ideal ocean crossing trawler yacht

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Larry M said:
I agree but are sea anchors really made or suggested for large power boats? A properly sized sea anchor for Hobo would be ~18' in diameter. Holy crap! How big a sea anchor would MYTraveler need? I would like to think, I'd deploy a drogue or equivalent to at least keep Hobo perpendicular to the seas if we were dead in the water in the open ocean.
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My sea anchor is 28' diameter, as I recall. My biggest fear when using it is that some other (much larger) vessel will get tangled in it and pull me under. But we have class A AIS, keep an anchor watch, and can release it quickly.
 
Larry M said:
I agree but are sea anchors really made or suggested for large power boats? A properly sized sea anchor for Hobo would be ~18' in diameter. Holy crap! How big a sea anchor would MYTraveler need? I would like to think, I'd deploy a drogue or equivalent to at least keep Hobo perpendicular to the seas if we were dead in the water in the open ocean.
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I think about this situation a lot. I've read virtually all the books out there, but as already said, it's 99% for S/V.

Having said that, I still thought to get a drogue, but now have re-thought that for the millionth time.
I have decided that I would be too concerned about getting a stupid line caught in the prop when I can least afford it.

So, back to Plan W, which is run with it as long as I can. The KK takes following seas very well. Frankly, I would not cross an ocean with a boat that doesn't. Our ComNav autopilot is also crucial. I change the setting based on the conditions.

If that is not working, I'd put her in Idle and motor slowing into the waves/wind, though probably 30 degrees off the bow.

In big seas, we may only be doing 6 knots. Low pressure systems travel about 25 knots. Also, the weather forecasts for the oceans away from the coasts are not as accurate. Might as well ignore them once you are days away from shelter.

Also the storm track would be only 10 degrees off the forecast, yet for you the conditions could be significantly different.

Richard in Ireland
 
manyboats said:
I did 20'+ seas in a light 28' OB boat (Dixon Entrance near Ketchikan) even ran abeam some of the time. The ability to slide (plane) sideways kept me off the tops of the breakers.

A benefit to bucking into the seas is that if you're headed toward land a lee shore awaits you and you're probably putting distance between you and the dreaded windward shore.
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Hey MB,

I know water goes down the plughole the wrong way down here, but surely you mean the lee shore is the one to be dreaded?

The "windward shore" or upwind is where safety lies. :)
 
eagle419 said:
Hey MB,

I know water goes down the plughole the wrong way down here, but surely you mean the lee shore is the one to be dreaded?

The "windward shore" or upwind is where safety lies. :)
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The terminology I am familiar with defines the leeward side of an island (and its shore) as the side protected from the oncoming wind, while the other side (and its shore) is the windward side. I can't say I have ever hear of a windward or leeward shore, but I would think they are on the windward and leeward sides of the island, respectively.
 
MYTraveler said:
The terminology I am familiar with defines the leeward side of an island (and its shore) as the side protected from the oncoming wind, while the other side (and its shore) is the windward side. I can't say I have ever hear of a windward or leeward shore, but I would think they are on the windward and leeward sides of the island, respectively.
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If you are standing on an island maybe, but in a boat, if the shore is to leeward, that is where the danger lies.

Just using seafaring terminology, but useful all the same.:)
 
I'm exhausted from just reading this!!! :eek: Why would anyone even take a chance on encountering seas that are described here? Especially in boats that dominate this Forum!...............:peace:
 
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I've been in 50-feet seas, fortunately in nearly-thousand-foot-long ships. I'd never take a small boat across an ocean, but that's just me.
 
markpierce said:
I've been in 50-feet seas, fortunately in nearly-thousand-foot-long ships. I'd never take a small boat across an ocean, but that's just me.
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In the context of that statement, how do you define small boat?
 
manyboats said:
I did 20'+ seas in a light 28' OB boat (Dixon Entrance near Ketchikan) even ran abeam some of the time. The ability to slide (plane) sideways kept me off the tops of the breakers.

A benefit to bucking into the seas is that if you're headed toward land a lee shore awaits you and you're probably putting distance between you and the dreaded windward shore.
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Aaah, Eric, are you sure you have your windwards and lees the right way round..? If you are heading into the seas, and land, you are heading towards a windward shore - the lee shore is in the direction of where the wind is heading to, not coming from, is it not..? :confused:

Of course being in the lee of the land is different - that's where the wind is coming over the land towards you. In that instance the shore is the lee shore - ie where we would want to shelter - is that what you meant..?
 
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In the Navy there is a trend among aviators and junior enlisted to call ships "boats" or "the boat". Realistically, ships carry boats.

