Rant on boats for sale

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Back to Rob's purpose of this thread though...

We've been looking hard at trying to determine what boat we want, what features, what is "must have", what is "nice to have", etc... All the due diligence that all of you went through when you finally purchased "The One".

My wife and I have driven all over the state of Florida looking at boats. We're working with a buyer's broker who - beyond being a professional - has become a friend. He's been very helpful in "steering" us in the right direction, but purposely giving us a wide enough vector to discover for ourselves what it is we're really looking for. He's filtered most of the junk out of the way, but has also said "I think you should take a look at this boat near you, because this is what I want you to learn to AVOID". It's been very helpful in that sense. There really is no substitute for experience, and our broker knows I'm not going to make an impulse purchase.

I've quickly learned that when an advertisement lists the "this one will go quickly", or "this is a turnkey boat", etc. that it's most likely a piece of junk - or at the minimum has some significant problems.

My point to this is that you need multiple sources of information when you're making a decision of this magnitude. My wife and I will be taking a huge gamble - basically selling it all to try this for a few years (we're both in our 60's) - so we only have one chance to get it right. I feel much more informed than I did a year ago. From my perspective, if the boat is a mess, there's a good chance the maintenance, care & feeding wasn't done. I want to see a clean boat; I want to see a tidy engine room, (are display screens clean in the corners?); I'll know if it's just "lipstick & rouge" by all these peripheral indicators (if EVERYTHING is in order, you can't fake it all).

When I was in boot camp, we had to fold our underwear and towels exactly 6". The Drill Instructors were real PITAs about it. Finally they explained it to us: "if we can't trust you to fold a simple pair of underwear to be 6" wide, how can we trust you with a multi-million dollar aircraft?" From that day on, I've always paid attention to details, and know how to look for it. That attitude is readily apparent when you look in a bilge, or in an anchor locker, or in the head.

Continuing to lurk here (and other places) as we learn from all of you.

EDIT: Geez, sorry for the long ramble!
 
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I just used it for the first time...panned my office. It's a true panorama, not a wide angle "letterbox" shot...really cool! Try it, Con...just push the "pano" button and start shooting.

There's another really cool smartphone photo doodad...an app called MagLightPro When you click on it, it opens the camera and turns on the flashlight, floodlighting the subject where the light is low....which can come in VERY handy when you need to shoot something in a dark area...like the back side of an engine or locate a dropped item in a deep bilge.
 
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Consider with a really spic and span boat is whether the detailers have been at work, and if what you see is really what you get. Like a used car cleaned up for sale. Then again, a careful good on maintenance owner might want his boat looking at its best for sale too.
The only thing you can take for sure from all that broker puffery is that there (probably) is a boat for sale.
A quick spray paint "blowover" of the engine(s), incl the hoses, is not a good sign.
 
If the sellers about whom you complain were more cunning, they would behave as the proverbial car salesman and spray paint everything to cover up the rust, put a little sawdust in the tranny and be good to go. Personally, it is only when everything looks perfect that I start to worry about what I am missing.

On second thought . . . that didn't sound right.

No...actually Traveler, it made a lot of sense. As someone trying to sell a boat right now, it is a salutary lesson being on the receiving end of all the critical appraisals one hears. My philosophy has always been, with a vessel 40 odd years old, to prioritise features that relate to safety first, then function, and then, and only then, fancy finishes. My boat is clean where it counts, and everything works that should work, but I make no pretence about anyone being able to eat their breakfast off the engine room floor - why would you want to..?

However, as one's use of the vessel does diminish once you know 'it has to go", and especially if you live at a distance, keeping it pristine all the time is just not possible. So, to all those folk chiming in with their critical comments, please bear this in mind, and also remember that one day, you too might be in the position of a seller, rather than buyer, and believe me, your perspective will change quite a bit. Especially as you find everyone wants a fantastic bargain, but in excellent condition as well..! Ringing any bells..? Just sayin'...:nonono:
So Traveller's comment re being more suspicious of a clearly recently 'tarted up' boat, as opposed to one with some honest wear and tear, (and dust, bird poop, etc), is quite apt...:D
 
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Back to Rob's purpose of this thread though...
When I was in boot camp, we had to fold our underwear and towels exactly 6". The Drill Instructors were real PITAs about it. Finally they explained it to us: "if we can't trust you to fold a simple pair of underwear to be 6" wide, how can we trust you with a multi-million dollar aircraft?" From that day on, I've always paid attention to details, and know how to look for it. That attitude is readily apparent when you look in a bilge, or in an anchor locker, or in the head.

