How big is too big?

mattkab said:

Great question, and one that we debate. I love the idea of a pilothouse (having never had one), but my wife not so much -- she likes that whoever is at the helm is still a part of the main salon.

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We weren't actually looking for a pilothouse, but got one. And Tom said he thought that was going to be a total waste of space. It's our favorite place to hang out inside.

Of course, I also said that the central vacuum was going to the first thing taken off the boat, and it was the first thing I used, and I use it every weekend.

Being brand new to a pilothouse, I have to say that it is even better than we imagined. Went out for the weekend with 4 adults and the pilothouse was used for everything from driving the boat, reading a book, taking a nap, listening to music, etc.... At times all four of us were comfortably in the PH while underway. YMMV of course...

manyboats said:

I've never heard of anybody really getting serious about helmsmanship.
.

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Wifey B: What?

mattkab said:

Handling primarily. I don't want to end up with a boat that has all the amenities that we want, but that we still don't use because we are afraid to take it out.

Or that we can't feel comfortable getting into an anchorage or dock.

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Some larger boats are easier to handle than some smaller boats. There's a lot of "it depends" surrounding that, and there are limits.... but disregarding costs (slip fees, upkeep, etc.) bigger isn't necessarily all that much more difficult to handle... and might actually handle better.

Wifey thought our boat was way big... starting when we picked it up, and then for about a month after that. Afterwards... no big deal.

-Chris

Wifey B: Charter, charter, charter... Best way to get a feel for what you like and dislike and how it is to handle different size and types of boats.

In my experience, there are several boat-specific criteria more important than size in determining whether you will be able to safely and comfortably handle a boat. With training and experience, I would guess that a twin-screw 45' boat would not be a problem for you, even without thrusters. FWIW, my wife and I run our boat with ease. In fact, my wife's only responsibility is often limited to getting a line on the dock when we return. At least without wind or current, I can untie and cast off without her help.

dhays said:

I am still in the painful learning stage. It took me three tries to do a simple side tie at a pump out dock my first week. I had a large audience.

The plan called for no use of the bow or stern thrusters. In practice, I ended up using both. Another learning experience.

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A couple of things to remember:
1. There is no shame in a missed approach. Better to go around and take a second or third shot at docking that trying to force the boat in from the wrong position. That can be very expensive.
2. The only people who pitch you sh!t about using thrusters are those who do not have them on their boats.

I love the idea of a pilothouse (having never had one), but my wife not so much -- she likes that whoever is at the helm is still a part of the main salon.

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We use or fly bridge helm about 99.99% of the time. I think in 5 years we've only used the lower helm 2 or 3 times. The fly bridge becomes the gathering spot for everyone and it's where all the fun happens.

Yeah really. Use the dam thruster. I'm all over my thruster coming in and I don't give a shat what some dock watcher says/thinks/expresses. I wear that bitch out!

cardude01 said:

Yeah really. Use the dam thruster. I'm all over my thruster coming in and I don't give a shat what some dock watcher says/thinks/expresses. I wear that bitch out!

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I get that, and I am not shy about using them. However, currently there is a poor contact I think in the stern thruster control. It has decided to not operate a couple times. I will get that fixed, but I want to be as prepared as I can be for when one fails unexpectedly. Also, my own bias I guess but I prefer to see them as a supplemental docking aid, rather than as a primary tool.

However, there is no way I can get out of my slip without them in anything but a dead calm and no current. Even then it would be questionable.

I'm just drinking wine and jerking your chain. ??

I agree that it would be nice to learn to live without them. My bow thruster didn't work well on my initial cruise home from FL and I learned to live without. (But they sure are nice).

GFC said:

The only people who pitch you sh!t about using thrusters are those who do not have them on their boats.

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True, true, true! I use mine all the time!

Never forget, replacement motors props etc is available for those thrusters so go ahead and wear them out.

MYTraveler said:

In my experience, there are several boat-specific criteria more important than size in determining whether you will be able to safely and comfortably handle a boat.

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Agree w/ many of the prior comments... my $1.02...

Are the sleeping arrangements the only point stopping you from longer cruises?
Why no agree to "suffer through it" to see if longer term cruising is really for you & the crew... w/ the understanding that if the answer is yes you can / will take action to correct it.