I remember going up the coast of Oregon on an old steam frigate in the early 90's, the seas were large enough to be able to use the helm to counter the roll while sliding down the seas.

I looked to the stbd bow and caught an intermittent glimpse of a sail. When I finally got a look at the craft as we passed; it was a small boat maybe 25ft with the skipper nestled in the cockpit, hand on the tiller, huge smile on his face, surfing the probably 25 to 30 ft seas heading south.

So, I would say depending on the craft, the skipper, and the desire, just about any sized boat can traverse oceans.
 
markpierce said:
Our boats. :flowers:
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Way to avoid the question. So you'd call all the Nordhavn's here small, regardless of size? And the Diesel Duck? And the KK's? What is the size at which you'd call large enough?

I know for some it's 400', for some it's 50'. We all have different ideas on it. But since you used the word, I was curious as to your interpretation. Or are you saying you'd consider all boats here to be too small for that?

My own answer is two fold. I would not personally cross the Atlantic in anything under 100', although I recognize many boats under that size that are fully capable. There are several boats owned on this site I'd consider capable but wouldn't personally do it. I suspect you wouldn't do it in anything short of a cruise ship and nothing at all wrong with that if so.
 
BandB said:
Way to avoid the question. So you'd call all the Nordhavn's here small, regardless of size? And the Diesel Duck? And the KK's? What is the size at which you'd call large enough? ...
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Although theoretically and often practical to cross oceans, such a voyage in such boats is not my cup of tea.

I prefer a 900+ foot-long ship for transoceanic cruises. :blush:

Besides, it's much more cost effective to book a cruise rather than owning/operating an ocean-capable boat. That's not counting the comfort/food/entertainment/cabin-service available on a ship.
 
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Eagle419 wrote;
"The "windward shore" or upwind is where safety lies."
And PeterB wrote;
Aaah, Eric, are you sure you have your windwards and lees the right way round..? If you are heading into the seas, and land, you are heading towards a windward shore - the lee shore is in the direction of where the wind is heading to, not coming from, is it not..?

An island has a lee shore where the wind is blowing away from the island. Wind and sea wise a better place to be. If the lee side of an island has smaller seas due to lack of fetch to get there one must travel to windward .. into the wind.
If you're standing on deck and turning to windward you're turning into the wind. Eventually you'll encounter a shore, a lee shore on the leeward side of the island.

If you go turn downwind (to the leeward side of the boat) you'll eventually encounter a shore where the wind is blowing at it. Like the boat the windward side is with the wind blowing at it and onshore. The bad place to be.

A lee shore is w wind blowing away from the land mass. A windward shore is w the wind blowing onshore or at the beach.

Unless I've got it backwards ....

But if we've got an island and a boat north and south of each-other skinny part east-west .. long part NS and a westerly wind blowing everywhere ...the windward side of boat is west and the windward shore is naturally west also.

So going to windward will be the best hope of reaching the calm waters of a lee shore. OK tell me I'm wrong or right.:socool:
 
BandB,
No need to be pick'in on Mark.
It's quite obvious he means our boats are small .... compared to a cruise ship.
 
I think we are sort of both right Eric. In the days of sailing ships, they referred to a lee shore as the shore they would be blown towards if they lost forward way, and had no control. So a lee shore to them was the shore the wind was blowing towards, and not a good place to be. However, as you say, if you are heading towards a shore that is to windward, then once in the lee of the land you are in a sheltered place, and would be blown away from the shore if drifting. That shore is therefore, by definition, 'windward'. However, if the wind clocks through 180º, that shore becomes a lee shore, because you are no longer in the lee of the land. Confusing, isn't it..?
 
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Peter,
Maybe "leeward" shore as the shore is leeward.
But it's not a "lee shore" .... IMO
 
The terms "lee shore" and "windward" or "ward shore" are nautical terms used to describe a stretch of shoreline. A lee shore is one that is to the lee side of a vessel — meaning the wind is blowing towards it. Wikipedia

Ted
 
manyboats said:
BandB,
No need to be pick'in on Mark.
It's quite obvious he means our boats are small .... compared to a cruise ship.
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And he is correct. That is also my point that we all have different levels of what we'd consider crossing in. There are some like Mark who aren't crossing in any trawler, yacht, superyacht, or megayacht. There are a lot of very large boats that don't cross but go back and forth on ships. There are many boats represented here that I'm perfectly ok with the owner crossing on, but I wouldn't personally.