Wow, the secret as to why you US types are so anal... :eek: :D
 
If the boat is a current liveaboard the usual massive clutter is hard to hide.

If the boat was a dock cottage it should be clean and empty.

Its more informative to look in the engine space and see a case of proper diesel oil and antifreez than worry about stuff on a table.
 
Damn that's nice of you. Right back at cha! Recall that Aussie a-hole on OTDE, bout two or three years ago. We all simultaneously sliced and diced him into pretty fine pieces... went on for a few months, till the owners banned him from posting. He deserved it and we had fun! - Cheers! -Art :dance:


Except that he wasn't an Aussie, he was a Kiwi. And he wasn't really even a Kiwi. He was a mentally disturbed employee who was using his bosses computer and log in to post his own deluded thoughts, while pretending he was his boss.
 
If I told you a few (actually three) of the boats, with really bad conditions, I was lured into looking at by brokers over the years you'd either laugh till you split or you would think me pretty darn dumb to have been there at all. I did that laugh and also felt same about myself... as I've just mentioned.


Three decades back: I was so pissed at one broker for even showing me a 55' Chris that my wife had to calm me down before I let loose on the broker in public at a dock... in front of many. Then, after I low-toned a few crass words to him for even having us drive to see that boat... the J-Off had the gall to say what a deal I was missing - Geeeezzzz!! I asked him if he'd even ever been aboard that piece of garbage and he assured me he had. Either he is deaf, blind and has no olfactory capabilities - or - he's one of the most stupid people alive - or - he is a Great Big Liar - or - he is a greedy SOB who feels that as long as he keeps showing the boat to enough people that some poor fool will eventually bite and the sale will go through.


Anyway - In fairness to boat brokers: I've also met some really good and cool people who assisted me well. My experience has been that 75% of brokers are OK to deal with... it's the other 25% that should not be allowed to sell boats!


Happy Broker-Assist/Boat-Search Daze! - Art :speed boat: :dance: :D
 
Except that he wasn't an Aussie, he was a Kiwi. And he wasn't really even a Kiwi. He was a mentally disturbed employee who was using his bosses computer and log in to post his own deluded thoughts, while pretending he was his boss.

You're correct. "Aussie" was first nomenclature that came to mind. Flightless he was... greatly needing mental assistance. He seemed not dumb, just very disturbed. :nonono:
 
Whenever I open this thread to read the new posts I think back to my three hour drive (each way) to Titusville, FL. Long story, but in summary, the photos on the 'net showed a navy blue hull so pristine and shiny that you could see the reflection of the photographer in the hull. When I got there, there was an osprey nest on the flybridge and the plywood had long since fallen out of the empty salon windows. What an utter, utter waste of time. What I've never understood though is that drastically misrepresenting a boat, either verbally or with ancient photos, ultimately wastes the time of brokers too. What, do they think I'm not going to notice 50 lbs. of osprey poop on the upper helm? Brokers complain constantly about tire kickers, wasted time -- but I can't tell you how many boats we visited that bore no resemblance to the listings.
 
So how long should you wait for a broker to respond to an email for more info on a boat they have listed? Going on over a week, waiting, waiting, waiting....
 
So how long should you wait for a broker to respond to an email for more info on a boat they have listed? Going on over a week, waiting, waiting, waiting....


Oddly, many brokers can't seem to figure out email. Better to call.
 
I just used it for the first time...panned my office. It's a true panorama, not a wide angle "letterbox" shot...really cool! Try it, Con...just push the "pano" button and start shooting.

There's another really cool smartphone photo doodad...an app called MagLightPro When you click on it, it opens the camera and turns on the flashlight, floodlighting the subject where the light is low....which can come in VERY handy when you need to shoot something in a dark area...like the back side of an engine or locate a dropped item in a deep bilge.