Agree on a written list of Musts & Wants (from Admiral, Capt & Crew)
and then go looking / shopping to see which best fits YOUR individual list realizing it won't necessarily be the same as others' list. Modify / confirm the list while on the 'extended' cruise

We had wide / safe side decks and no ladders on the Must side.
Wasn't sure about going back to a single but thrusters make that combo maybe the best of both worlds.
We decided newer & smaller was a plus for us but it was only the two of us.
Ease of Locking, docking & rafting up were a priority as was ability to single hand if/when necessary. The helm side door & wide decks have exceeded our expectations

I do think there are two types of boaters - those worried about handling the boat - and will always worry about it no matter what size - and those that have the attitude that they can figure it out w/ education / coaching / practice regardless of size.

I know a couple that has taken and completed every USPS course available and are still afraid to take the boat out - hires a Capt to take it to the other end of the lake every fall for lay-up???

It doesn't sound like you are in this situation but only you & the Admiral can honestly evaluate your situation.

Bacchus said:

I know a couple that has taken and completed every USPS course available and are still afraid to take the boat out - .

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Wifey B: Well no freaking wonder about that. Have you seen the post office lately? The mail doesn't even go in the right box. And you think they have a course that is going to help you?

Ok, I know you're talking Power Squadron. Just so many acronyms in multiple uses and the first thing that popped to my mind was Postal Service.

If you intend to use mooring bouys at the marine parks you are limited to 45 feet. Methinks there are lots of boats under that length to suit you requirements. Depends on the number of $$$ your willing to spend.

boat.wa.gov

But there are the times that thrusters cant overcome wind/tide and the bozo that thought they could slams your boat.


But thankfully those only occur once and awhile ....

psneeld said:

But there are the times that thrusters cant overcome wind/tide and the bozo that thought they could slams your boat.


But thankfully those only occur once and awhile ....

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Another reason to use thrusters even when you don't have to so you learn their limitations. Often the bozo you just referenced has no idea their electric thrusters can only be used in short bursts.

"Often the bozo you just referenced has no idea their electric thrusters can only be used in short bursts."

But props and motor parts are easily available after the white smoke clears!

Another thing to think about.... I know people with larger boats that are perfectly good boat handlers and are confident and comfortable handling their boat. BUT...because they have a bigger boat, they have less of a tendency to take it out on a whim. I will hop in my boat and cruise down the lake for lunch. They won't. It has to be "more of a boat trip" before they are willing to go thru the "hassle" of taking their boat out....IOW, a more important reason. Just putting around for a couple of hours they aren't gonna do it. They might hop in their dinghy for that.

SO really the the question is(for me anyway), how big before taking the boat causes you to pause...because of the hassle factor??? I am not talking being afraid of the boat or lacking confidence. Their is a size where it just doesn't make sense to go through the motions.

With that said, do not overlook boats like mine. It really is the "perfect" size....for me. It is a perfect combination of comfort size and ease of handling. I can still muscle the boat as long as the wind isn't blowing to hard. I single hand it easily. And I take my boat out probably 2 times a week. Just got back from a 3 day coastal cruise and mama wants to go out and put around today. And that is what we will do.

I have a boner for a Sea Ray 480 Sedan Bridge. The one thing keeping me from going for it is my sentiment above. It could possibly cut my boat use in half. And many of my favorite waterside holes in the wall will become less accessible.

On a related note, I have looked into some waterfront property. This particular set up is a canal home. The canal is so narrow that you either have to back all the way down the canal...or you are gonna have to back all the way. It is too narrow to turn around. So guess what happens???? You think you want to go boating....but....then....you don't want to go thru the hassle of getting the boat in or out. So you blow it off and your boat use dwindles. And so I didn't buy that property. My point being...hassle....for lack of a better word. The more taking the boat out becomes a production, the less you will take it out. And that's a fact, Jack!!!!

Good point.....isn't the word "boner" new school for be-LAY-ING pin?

Also known in some Grand Banks circles as a"woodie"?

No wonder some threads think there are those that think TF is too manly and scare off women....

How far is too far?

Baker packed a lot of wisdom in that post so let me chip in my 2 cents. Think about how far you live from the boat. I work less than 45 minutes from my marina but live close to an hour and a half away.

Buying the boat I envisioned leaving from work to enjoy a late afternoon cruise before dinner. Problem: the reason I bought the damn boat was to spend time with my family. I quickly learned to hate solo trips after work and by the time I'd get home it wasn't worth the drive both ways.

