer more room. We also spend months each winter "cruising" in a 16' Airstream Bambi. We are good at doing small spaces!

In this boat, we are looking for more comfort, more speed and the ability to extend the season without having to freeze in the cockpit when the weather turns.

Again, if Sabre did a 38 to 40' FB and they would install a propane style oven with burners...but they do not. It clearly is not their market. So we still consider the 38 express as it is a nice boat but, it's easier to see ourselves in a tug.

Bruce

Looking forward to your fussy list on the AT.
I keep asking myself; "how come so few have command bridges?"

Hawgwash said:

Looking forward to your fussy list on the AT.
I keep asking myself; "how come so few have command bridges?"

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I wonder why too!
Maybe cost, or do people just not use them?
I think it would be great to see what's going on from up there...
Bruce

Bruce B said:

I wonder why too!
Maybe cost, or do people just not use them?

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Or maybe it's a metronome?

Bruce, if I was looking at new boats in the general "go slow" category, I would look at the NT and AT, both great boats. I would also suggest you look at the North Pacific and Helmsman yachts as well. Different designs but similar concept.

You have already identified that you want a good galley. What about accommodations? One cabin or two? Two heads or one? It is hard for us to know how much $$$ plays into the equation. For me, new was never an option and used ATs were out of my price range. New, both the AT and NT are very nice if they check all the boxes. Both the North Pacific and Helmsman are very nice new and will be less expensive.

I would reiterate what BandB said, think a lot about speed. Look at your cruising grounds and do the math on the length of your legs. The prior owner of my boat normally cruised at 10 knots. I run it at 7 because I am cheap and it is much quieter than at 10 knots. A SD boat like all of those I mentioned can go faster is needed, but I don't know any owners who normally run them at that speed. Not because they can't, but because it isn't as pleasant.

Hello Bruce, a fellow forum member brought your post to my attention. First, I would like to introduce myself. I am the Director of sales at Nordic Tugs, and wish to apologize to you for not receiving a return phone call. We have been building quality trawlers for 36 years, and strive to fulfill dreams for our owners. Please feel free to call me personally @ 425-508-0802. It would be my pleasure to answer your questions or give you a tour of our facility at your convenience. If you have the time, we could go for a boat ride, and see why Nordic Tugs maintains the highest level of loyalty from our owners, and continues to stand the test of time. Sincerely, Cory Gracey.

Are these boats really that noisy??? I travel at 17 knots. I can barely hear the engines....just enough to manually sync them. I would say traveling at planing speeds does have its limit. I could easily do 12....14 hour days at 6.5 knots. You just don't have to pay that much attention so your mental awareness is not taxed as heavily. At higher speeds you have to pay attention. **** can go wrong...equipment can get destroyed...and people can get hurt. So you end up feeling tired at about the 6 hour point. In the end, I travel the same distance at 17 knots as I did at 7. I just do it more quickly and I sleep in and "take my time".

Another thing you have to consider is you will always have to have your head on a swivel and slow down for slower boats or kayakers or fishermen. It can get frustrating but you gotta do it. If you have been a sailboater then you have been on the receiving end of a powerboat wake!!! Believe it or not, it is rewarding to be a proper and courteous powerboater. Slower boats definitely take notice. And besides, someone could get hurt. I have a friend that travels at 13 knots and doesn't throw a big enough wake to piss anyone off. He does not slow down....I do. And he always manages to keep up with me. My point being, your average speed will be diminished by having to slow down! So plan/buy accordingly.