New Member- MT 49 Survey a disaster. Any advice

Shaunc,

The best $1,200.00 I ever spent was for a Mainship 40 that failed survey. Heed the advice.

Rob

We surveyed three, count 'em, three boats before we settled on our Defever 44. And given that we lived in Maryland and all the boats were in Florida and I travelled down for each survey, we had a lot more money spent than you have. Money well spent. Sometimes one gets lucky and finds a good one straightaway, more often that's not the case. We ended up with a good vessel. That boat is a never-ending money pit.

Walk away.

The composting heads should be a deal breaker alone.

The survey is nothing special. Just your average quoting ABBS CYA blah, blah for the most part.

This has been an amazing response and such great input and feed back.
As neewbie I am amazed how great the detailed input has been.
Thank you all.
I am looking to buy and if anyone has a lead please feel free to let me know.
To sum up what we(Mrs) wants is a boat full of character. She says its like owning a wooden boat with out the wooden hull.

I will keep everyone posted as to my search. I have found a few that are 45-50ft and have clean surveys for under 65k, so I will be looking into those.

Capt.Bill11 said:

Walk away.

The composting heads should be a deal breaker alone.

The survey is nothing special. Just your average quoting ABBS CYA blah, blah for the most part.

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Thats quite an insight from just a few paragraphs of a twenty page report.
By the way what are ABBS and CYA ?

Hawgwash said:

Not all is lost either, he got to see the great white north in the middle of the winter. Some people spill that much on a weekend in Whistler.

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Whistler for the weekend I'll take anytime. Hamilton? Ehh, not so much

Greetings,
Mr. S. Most of us old farts have nothing better to do with our time. We love spending other peoples money...

Your spider sense is tingling. Your surveyor is confirming. You already know the answer to your question.

For what it worth. Everyone is spot on with their replies. I purchased an Albin 43 years ago that had a bad survey. I spent 20k plus buying new engines from Bob Smith, months on systems that were out of date, and then redid the hull because of the famous blisters. I did all the work myself and it took 6 months full time to do the work. If I had it to do over again I would of found a better surveyor. We fell in love with the boat, something you should never do.

Shaunc said:

Boatpoker, yes it was, I asked the surveyor for it recently and I did find out the current owner did buy it and did do some upgrades to do the loop, but its not worth double what he paid for it. Its listed in CAD so the price changes with the exchange rate.
The electrical is a rats nest and needs to be ripped out and redone. The current owner/ owners have added and spliced all kinds of crap all over the place.

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If you buy it, be prepared for the avalanche of messed up stuff your surveyer didn't find.

I think you already know what to do, from all the excellent advice and observations from everyone who already responded. Do it.
However I have just one question that is bugging me, you were on the boat, did you look closely at the salon windows? They look so much like residential house type sliders, maybe vinyl.
Any observations?
As an aside we looked at lots and lots of boats before our boat found us. Don't rush the journey.

Bill

I think you're going to run into a little bit of a problem. This may not make very many people happy but I don't think you're going to find a really great 50 foot boat for $100,000 or thereabouts.

you might, with enough searching, if you are Johnny on the spot buy a great boat right as it's listed. I just honestly think that the boats in that price range in that size range are generally boats that are going to need some help.

I don't want to discourage you, and I think if you are willing to spend more money you can get a better maintained boat, or if you're willing to get a smaller boat for that money you can get a very good example.

Have patience! They are out there. Don't buy the repair everything vessel. Keep looking at Yachtworld. Google the make and model you are looking for. There was a nice wide body MT pilot house for sale in Baltimore Harbor. Call Bob Starr at Virgina Yacht Brokers. Square shooter. Walk away from the $4000. It can cost you ten times more to bring her back to good condition. 90 percent of brokers will sell you a log and tell you it's a yacht. Don't rush!

boatpoker said:

Thats quite an insight from just a few paragraphs of a twenty page report.
By the way what are ABBS and CYA ?

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Hey I call'm like I see'm.

A lot looked like the standard ABBS and CYA stuff you see on most surveys.

ABBS = ABYC BS

CYA = (you really don't know this one? )

20? I wonder how many actually spoke to real specifics and that weren't just the standard generalizations and disclaimers I see in most surveys.

What can I say, I'm pretty jaded when it comes to surveys and surveyors.

Mea culpa. Maybe.

Tuttouomo; said:

...did you look closely at the salon windows? They look so much like residential house type sliders, maybe vinyl.

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500 hours different port to starboard and 2000 hours between listing and meters.

Somebody should do the broker and owner a favor and send them a link to this thread.

Thanks Ron T I will get in touch with him.
I am willing to go down in size for a better quality boat, maybe a spend a little more but not much more.
Ksandrs, we have seen a few boats out your way, but a long way from Florida.
Bill, yes he had vinyl window installed, the apparently were RV windows and seem to work really well.

