New Member- MT 49 Survey a disaster. Any advice

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boatpoker said:
While it will take a full day to survey a boat such as Shaunc is interested in, an experienced surveyor can find the major issues is 1/2hr. Choose your surveyor with care and pay him ($100 ?) to do a walk-thru and take a few photos of the stuff the brokers won't photograph before spending money on travel to see something that you'll walk from the minute you see it. This something I do several times a year for out of town buyers
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Good advice. When I hired a surveyor he discussed this up front, something along the lines of "I will provide an exit opportunity after an hour at xx cost if I'm confident that major issues exist."
 
There are many boats in good condition why mess with an expensive fixer. Sellers can not be relied onto do proper repairs
 
Ron T said:
How is your broker qualified to sell vessels if he can't do a walk thru himself and spot t trend in the upkeep and condition of the vessel? He most likely sells boats on week ends and aluminum siding on week days. Don't give him a pass. Just say good by, period, otherwise your the fool. Don't let him sucker you twice. And do not be in a hurry. I have told customers that I would take my motherinlaw out in a vessel I had surveyed and they still purchased it and then a year later are trying to sell at half the price.
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I agree. Look at the listing:

"Well-maintained, beautiful trawler"

"Ready to cruise immediately"

BS!

If the broker didn't know about how far from the truth this listing is, he shouldn't be selling boats.
 
tcpip95 said:
I agree. Look at the listing:

"Well-maintained, beautiful trawler"

"Ready to cruise immediately"

BS!

If the broker didn't know about how far from the truth this listing is, he shouldn't be selling boats.
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Agreed - Best part is that he definitely knows the truth about the boat now but the listing stays the same. And although thanks to Shaun we all know about this boat the 'next guy' that calls on that boat will not see this coming.
 
smitty477 said:
Agreed - Best part is that he definitely knows the truth about the boat now but the listing stays the same. And although thanks to Shaun we all know about this boat the 'next guy' that calls on that boat will not see this coming.
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A couple of other things mentioned and some not perhaps mentioned as ways to avoid this type outcome.

1. Beaten to death, but still worth mentioning, buyer's broker.
2. Surveyor with agreement to stop the moment he determines it has serious issues.
3. Require current photos to be taken, giving specifically what you want. Require some close up shots.
4. If it's distant, engage someone there to go check it out. If it's someone you know, that's great, but, if not, someone from a local boatyard or marina. Pay them $100 or $150 to go take a few photos with their phone and look at it and give you their first impression.
5. Ask some piercing questions of the broker. How long has it been on the market? Have you personally seen it and, if so, when? How many others have looked at it? How many made offers subject to surveys and then walked? What problems were pointed out on any surveys? There are certain things brokers may not have to disclose, but when asked, they definitely must. Why hasn't the boat sold? What have people said to you? What offers, if any, has the owner turned down? If a boat is listed for $100k but you'd never pay more than $80k for it and the owner has recently said no to $95k, then no need to continue. One thing a buyer's broker does is asks the right questions of the other broker on a distant boat. I know one broker who will not even move on a boat with her customer, until she is furnished with current photos she requests from the selling broker.
6. This one is even more radical. A disclosure sheet for the seller. It's become the norm and state law in many states on real estate. It's a detailed list of all parts of the house, all appliances, all rooms, plumbing, HVAC, and the seller must answer either they're in good condition or poor or they don't know.
7. Communicate in writing in addition to orally. If the broker tells you some things, send him an email back to confirm and for him to verify you understood him correctly. Build a paper trail. It also helps make sure you don't misinterpret.
 
BandB said:
A couple of other things mentioned and some not perhaps mentioned as ways to avoid this type outcome.

1. Beaten to death, but still worth mentioning, buyer's broker.
2. Surveyor with agreement to stop the moment he determines it has serious issues.
3. Require current photos to be taken, giving specifically what you want. Require some close up shots.
4. If it's distant, engage someone there to go check it out. If it's someone you know, that's great, but, if not, someone from a local boatyard or marina. Pay them $100 or $150 to go take a few photos with their phone and look at it and give you their first impression.
5. Ask some piercing questions of the broker. How long has it been on the market? Have you personally seen it and, if so, when? How many others have looked at it? How many made offers subject to surveys and then walked? What problems were pointed out on any surveys? There are certain things brokers may not have to disclose, but when asked, they definitely must. Why hasn't the boat sold? What have people said to you? What offers, if any, has the owner turned down? If a boat is listed for $100k but you'd never pay more than $80k for it and the owner has recently said no to $95k, then no need to continue. One thing a buyer's broker does is asks the right questions of the other broker on a distant boat. I know one broker who will not even move on a boat with her customer, until she is furnished with current photos she requests from the selling broker.
6. This one is even more radical. A disclosure sheet for the seller. It's become the norm and state law in many states on real estate. It's a detailed list of all parts of the house, all appliances, all rooms, plumbing, HVAC, and the seller must answer either they're in good condition or poor or they don't know.
7. Communicate in writing in addition to orally. If the broker tells you some things, send him an email back to confirm and for him to verify you understood him correctly. Build a paper trail. It also helps make sure you don't misinterpret.
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This entire industry seems to be run by used car dealers from the 60's
Put as much effort into your choice of broker and surveyor as you do the boat.
 