Now I had a few other issues pop up but the long and the short of it is my boat has a new owner and we're exploring our options for what our next step is. If we move closer to the water we may buy another, quite likely larger boat. If not we'll charter.

psneeld said:

No wonder some threads think there are those that think TF is too manly and scare off women....

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Wifey B: Scare them off? Darn. Most women I know like boners.

I do find it funny that women work so hard to hide sexual thoughts but you get a gathering of the and the talk will make TF blush. I'm very very very strongly opposed to sexism and sexual harassment in the work place and that includes dirty jokes, but this isn't a freaking work place. Lighten up ladies.

Baker and his post.

Anything that discourages your use is bad. Distance, docking, time to reach the ocean, handling, anything.

Now, I've seen people who make undocking and docking into much more than it has to be. Sorry, but finding ways to engineer (industrial engineering) things to make them more efficient is something I've done over many years. I had a friend on the lake. In five minutes I made suggestions that cut his time 70%. I'd watched him untying his lines every time from the dock, the rolling them up neatly and stowing on the boat. We flipped out dock lines aside and were gone, leaving them right there for return. We looped them through and over the boat cleats, no tying. He never used electric at any dock on the lake, yet he unplugged and rolled that cable up anytime. He also consumed huge time removing fenders, washing them (yes he always did) and storing them. He never used them again at his dock behind his house after he put fender protection on the dock.

Docking and undocking at your home dock are things you will do thousands of times. Do anything you can to make them simpler and quicker. Determine what the task that most costs you time is and then find a way to reduce the time it takes.

I wouldn't use a boat as much if I had to trailer it. I never have had to. I once kept a boat in dry storage. Loved it when I was out of town or otherwise not using the boat. Hated not having a slip when I boated and even having to call and have the boat launched. If I had an hour at the end of the day before dark, I wanted to jump in the boat and use it.

BandB said:

Docking and undocking at your home dock are things you will do thousands of times. Do anything you can to make them simpler and quicker. Determine what the task that most costs you time is and then find a way to reduce the time it takes.

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Excellent advice. I am inherently lazy. I have always had two shore power cords. One stays on the dock, the other stays on the boat. The same with dock lines as you mentioned. Make it as simple as possible so you do it more. That is why I liked my in-mast furling headsail. I didn't like its performance or shape, but it was so simple and easy that I USED IT!

How much bigger do you have to go to get a 2 stateroom model? Our 37 2 stateroom boat fits our 2 boys, dog and my wife and myself quite nicely.

Of course that does not keep me from daydreaming about a kk54.

If you want to look at 2 stateroom models, check out the charter fleets available on the internet. Most charter boats usually have more than one stateroom and come in all sizes.

dhays said:

Excellent advice. I am inherently lazy.

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Laziness is the mother of creative solutions.

Baker said:

You think you want to go boating....but....then....you don't want to go thru the hassle of getting the boat in or out. So you blow it off and your boat use dwindles........... The more taking the boat out becomes a production, the less you will take it out. And that's a fact, Jack!!!!

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Boy, can I relate to those thoughts! When we were shopping for a replacement for SeaHorse II, we considered a 48' & a 52' Ocean Alexander. Not only did the "use of a bigger boat" enter the conversation, the monthly cost (over 42 feet) in my neck of the woods was horrendous! So, we settled on the 42' and am damn glad we did. We just completed our first year of ownership on the OA 42 and it's been great!

Dhayes, now you can have a power cable at both ends, makes life real easy.

On the thrusters, use 'em whenever you need them! Living and keeping a boat in Seattle, we see a lot of commercial traffic. I have yet to see a commercial captain who has thrusters not use them because it isn't cool. Just the other day I was down at the Ocean Beauty Seafood docks beside the Ballard bridge. One of their factory ships was coming in, around 250 feet. He had a small tug, maybe 25' long, helping. He turned in the channel with the tug on the stern and the bow thruster going for all it was worth. He then came in to their dock, and with the tug still on the stern and the bow thruster gong overtime, put that sucker between two warehouses with no more than 5' clearance on either bow or stern. I don't think he gave a **** what anyone on the dock thought about his using the bow thruster!

Yea but most of us don't have hydraulic thrusters, so that's not an option.