Thanks Peggie...just tried the Pano and it looks better than I expected. Will have to try it when I'm back aboard.

Will also try the MagLightPro once aboard as well, although I find just using the flash works well.
 
Except that he wasn't an Aussie, he was a Kiwi. And he wasn't really even a Kiwi. He was a mentally disturbed employee who was using his bosses computer and log in to post his own deluded thoughts, while pretending he was his boss.
2 people involved? Some doubt about that imo.
 
OK. My turn. How about a rant on buyers? How about me driving 5 hours each way for serious buyers who don't know what the pointy end is called? How about 40 emails and then they buy through another broker and say "I didn't know you wanted to sell me that boat"? How about sellers that you advertise their boat for a year, show it, survey it and than find out the seller doesn't have clear title and the buyer walks, etc. What about sellers who don't respond when you have a buyer? How about a seller you bring four buyers to in two weeks time and suddenly they "cancel" their six month contract and sell by owner to one of your prospects?

The point is everyone/anyone can behave poorly. Don't be that person and it will all work out in the long run.
 
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OK. My turn. How about a rant on buyers? How about me driving 5 hours each way for serious buyers who don't know what the pointy end is called? How about 40 emails and then they buy through another broker and say "I didn't know you wanted to sell me that boat"? How about sellers that you advertise their boat for a year, show it, survey it and than find out the seller doesn't have clear title and the buyer walks, etc. What about sellers who don't respond when you have a buyer? How about a seller you bring four buyers to in two weeks time and suddenly they "cancel" their six month contract and sell by owner to one of your prospects?

The point is everyone/anyone can behave poorly. Don't be that person and it will all work out in the long run.

Start your own.thread.
 
Start your own.thread.

Easy there....I think he deserves a little latitude after his profession has been beaten to death for 6 pages.
 
OK. My turn. How about a rant on buyers? How about me driving 5 hours each way for serious buyers who don't know what the pointy end is called? How about 40 emails and then they buy through another broker and say "I didn't know you wanted to sell me that boat"? How about sellers that you advertise their boat for a year, show it, survey it and than find out the seller doesn't have clear title and the buyer walks, etc. What about sellers who don't respond when you have a buyer? How about a seller you bring four buyers to in two weeks time and suddenly they "cancel" their six month contract and sell by owner to one of your prospects?

The point is everyone/anyone can behave poorly. Don't be that person and it will all work out in the long run.

IMHO - Well put! Especially the ending!! Thanks! - Art
 
10 Commandments for Yacht Brokers

Not a broker but here is my biased opinion of what principles a broker should follow:

Thou shalt visit every boat prior to listing.


Thou shalt not accept listings outside a reasonable commute unless there is a local “showing” affiliate.


Thou shalt not accept listings that are clearly overpriced and unsellable.


Thou shalt provide the seller with recommendations on cleaning up and other maintenance measures to make the boat more sellable.


Thou shalt insist seller takes reasonable efforts to make boat presentable.


Thou shalt fairly represent the condition of the boat.


Thou shalt take pictures that are focused, clear, have sufficient lighting, recent, include all pertinent areas including engine room and adequately represent the features and condition of the boat.


Thou shalt mark pictures to identify what they are showing.


Thou shalt promptly return emails and telephone calls of potential buyers.


[FONT=&quot]Thou shalt recommend Craig’s List or eBay if a boat clearly belongs there. (Hope this doesn't include mt boat!)

(and the optional 11th Commandment, Thou shalt read TF.) [/FONT]
 
if brokers only listed beautiful boats where would the fixer upper or low price buyer shop?

Craigs List, Boat Yards, Ebay, Word of Mouth... ... ... :socool:

Seems it is perfectly OK for Broker to offer boats needing much TLC... as long as the boat's obvious needs are clearly stated before a buyer travels to see the boat. :ermm:

Not OK for broker to misrepresent the quality of a boat in ploy to lure an unsuspecting "newbie" boat buyer into a purchase. :nonono:

See Donsan post # 116 - Good list of commandments for boat brokers to adhere. :thumb:

Happy Boat-Find Daze! - Art :speed boat:
 
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