boatpoker said:
This entire industry seems to be run by used car dealers from the 60's
Put as much effort into your choice of broker and surveyor as you do the boat.
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As I wasn't alive for the 60's, I can't comment there. However, I do definitely agree with your second sentence. Interview brokers and surveyors with hard questions. A broker might be good but not for the type boat you're looking for.

There is no uniqueness about brokers, surveyors, used car dealers, or most other professionals. There are good and bad, honest and dishonest. My wife and I bought cars when we moved to Florida. We walked away from two local dealers where we didn't trust or like the salesman, and we drove to Tampa to buy our cars. We need to use discretion so as not to reward the bad ones. When I was in the corporate world, I once made a very large supplier give us a different sales person or lose all our business. I also sent out memos to every one of our locations prohibiting anyone from dealing with a couple of vendors some had used.

There are choices of brokers and surveyors. Fortunately, the OP hit the jackpot with the surveyors. The difference between the broker and the surveyors was he chose the surveyors, he took a broker someone else had chosen.
 
smitty477 said:
How would you know you had a good buyers broker?
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Interview them. Detailed and specific questions. Interview more than one to give yourself a basis of comparison.

Get references.

Keep in regular communication with them.

If you don't feel they're doing the job, replace them.
 
Shaunc said:
The mechanical survey is a bad as the initial survey and the engines have multiple fuel and oil leaks and are garbage...
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You can separate the boat and mechanical surveys. Do the one you are more concerned about first. If it fails one, save your $, cancel the other.
 
I wanted to post a quick follow up.
I received my deposit back from the broker last week.
The new search is under way.

I did get a PM from someone wanting to know why I wont share my survey for the the Marine Trader 49 Salon Bridge? I responded I will share the survey.
This person apparently contacted the broker and asked for a copy of the survey. He was told that the previous buyer (me) would not share the survey.
I have never said I would not and I have never been asked the question.
I will gladly share the information so the next buyer is aware of what he is buying and what the true condition of the boat really is.
Thanks to all that contributed.
 
Shaunc said:
I did get a PM from someone wanting to know why I wont share my survey for the the Marine Trader 49 Salon Bridge? I responded I will share the survey.
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Don't share the survey, sell it. It has value that you paid for, why should someone else get it for free ? It is normal in these situations to sell the survey for half price.
 
Great advice.

Thanks.
 
Shaunc; said:
The new search is under way.
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Don't go away though.

You and your wife should both take some time to read Boat Search 101 in the General discussion section. If you can, read it separately, compare ideas and then read it together, I think it will help the process. She can read it without the need to join but it would be nice to see her aboard as well.


Also do a search for mechanical and hull surveys. There are a lot of great posts on both.

Next, start a new thread with what you think you are looking for, why you think that way, what your budget is and what you think you do not want at this time. What you are thinking now could morph into something entirely different.

Lastly, I think a lot of folks here were concerned that you were close to proceeding in spite of the boat condition and advice. You just hear the largest group sigh ever.

Good luck with the hunt and don't rush it.
 
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boatpoker said:
Don't share the survey, sell it.
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My immediate thought too.
Shaun, puzzled about this, the new "buyer" had your contact info, and was told you would not pass on the survey. Why would the broker(presumably) provide details to contact you, with an untruth to be exposed the instant you were contacted? Could the broker be treading a fine line between doing the right thing by you without harming his seller`s interests. Just wondering.
 
Capt.Bill11 said:
Walk away.

The composting heads should be a deal breaker alone. :D

The survey is nothing special. Just your average quoting ABBS CYA blah, blah for the most part.
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I'm glad someone else noticed that. I hope you didn't pay $4,000.00 for that regurgitated babble.
 
