Broker malpractice ?

We canceled a deal on a boat purchase, the boat failed the survey. The broker delayed refunding our deposit for 7/10 days and when he finally did we said he mailed a check. 8 days later, no check. I ask him to stop payment on the check and reissue a new one and Fed X it.
He advised me he never deposited the cashiers check that I originally handed him, he just put it in an envelope and mailed it back to me. Now it's lost and my responsibility, according to him.
So, what do you think. My problem or his. IMO he mishandled my funds and the responsibility to make this right is his. In the best case circumstance I will now have to pay to stop payment on my original check, worst case I just lost my deposit.
Need some wisdom from the great forum garu's please.

BB.

Greetings,
Mr. BB. There are a couple of brokers that post on TF. I hope they can give you a more appropriate answer than: Post his name and business and sue the SOB. It is most definitely his fault IMO. I would also get in touch with the issuing bank and see what they suggest.

Since his story changed from I mailed the check to I returned your check I don't believe him.


Ask your bank if the check was paid and for a copy of the endorsement on back.

You definitely shouldn't be out the deposit. You can go to your bank and cancel the check, and if they say it's been cashed, then they'll give you a copy of the check image and you can go to him and demand he refund you (or sue, and possibly report the fraud to the police).

Report him to the appropriate state licensing agency. They have the ability to remove his license and put him out of business.

I thought these guys subscribed or belonged to some sort of professional over site organization? I think they are regulated by the state. Your thoughts?

I would have filed suit already.

Couple things don't quite fit for me but I'll leave that for now.

From the timeline given, this all began close to a month ago, right?

Start with the issuing bank and work backwards. Not cashed, stop payment, end of story. If cashed and what you say is true, I'm sure the bank will work with you to a degree to find out the who, when, where. If fraud or theft is suspected, they should act on that or advise you to contact LE. If it was deposited to the broker, then "ah, gee, sorry, I forgot" probably applies and you go sit in his office until he gives you cash or a certified form of payment.

If you are too far away to go in person, use e-transfer.

MYTraveler said:

I would have filed suit already.

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Based on what?

Finding a broker who does not lie is not fun. when you contact a broker, interview him. get referrals. put his name/company on the web and ask opinions. Plus praise those who are honest. Tell them going in the door, one lie and we are done. I will say, Bob Starr and Chuck Grice at Virgina Yacht Brokers are very good. 757 714 1866. Interview them. Look at where they work.

I do intend to trace the check and stop payment if possible. My understanding is the broker is required to place the funds into an escrow account upon receipt.
By not doing this and combined with the fact that he is implying he has no responsibility for the handling of these funds he has placed the responsibility of the "lost" check on me. When in fact his mis-handling of the funds created the issue to begin with. At the very least I have lost the funds that will cost to stop payment and that may be nothing in compairison to the total but it is in fact a loss incurred to me by a shall he say ' a less than honest' broker.
And of course, I'm getting very tired of dealing with flim flam brokers. But I don't want to bias this discussion. We the buyer have to follow a procedure established by brokers to purchase. They seem to be able to act without regard to what is proper or prudent. Would you put a certified check ( thousands of dollars ) in the US mail without tracking, certification or any other means to insure delivery and then tell the recipient 8 days later; Oh, well I mailed it so its your check and your problem. I'll let you know if it's returned here.
IOM that's pure and simple "fertilizer" in lieu of a better term.
And again at the risk of biasing this issue. Over the period of 10 months of looking for the right boat and dealing with "yacht brokers", by far and away the worst part of this whole process has been the "brokers".

BB

Ron T; said:

Virgina Yacht Brokers

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Sorry and I know we all do it but that is hilarious.

Ron T said:

Finding a broker who does not lie is not fun. when you contact a broker, interview him. get referrals. put his name/company on the web and ask opinions. Plus praise those who are honest. Tell them going in the door, one lie and we are done. I will say, Bob Starr and Chuck Grice at Virgina Yacht Brokers are very good. 757 714 1866. Interview them. Look at where they work.

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Actually Ron we did do that. We didn't interview his boss though and he is the problem. He took our check and held it rather than deposit it. And I would think the boss would be good actor in this transaction. My bad.

Devils advocate for one item, holding rather than depositing the check.

Real estate brokers are required by law to have trust accounts and commingling of funds is close to the number one way a broker can get into legal trouble. It's so easy to do in fact that in my area it has been common practice to hold all earnest money deposit checks in the office safe rather than deposit them. They either will be delivered to the escrow company or returned to the client depending upon the outcome of the purchase offer.

The law states brokers are required to have trust accounts, the law does not require anything to be held in them. So long as the check was not cashed no crime occurred.

Is the broker in your case an unreliable scum bag? Sounds like it.

Is his behavior criminal? No

BLINK:

If the Broker belongs to one or both of these groups, you may have a chat with them. I do not know what they can do for you but it would not hurt to have a chat with them to get their input on what to do. You also could have a lawyer send him a letter (which will cost a few bucks) telling him that you will take him to court. That’s worth a shoot as well.