On the other hand, unlike Codger, I fully understand why one would cross in some of the boats represented here. It's always been in our plans to one day cross, but that's not coming anytime soon.
 
lee (n.) Old English hleo "shelter, cover, defense, protection," from Proto-Germanic *khlewaz (cognates: Old Norse hle, Danish læ, Old Saxon hleo, Dutch lij "lee, shelter"). No known cognates outside Germanic; original sense uncertain and might have been "warm" (compare German lau "tepid," Old Norse hly "shelter, warmth"), which might link it to PIE *kele- (1) "warm." Nautical sense "that part of the hemisphere to which the wind is directed" (c. 1400) is from the notion of the side of the ship opposite that which receives the wind as the sheltered side. As an adjective, 1510s, from the noun.

leeward (adj.) 1660s, "situated away from the wind," on the opposite of the weather side of the ship; from lee + -ward.
 
jb cruzan said:
Because you can!
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I suppose that some would agree with you but I'm not one of them. There are people on here with absolutely no ocean crossing experience posting how they would handle
heavy seas. Unbelievable!!! :nonono:
 
manyboats said:
Eagle419 wrote;
"The "windward shore" or upwind is where safety lies."
And PeterB wrote;
Aaah, Eric, are you sure you have your windwards and lees the right way round..? If you are heading into the seas, and land, you are heading towards a windward shore - the lee shore is in the direction of where the wind is heading to, not coming from, is it not..?

A lee shore is w wind blowing away from the land mass. A windward shore is w the wind blowing onshore or at the beach.

Unless I've got it backwards ....

:socool:
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In your original post you seemed to me to have it backwards - hence our comments.

Look up any nautical reference publications, passage guides, or just google the nautical term "lee shore" to see the (as used by me) context and description.
 
Codger2 said:
I suppose that some would agree with you but I'm not one of them. There are people on here with absolutely no ocean crossing experience posting how they would handle
heavy seas. Unbelievable!!! :nonono:
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Actually, my reply was meant to be light hearted or witty. As in "Why would you climb Everest?" ... Because it's there! I guess I failed in that attempt or it was lost in translation - sorry. :)


It just comes down to the size of the risk we are all willing to take as explorers. Really no right or wrong - just what each individual is comfortable with and that is how it should be.
 
I will admit, I have a bizarre fascination with big seas. I suppose I feel like I have something to prove, or maybe it's just suppressed juvenile aggression writ large, but I want to experience it. Maybe. I think.
 
RT Firefly said:
lee (n.) Old English hleo "shelter, cover, defense, protection," from Proto-Germanic *khlewaz (cognates: Old Norse hle, Danish læ, Old Saxon hleo, Dutch lij "lee, shelter"). No known cognates outside Germanic; original sense uncertain and might have been "warm" (compare German lau "tepid," Old Norse hly "shelter, warmth"), which might link it to PIE *kele- (1) "warm." Nautical sense "that part of the hemisphere to which the wind is directed" (c. 1400) is from the notion of the side of the ship opposite that which receives the wind as the sheltered side. As an adjective, 1510s, from the noun.

leeward (adj.) 1660s, "situated away from the wind," on the opposite of the weather side of the ship; from lee + -ward.
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RT, appreciate your dry humour, but just in case, 'lee shore' is a standard nautical term with a clear meaning to sailors.

When you break any standard phrase into individual words you can apply a different meaning.

For instance, the terms "aft deck", or "port quarter" have a clear meaning to me, but the dictionary meaning of the individual words doesn't give the non-sailor a clue.

Mind you some on here have called their aft deck a back veranda and I know what that means to them, so I guess it's all up for grabs.

I'd better stop now before I plummet into more Marin-esqe bloviation. :)
 
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Just to clarify on the whole lee shore thing:

I think some of the confusion is based on where you are. If you're on a boat, the lee shore is the one on your leeward side - with the wind blowing towards it. However, if you're on the island then it is called a windward shore, and it's on the windward side of the island. The wind is still blowing towards it.

Richard
 
Now on the ocean crossing and heavy weather conversation:

I haven't crossed an ocean though I've been in some nasty stuff. I fully intend to cross one or more (the Pacific first) in my Krogen 54 when I retire. Maybe I'll do it and maybe I won't - only time will tell. If I had the resources to do it in a 100' boat then I'm sure I'd opt for it.

I think the "why?" question is interesting. I don't get why people don't get why people want to do this kind of thing (did that make sense?) We are all somewhat adventurous to be buying boats of various sizes and heading out on them. For some it's lakes and rivers, for others bays and sounds, for a smaller group it's coastal and for a tiny minority it's crossing oceans and circumnavigating. It's all just a question of scale. We're all doing it for the experience and enjoyment gained. It's obvious to me that the level that is too challenging for me is someone else's idea of a good time. Even Marin's dog knows that (where is he by the way?) (And where's Marin too?)

'nuff said.

Richard
 
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