Can't even really say that based on a few words from a near stranger. It "sounds like" the boat is a 46 CHB in Jupiter; maybe we'll hear from the broker.
c'mon Hawg, be fair, at least quote the whole sentence.
Broker malpractice ?
- Thread starter BinkleyBoat
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c'mon Hawg, be fair, at least quote the whole sentence.
Ok.
I agree with the second part but still can't call the character of the broker based on a one sided post from a near stranger.
A near stranger who "sounds like" he just might not like brokers.
Any brokers.
Anywhere.
BinkleyBoat
Senior Member
Exactly right. Cash. The cash comes out of your account when the check is drawn. Cash. I handed the broker cash. He held the "cash" and when the deal failed he put the "cash" into a 1st class envelop and stuck a first class stamp on it and put it in the outgoing mail, "cash". Not to mention the cash had his name and business name written on it which would require him to endorse it and deposit it to confirm that I indeed made a deposit. But no he decided to hold the "cash" and then mail it back to me via USPS, first class. No tracker, no certification or any other way to assure delivery to the proper person.
So, I really do not see where I have been negligent in this transaction. I signed a contract and lived up my end. Now there is a large some of "cash" floating around the USPS ( or not ) and. I'm holding the bag.
Seems a bit off the mark, me thinks.
BinkleyBoat
Senior Member
A near stranger who "sounds like" he just might not like brokers.
Any brokers.
Anywhere.
Correct. Before making conclusions you need to walk that mile in my shoes. You have no idea the crap brokers have pulled on me.
State of broker and of boat?
BinkleyBoat
Senior Member
Your post assumes I did not do that. The issue is the way he decided to return my deposit and the fact that he didn't bother to deposit the check, that I handed to him. If I had lost the check on the way to his office, my bad, my potential loss. I certainly would not put 50 100$ bills in a envelope and mail it first class. He did. Would you?
The brokers " malfeasance " is the fact that he did not follow proper guidelines and now the loss becomes mine. That is the issue.
BinkleyBoat
Senior Member
Thanks and yes I have been there. Contact today and hopefully some interaction tomorrow.
Thanks for your support.
I'd be as annoyed with the actions as you. However, unless I'm missing something, we haven't yet established that you suffered a loss. Did you call your bank today? What did they say about whether the cashier's check had cleared or not? What did they say about how you'd go about recovering your money?
BruceK
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Assuming the broker did what he said, he did mail you "a check". Turns out it was not his check, but the unbanked "cashiers check" you sent him. Query he was being a smart ass, or just lost interest as the deal fell over.
I had a broker not bank my personal deposit cheque,when we settled he returned the cheque and I paid the full price, ignoring it. Not banking the cheque could suggest doubt about the deal completing.
At one time Banks here could not even stop payment of their own checks which we call a "Bank Cheque",and more or less equate to your cashiers check, without there being an enabling court injunction. They were/are(?) regarded as virtually equivalent to cash. Moonstruck`s post indicates stopping payment is not done lightly,sounds like you have enough material, presumably documented, to support cancellation. Namely, that the deal it relates to failed.
Having a difficult to stop "cashiers check" floating around somewhere, lost in transit, mislaid somewhere, or anywhere else, is not good. You need the Bank to cancel it asap. Presuming this was a 10% deposit or thereabouts, the Bank fee is not a consideration but, based on my limited understanding of US processes gleaned from other posts, urgency is.
kulas44
Guru
Still not "cash" just a peice of paper "garrantying" cash. With the brokers name on it. The only person who can "cash" it is the person who's name is on it. Even if you did loose it and someone else tried cash it, the entity cashing it would be required to ask for proper ID. Dont worry it'll be ok. I do understand where your coming from though.
Yes, I had assumed you did not confirm cheque clearance at your bank. I thought that was pretty obvious or you would have said so.
Was the cheque cashed ?
BinkleyBoat
Senior Member
Florida x 2. Hawg nailed the boat in post 30.
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Here are the general rules on recovery of a lost or stolen cashier's check.
After determining it has not cleared, the next thing you do is notify the bank so they'll remove their guarantee of funds and honoring the check.
Then you file a "Declaration of Loss" with the bank. You're claiming the funds and doing so under penalty of perjury. You declare you don't have the check and you're not going to find it.
The Declaration of Loss is a claim you're making on the funds. They then become your funds, but you won't receive them until 90 days after you file the declaration of loss.
After determining it has not cleared, the next thing you do is notify the bank so they'll remove their guarantee of funds and honoring the check.
Then you file a "Declaration of Loss" with the bank. You're claiming the funds and doing so under penalty of perjury. You declare you don't have the check and you're not going to find it.
The Declaration of Loss is a claim you're making on the funds. They then become your funds, but you won't receive them until 90 days after you file the declaration of loss.
YACHT AND SHIP BROKERS
View Entire Chapter
326.005 Escrow depository, closing transactions.—
(1) A broker shall place any funds received pursuant to a transaction into a trust account in a savings and loan association, bank, trust company, or other financial institution located in this state having a net worth in excess of $5 million until he or she disburses such funds. A separate record shall be maintained of all such moneys received and the disposition thereof.
(2) At the closing of a transaction in which title to a yacht is transferred, a broker shall provide the seller and purchaser with an itemized closing statement, including the selling price and all charges and credits, a description of any yachts exchanged, and the amount of any consideration. If the transaction is closed through escrow and the escrow holder renders a closing statement which reveals such information, that shall be deemed compliance with this subsection on the part of the licensed broker.