All the best and good luck too you.

Society of Accredited Marine Surveyors (SAMS)
National Association of Marine Surveyors (NAMS

Happy Cruising too you.
Cheers
H. Foster

BinkleyBoat said:

I thought these guys subscribed or belonged to some sort of professional over site organization? I think they are regulated by the state. Your thoughts?

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BinkleyBoat said:

We canceled a deal on a boat purchase, the boat failed the survey. The broker delayed refunding our deposit for 7/10 days and when he finally did we said he mailed a check. 8 days later, no check. I ask him to stop payment on the check and reissue a new one and Fed X it.
He advised me he never deposited the cashiers check that I originally handed him, he just put it in an envelope and mailed it back to me. Now it's lost and my responsibility, according to him.
So, what do you think. My problem or his. IMO he mishandled my funds and the responsibility to make this right is his. In the best case circumstance I will now have to pay to stop payment on my original check, worst case I just lost my deposit.
Need some wisdom from the great forum garu's please.

BB.

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I take it you never noticed whether the money did or did not leave your account during that time?

If the check was never cashed and no money was taken out of you account, move on.

If there is no intent to deposit the check why take it in the first place?
What is the purpose of a deposit if you have no idea if it is real?

It was a cashier's check. My bank makes me pay for them when they give it to me.

bcam said:

It was a cashier's check. My bank makes me pay for them when they give it to me.

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Yep...to my knowledge there is no stop payment on it. It has already been paid for.

There is people in my area who claim to be "Certified Professional Yacht Brokers". Now who does the certifying is beyond me. But go to this broker's website and see if they claim to be a part of any standardized broker organization. If so, get after it. Also look into the laws the brokerage is in and see if he broke any.

I am sorry to hear about this. I know several brokers and know them to be honest.
Finding out if the check was cashed and if so, getting a copy of it front and back is the first step. You may be able with the help of your bank, to trace the money to the place the check was cashed. I would get a written confirmation of that fact. Each state has its own rules on broker registration. In my state it is the Secretary of State's office. You might check to see if the broker is incorporated and if so, who the officers are. I would send a certified letter to them outlining what happened and requesting a refund. How deposits are to be handled may be different in your state. Here, brokers have to be registered with the state. You should also go to the police and file a theft report. If there is a Better Business Bureau, I would file a complaint there. Your state's Attorney General may have a consumer protection office and I would file a report there. Hiring a lawyer to help you is probably a good idea. They generally can wind through the maze, and frequently the fact that you get one may get the broker to cough up the dough. Good luck

Capt.Bill11 said:

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+4
Another organization that polices themselves.

Baker said:

Yep...to my knowledge there is no stop payment on it. It has already been paid for.

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Correct, no "stop payment" in the traditional sense but that piece of paper has to find its way back to the originating bank to complete the circle.

IOW, "your" money is still sitting in the banks account (not yours) waiting to be claimed; by you, the broker, the janitor or the mail carrier. If there is a smell attached, the bank "should" engage on it. That is, to a degree, how it works up here and the bank may sit on it for weeks before actually moving.

The one issue I didn't see covered was "what state is the broker in and/or was the boat in?" Two states require broker and agent licensing, Florida and California. If Florida, you definitely have recourse through a state agency, but I'd think the immediate key is gathering the facts and finding out if the check was put into their account or not.

Yacht & Ship Licensing

The Florida licensing is through the Division of Condominiums, Timeshares, and Mobile Homes. Here is a link on enforcement and complaints through the Yacht and Ship Brokers section.

Yacht & Ship Enforcement

Hawgwash said:

Correct, no "stop payment" in the traditional sense but that piece of paper has to find its way back to the originating bank to complete the circle.

IOW, "your" money is still sitting in the banks account (not yours) waiting to be claimed; by you, the broker, the janitor or the mail carrier. If there is a smell attached, the bank "should" engage on it. That is, to a degree, how it works up here and the bank may sit on it for weeks before actually moving.

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I called regions and they told me as long as a cashiers check hasnt been cashed and they were the issuing bank, they can cancel it for a small fee.

Havent you even called your own bank yet?

I think you have jumped the gun with this thread. Sounds like a bad attitude on the part of the broker but you have no evidence of malfeasance. First thing I would have done is call the bank to find the status of the cashiers cheque. If it had been cashed, then and only then would I start a thread like this but for the moment .........

Baker said:

Yep...to my knowledge there is no stop payment on it. It has already been paid for.

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There is a slight difference between a cashiers check and a certified check. Here is the skinny.

Certified Check or Cashier’s Check -- Which Is Better for You?

With all those big guns you have in America the answer should be so simple or are the guns just for display and never have intent to use them

boatpoker; said:

Sounds like a bad attitude on the part of the broker.

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Can't even really say that based on a few words from a near stranger. It "sounds like" the boat is a 46 CHB in Jupiter; maybe we'll hear from the broker.