Anchor Insurance

FlyWright · Apr 4, 2016

markpierce said:
Al, sounds like lots of effort unless one had a high suspicion of an anchor hang-up.

I'm not worried, but I'm a self admitted belt and suspenders guy. I love redundancy. I also have a 50 ft length of poly on my rode's tag end...just in case it ever gets thrown over without a float. Just coverin' my bases.

ranger58sb · Apr 5, 2016

WesK said:
We all have different circumstances, but for me, cutting it loose is probably the best option. I might as well leave the entire rode and see if a diver can get it for me. It would be cheaper than a replacement rode and anchor.

Our rode is selected to mitigate dealing wit the mud around here, but...

An unexpected advantage of our rode system -- 25' chain and then 300' 8-plait rope -- is that I can easily cut the chain off the end, add a float to the chain, and return later if necessary. With a better diver. All of the rope is re-usable.

If we're anchored in 6-7 -- or maybe even 10' -- of water, I used to be able to free-dive that easily enough. Not sure, these days, haven't done that in years. And as I mentioned, can't see squat in the water around here.

Still, I could probably recover the anchor, eventually. Recover the chain or even replace it if useful, re-splice, all good.

-Chris

psneeld · Apr 5, 2016

Pgitug said:
If you carry a scuba tank on board with a hooka hose set up, no air compressor or motor required due to the tank, you can legally use that set up without a scuba certificate.

You can legally scuba without a certificate as far as I know unless it's some local law....

You just can't get tanks filled without a card as far as I know.

Plus my compressor is 1/3 the size of a tank and weighs half for storage considerations....though 20 feet of depth and I may be getting 1/2 breaths (haven't tried it past 6 feet yet)....may have to get a better compressor when headed for placed I may care to dive deeper.

jleonard · Apr 5, 2016

Puffin_NT32 said:
Pgitug,

Up here in New England, it's a pretty good practice when anchored in crowded anchorages, to deploy an anchor sentinel, a small float on a line attached to the crown eye of the anchor. You would normally set out enough sentinel line slightly more than the high water over your anchor. My sentinel float is painted fluorescent orange with my boat name printed on it. The sentinel shows other boaters where your anchor is, hopefully to avoid someone dropping their anchor on yours, or across your chain. If the sentinel line is strong enough, you could use it to pull a fouled anchor from the opposite direction. While anchored and fishing in craggy areas, it's a common practice here to use a sentinel. I've had to pull a fouled 22# Bruce out with the sentinel a couple of times.

I've been boating out of the Mystic area for close to 25 years anchored at Napatree hundreds of times and never saw anyone deploy a sentinel.
I don't think its a very common practice at all. Sorry

SCOTTEDAVIS · Apr 5, 2016

Depending on where you are you may get some help diving on your anchor.

Note, those are saltwater mangroves in the background.

Lawn lizards can and do roam in salt water for a bit looking for food before returning to fresh/brackish water. Don't do it at night when they feed.

FlyWright · Apr 5, 2016

SCOTTEDAVIS said:
Don't do it at night when they feed.

The may feed at night, but I'm betting they snack all day long. No thanks!!

Nomad Willy · Apr 5, 2016

You calling yourself a snack Al?

HiDHo · Apr 5, 2016

Anchor chain insurance.

HiDHo · Apr 5, 2016

Anchor insurance.

rwidman · Apr 5, 2016

I remember a story about a boater who dropped his car keys into the water at a boat ramp so he tried to dive for them breathing through a garden hose.

It didn't turn out well.

Puffin_NT32 · Apr 6, 2016

JLeanard. Sorry Jay. Got you beat. Been based out of Col. Willie Cove (WHBY) for past 47 tears.