(3) A broker who intentionally fails to comply with the provisions of this section concerning the establishment of a trust account, deposits of funds into a trust account, and withdrawal therefrom, commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. The failure to establish a trust account or to place funds therein as required in this section is prima facie evidence of an intentional and purposeful violation of this section.
http://www.myfloridalicense.com/dbpr/lsc/documents/statutes/YSRules.pdf
Brokers are bonded in Florida, $25k for the aggregate broker bond and $10k for the salesperson.
First thing is to determine if check was cashed or deposited. Second is to either notify the state or require the broker to notify the surety company or both.
Once I found out from the bank if it had cleared, which I would have found out today and don't know why Binkley hasn't, I would have met with my attorney as well.
We're talking a few days here, with a weekend in the middle. I don't know if anything is even lost, or missing in the mail, let alone absconded with.
It'll show up or get sorted out and the only harm in the end is a bunch of sore knees.
BinkleyBoat
Senior Member
Nope. Not cashed. And the stink pie part is the bank will not stop payment and refund the funds to me until I find a bondsman that will write a surety bond ( that I have to pay for ) to guarantee that the funds have not been collected by another entity.
So, alas I think the whole process stinks. Broker screws up, I pay. Broker misrepresents a boat, I pay. There has to be a better way.
Thought some enterprising entrepreneurs would have a good shot at starting a brokers "Angie's List ". Could be a market there. Brokers have cost me thousands over the last 10 months. But I am reluctant to expound on that because some here would decide I have it out for brokers. I really don't, but I am getting very discouraged about this process. It's buyer beware on steroids.
After this is finished I'll post a recap of my broker tribulations. I'll even name names and post the links to the boats. I've got stories that will curl your hair.
BinkleyBoat
Senior Member
Thanks Band B.
I have already notified the State authorities.
Still waiting for a reply. I needed the cited law to make my case with the broker and get this resolved. Many thanks.
BB
I have already notified the State authorities.
Still waiting for a reply. I needed the cited law to make my case with the broker and get this resolved. Many thanks.
BB
One thing we've discussed here previously and I've made my opinion known is that I would not get a cashier's check for a deposit on a boat. I would only consider a check or a wire transfer, and generally only a check. In general, a Cashier's check would never leave my hands unless completing a deal and closing and even then it's not my preferred method. I've never heard of a realtor requiring one on a home. There is zero reason for a boat broker to require one. It doesn't assure anyone of your plans as until it passes survey and sea trial to your satisfaction, you are free to back out of the transaction. It clearly does nothing for the seller as they don't get it.
The law is readily available on the web. Glad to have linked you.
BinkleyBoat
Senior Member
Many thanks to Band B for cutting to the chase. This is the reason this venue is one off our best tools to resolve problems.
3) A broker who intentionally fails to comply with the provisions of this section concerning the establishment of a trust account, deposits of funds into a trust account, and withdrawal therefrom, commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. The failure to establish a trust account or to place funds therein as required in this section is prima facie evidence of an intentional and purposeful violation of this section.
BRAVO
3) A broker who intentionally fails to comply with the provisions of this section concerning the establishment of a trust account, deposits of funds into a trust account, and withdrawal therefrom, commits a felony of the third degree, punishable as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084. The failure to establish a trust account or to place funds therein as required in this section is prima facie evidence of an intentional and purposeful violation of this section.
BRAVO
Dougcole
Guru
B and B is right on the money here. Get a buyer's broker, they work for you and don't cost you a dime.
I highly recommend Joe Hamilton at Advantage Yacht. He works out of Stuart but will cover the whole state. He is 100% honest and a true professional. PM me if you want his contact info.
RT Firefly
Enigma
Greetings,
I highly recommend our very own "yachtbrokerguy" Tucker Fallon". He attended a sea trial with us in Long Island NY, also one in Ft. Meyers FL and flew to Puerto Rico, at our expense, of course, to check out another boat for us.
I highly recommend our very own "yachtbrokerguy" Tucker Fallon". He attended a sea trial with us in Long Island NY, also one in Ft. Meyers FL and flew to Puerto Rico, at our expense, of course, to check out another boat for us.
markpierce
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Using third parties to issue a check (as in a cashier's check) leaves one distant from knowing the status of the check and any recovery. If it's merely a deposit and there is no immediate transfer of ownership, a personal check should be sufficient.
BruceK
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I suggest you concentrate on resolving the cheque issue, you need to mitigate the loss best you can. Retribution on the broker can follow. You won`t know what he cost you by not negotiating the cheque until you`ve finalized the cheque issue, especially as it seems you may incur some expenses. Sending a cashiers check by ordinary mail, with the risk it gets lost, and the problem that creates, is at the very least,very silly.
It's been around for a couple of years with about a thousand broker reviews today - it would be interesting to know if your broker had a previous review:
http://www.eboatcards.com/services-boat-brokers/record-list
timjet
Guru
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Good advice!
After this is resolved a letter to the state agency that licenses brokers and salesman explaining the details and the financial cost to you would be in order with a copy to the broker.
Then perhaps a rating for this broker on Active Captain.
BinkleyBoat
Senior Member
Thanks. He's not on it, but soon will be. And I am a member of EBCards, duh.
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