BruceK said:
My immediate thought too.
Shaun, puzzled about this, the new "buyer" had your contact info, and was told you would not pass on the survey. Why would the broker(presumably) provide details to contact you, with an untruth to be exposed the instant you were contacted? Could the broker be treading a fine line between doing the right thing by you without harming his seller`s interests. Just wondering.
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I think the broker said this to "discourage" the new buyer from trying to get the info - which would instantly kill the deal. It sounds like the new buyer may possibly be a member here ("I received a PM" wording) OR ON ANOTHER FORUM WHERE OP posted info, and the broker doesn't know about this thread on TF.
 
Did the seller see or was he given a copy of the survey?
Any chance the "new buyer" might be the seller?
 
Shaunc said:
I wanted to post a quick follow up.
I received my deposit back from the broker last week.
The new search is under way.

I did get a PM from someone wanting to know why I wont share my survey for the the Marine Trader 49 Salon Bridge? I responded I will share the survey.
This person apparently contacted the broker and asked for a copy of the survey. He was told that the previous buyer (me) would not share the survey.
I have never said I would not and I have never been asked the question.
I will gladly share the information so the next buyer is aware of what he is buying and what the true condition of the boat really is.
Thanks to all that contributed.
Click to expand...

It's not uncommon to not give away a survey you payed for. At the very least the other potential buyer should have shown a little class and offered to pay you something for it.

While the broker should have asked you, at least he didn't give it away for nothing without contacting you first either.
 
Capt.Bill11 said:
While the broker should have asked you, at least he didn't give it away for nothing without contacting you first either.
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Um, and who's word do we have that didn't happen? Oh wait, it's that same lying-assed broker (has he updated his listing? I'm guessing not).


Keith
 
refugio said:
Um, and who's word do we have that didn't happen? Oh wait, it's that same lying-assed broker (has he updated his listing? I'm guessing not).


Keith
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Um, the OP was the one who stated that he was told by the next interested party that the broker did not give the next party the survey. And told the next party the OP wouldn't give it to him either.

So if you're going to call anybody a lier I guess you should direct that to the next party and or the OP.
 
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Capt.Bill11 said:
Um, the OP was the one who stated that he was told by the next interested party that the broker did not give the next party the survey. And told the next party the OP wouldn't give it to him either.

So if you're going to call anybody a lier I guess you should direct that to the next party and or the OP.
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Fair enough, but we don't know that the "next buyer" is not the broker. Or the seller.


Keith
 
refugio said:
Fair enough, but we don't know that the "next buyer" is not the broker. Or the seller.


Keith
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The next buyer called the OP. I'm guessing the OP could at least tell if he was talking to the broker or not. :D

And the seller should know the results of the survey. There is rarely a point in not sharing the findings with the seller.
 
The PM was off another site. Turns out the PM was from someone I know who was testing the broker.
They saw the listing price has been dropped but the listing still said "ready to do the loop", which he knew was BS, as there is 70k worth of work to be done before leaving the dock.
He emailed the broker and said he was interested in the boat and what type of condition it was in and if there was a recent survey done. He was told that the boat needed a little TLC and there was a survey but the buyer would not release it.
Turns out both were BS as 70k worth of work is not TLC and the boat being listed at 80K now was laughable. I would not pay 20K for it. He also wanted to see if I had been contacted and asked to share the survey, which I had not.
I will sell the survey if asked, but I doubt they would want me involved in any further dealings with the boat, as I know the real situation.
 
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Shaunc said:
The PM was off another site. Turns out the PM was from someone I know who was testing the broker.
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And again that broker said something that wasn't true (about you not releasing the survey). But I am somewhat mollified to hear that he amended the listing (and the price was reduced accordingly).
 
This broker is a total POS. Wasn't this the guy who you said you were giving the benefit of the doubt about the true condition of the boat? Well, there is no doubt anymore in my mind. I wouldn't buy popcorn from him. :mad:
 
"And again that broker said something that wasn't true (about you not releasing the survey)."


"Wasn't this the guy who you said you were giving the benefit of the doubt about the true condition of the boat? Well, there is no doubt anymore in my mind. I wouldn't buy popcorn from him"


I would agree with all this and say it is very accurate.
Problem is that I see this as being quite common after recent experiences with many brokers.
Unfortunately there is a lot of homework to do even before you go see a boat if you want to get close to half the truth.
 
smitty477 said:
"And again that broker said something that wasn't true (about you not releasing the survey)."


"Wasn't this the guy who you said you were giving the benefit of the doubt about the true condition of the boat? Well, there is no doubt anymore in my mind. I wouldn't buy popcorn from him"


I would agree with all this and say it is very accurate.
Problem is that I see this as being quite common after recent experiences with many brokers.
Unfortunately there is a lot of homework to do even before you go see a boat if you want to get close to half the truth.
Click to expand...

And once again this points to the value of carefully selecting a buyer's broker and not just going to seller's brokers.
 
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