I'll always set out my anchor float for an overnighter or long-term, in any crowded anchorage. Some examples, off Breezy Point in the Great Salt Pond, or in the small hole North of C53 beyond the Mystic Seaport, or the anchorage off Ida Lewis in Newport, and yes, Napatree. I'll see other boats with floats out, mostly live-aboards on trawlers. As for fishing, go to the rock piles Southeast of Fishers Island and most of the commercial guys will have floats out. I can't tell you the number of times I had neophyte boaters trying to drop an anchor on top of my anchor or chain in the Great Salt Pond. I swear there's a law somewhere that new boaters must go to the GSP to learn how to anchor. Great entertainment, except in a blow.

Steve Bedford · Apr 14, 2016

I have never tried this but a SuperMAX owner told me what he does to aid in retrieval:
1. Attaches a 1/4-3/8" braided line to the trip line hole.
2. Line is about 50' in length.
3. At the other bitter end, he has a small shackle and he attaches to the chain slightly before the 50' mark so there is no stress on the line.
4. As he retrieves the anchor, once the shackle is within reach, he unclips and controls the line as the chain continues to be brought in.
5. If the anchor comes up, he either unclips from the trip line hole or he actually keeps the line on the clip for the next anchorage.
6. If the anchor resists, he secures the line tight to the cleat, plays some of the chain back out so the shank is not being pulled upward. He then uses the vessel motor to trip the anchor free.

He claims it always works and he has never had the line foul on the anchor or wrap around the chain wher it would not easily unwind. I guess he feels that line is his insurance.
Steve
SuperMAX Anchors

Nomad Willy · Apr 14, 2016

That's a good one Steve. Wonder if he was the one that thunk it up? Creative thinking I'd say. But it sounds like he only anchors in very shallow water. Like 12' deep at 4-1 scope.

Steve Bedford · Apr 14, 2016

Not really. When the rode is straight up and down (and that is when you know the anchor is stuck) as long as the water depth is less than 45' (he has 5' from roller to surface of the water) he can get a hold of of the shackle. He told me he likes to anchor in no more than 40' so he has at least 5' to grab a hold of and tie off.
Steve
Super MAX Anchors

boatpoker · Apr 14, 2016

Steve Bedford said:
I have never tried this but a SuperMAX owner told me what he does to aid in retrieval:
1. Attaches a 1/4-3/8" braided line to the trip line hole.
2. Line is about 50' in length.
3. At the other bitter end, he has a small shackle and he attaches to the chain slightly before the 50' mark so there is no stress on the line.
4. As he retrieves the anchor, once the shackle is within reach, he unclips and controls the line as the chain continues to be brought in.
5. If the anchor comes up, he either unclips from the trip line hole or he actually keeps the line on the clip for the next anchorage.
6. If the anchor resists, he secures the line tight to the cleat, plays some of the chain back out so the shank is not being pulled upward. He then uses the vessel motor to trip the anchor free.

He claims it always works and he has never had the line foul on the anchor or wrap around the chain wher it would not easily unwind. I guess he feels that line is his insurance.
Steve
SuperMAX Anchors

A new one to me ... pretty smart. I have no shame in stealing good ideas

FlyWright · Apr 14, 2016

Steve Bedford said:
Not really. When the rode is straight up and down (and that is when you know the anchor is stuck) as long as the water depth is less than 45' (he has 5' from roller to surface of the water) he can get a hold of of the shackle. He told me he likes to anchor in no more than 40' so he has at least 5' to grab a hold of and tie off.
Steve
Super MAX Anchors

That's very similar to my thoughts on this thread on post #18.

Trawler Forum - View Single Post - Anchor Insurance

A difference is that I am considering connecting the 50 ft release line along the chain rode with frangible connectors like string or very small frangible zip ties so that it is always present when needed but will not require special handling when deploying or retrieving the anchor.

dhays · Apr 14, 2016

FlyWright said:
That's very similar to my thoughts on this thread on post #18.

Trawler Forum - View Single Post - Anchor Insurance

A difference is that I am considering connecting the 50 ft release line along the chain rode with frangible connectors like string or very small frangible zip ties so that it is always present when needed but will not require special handling when deploying or retrieving the anchor.

I recall reading your idea before, and I don't see how that would work well. I am likely missing something.

The ties or string would need to be very lightweight in order for you to break them. Say you connect the line to the chain 5 feet from the anchor and you are in 30 feet of water. You bring the chain vertical and discover it is fouled. You then let out chain and try to break the string by pulling the line. If the string isn't weak enough, it won't break you will simply be pulling up the chain. If it is weak enough to break, I fear that just the friction of going through the windless and being stored in the anchor locker with the chain would be enough to break it, making the idea less than useful.

Nomad Willy · Apr 14, 2016

I agree Dave.
And Steve Bedford says the guy didn't have tangleing problems.
I see the depth scenairo now.
Too bad I can't use it w my line rode.

caltexflanc · Apr 14, 2016

Surprised none of the PNW guys have mentioned using an anchor bouy retrival system. It's popular out here too for guys doing deep water fishing. Lots of You Tube videos demonstrating . It was hard for e to get my head around how it worked until I went salmon fishing once woth a guy who swore by it. Pretty darn slick, and fast!
Hinz discusses it in his book as well.

Anchor Ring | Anchor Retrieval

I had all the gear to do it on my Hatt, but never used it in lieu of other tricks.

Steve Bedford · Apr 14, 2016

"the guy didn't have tangleing problems"

I think the key to his success is having the shackle on the "trip line" set at a link in the chain that does not allow tension on the line but not too loose to flap and wrap around the chain. I think an investigation is in order.
I recalled asking him why he did not attach the line to the chain and he said he did not want to mess with it in his windlass and he never had a problem his way. I don't know if the little cheap Harbor Freight zip ties would break away or not. They seem to break when I don't want them to and don't break when I want them to! He also did not like the trip line hanging free from a float because he was around crabbers who did not like the floats in their way.

Steve Bedford · Apr 14, 2016

I think your idea has merit. I know someone posted that he felt the zip ties would not break free. I don't know about that if you use the little ones. The chain weighs a lot! I am also not sure the line abs zip tie will bind up in the windlass. I have zip ties to indicate length on my chain and that works fine. I think I may try your idea as well. It would be nice if it worked because it would be a real benefit to always have a trip line easy to use and access when you need it and out of the way when you don't. Good post and good idea.
Steve
SuperMAX Anchors.

FlyWright · Apr 14, 2016

That was exactly my point, Steve. Thanks for clearly expressing it. It's there when you need it and not a bother in normal everyday operation.

I think 1/8 inch Amsteel could be well suited for this job. Thin, strong, resistant to UV and abrasion, durable and affordable. Maybe if it was just woven into the links every 5 ft or so it might just allow the slack chain to fall to the bottom when the trip line is pulled taut. If so, no need for breakaway features.

Has anyone got an extra 100 ft of 1/8 inch Amsteel Blue I can play with on my anchor?

Capt.Bill11 · Apr 15, 2016

I don't see how it would work right with the line woven into the chain.

Nor do I thing you'd want to use line as small as 1/8" no matter how strong it was. To small a diameter.

FlyWright · Apr 16, 2016

Capt.Bill11 said:
I don't see how it would work right with the line woven into the chain.

Nor do I thing you'd want to use line as small as 1/8" no matter how strong it was. To small a diameter.

You may very well be right, Bill. I have my doubts, too...but the only way I'm gonna find out is to build it and see if it works.

The tensile strength of the Amsteel Blue is about 2500 lbs. I think that might be sufficient to trip a 33 lb anchor with 50 ft of 5/16 G4 chain. At a lb per foot plus the 33 lb anchor weight, that shouldn't weigh more than 100 lbs, right?

Not that it matters to the discussion but for comparison, the working load limit on the 5/16 G4 chain is about 3900 lbs and the 8-ply Brait is about 12,200.

Anchor Insurance

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