I am concerned about the high hours on the engines, over 7500 hours, but I am being continuously told that they are Lehmans so don't worry, they have many hours left in them.

Marine engines don't only age with hours, they are approaching 40 years old with sketchy maintenance in a hostile environment.

Start considering what compromises you will accept.
Look at the whole package, the whole boat.
As already asked -do you want a project or do you want to use the boat?

Initially I really wanted a full walk-around...so, I got a widebody--poof, compromised away one of the top items on my list.

As far as "patience" that only goes so far. I was looking for 3 years and finally I decided I looked enough, I needed to do something.

Good Luck with your search...remember you aren't starting all over. Look at all you have learned.

Ken

ksanders said:

I think you're going to run into a little bit of a problem. This may not make very many people happy but I don't think you're going to find a really great 50 foot boat for $100,000 or thereabouts.

you might, with enough searching, if you are Johnny on the spot buy a great boat right as it's listed. I just honestly think that the boats in that price range in that size range are generally boats that are going to need some help.

I don't want to discourage you, and I think if you are willing to spend more money you can get a better maintained boat, or if you're willing to get a smaller boat for that money you can get a very good example.

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Kevin. That's why I listed some Bayliners, Mainship, Cheoy Lee, MT and Tolly that ranged from $115k to $149k so some probably available as low as $100k or maybe a little under. That's one of many reasons Bayliner is so popular. If I'm planning on crossing the Atlantic, not the boat I'd choose, but for coastal, lake, and river cruising, they are very good boats plus he can get newer in those brands in the same price range he started.

Shaunc said:

I am concerned about the high hours on the engines, over 7500 hours, but I am being continuously told that they are Lehmans so don't worry, they have many hours left in them.

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7500 is getting up there,definitely a factor to consider despite the reputation for longevity. Mine at age 35 have 2200 hours, I hear of 10000-12000 hours, especially in charter boats which get more use and less cold starts.

Fresh water Great Lakes boats are the way to go. With the Canadian Dollarette in the toilet, there are some bargains up here. Besides you'd get to run her home on her own bottom. Don't be afraid to put a 100k offer on a boat asking $150k.

Capt.Bill11 said:

What can I say, I'm pretty jaded when it comes to surveys and surveyors.

Mea culpa. Maybe.

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I too am somewhat jaded about surveyors. Of the 250 surveyors in Ontario, Shaunc picked one of the six that I personally would hire. I'll be doing the survey on Peters boat next week. I won't cut him any slack at all When he does my insurance survey in June, he'll be looking for revenge

BoatPoker
Any leads would be grateful. I should have the mechanical survey back in a week so I will know how that turned out.
BandB, thanks for those and I will be setting some up some time to look at some of those close by.
Is yachtworld the best site to look for boats?

Shaunc said:

She did have a list of requirements:
Europa style
NO V berth for master
Must have a full queen bed, that is accessible from both sides.
Must have a homely traditional feel
MUST be safe for young grand babies.

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Just in case, and FWIW... if by "V berth" you simply meant a berth in the bow... and not necessarily an actual V, with or without an insert...

It's easy enough to find bow-located master with a full queen bed, with access from both sides.

(Well, mostly. Our mattress is shaped a bit, up toward the bow and down at the foot, not a perfect 60" x 80" rectangular household size... but it's pretty much a queen bed, needs queens-sized sheets, etc.).

-Chris

I am with Kevin Sanders on this one....a nice, ready to cruise 40 for $100,000 is a rare find.

And no matter the boat, just the misc. Will cost another $10,000. And at least a couple grand in searching, survey, taxes, registrations,....etc...etc.

When looking for $100,000 boats, $4000 searching and surveys is expected, if it hurts, then suprised repairs is really going to.

Better to go way smaller and enjoy cruising, so buy top condition in a much smaller boat.

or if you're willing to get a smaller boat for that money you can get a very good example. - Kevin

Better to go way smaller and enjoy cruising, so buy top condition in a much smaller boat. - psneeld

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What Keven & psneeld said. Or, you can do what we did, look at the older, larger cruisers that need lots of work, slowly realize that we don't want to be working on a boat but cruising on a boat - so then move on to looking at the smaller Camanos & Prairie trawlers that are much newer, and then say eff it, we are gonna spend more than double what we originally wanted to spend, and get a new boat.

It's amazing how easily money can be raised in order to do what you want to do before you get too old to do it. Hubby Dan did it by selling one of our rental houses.
______________
Pea
The waiting is the hardest part

Shaunc said:

BoatPoker
Any leads would be grateful. I should have the mechanical survey back in a week so I will know how that turned out.
BandB, thanks for those and I will be setting some up some time to look at some of those close by.
Is yachtworld the best site to look for boats?

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Get a buyer's broker. Don't go chasing one by one with no one on your side. Let them assist you, locate the boats for you.

there are a few 43' Hatteras double cabin in the 100,000. range in good shape. invest a dime and talk to Bob Starr at 757 714 1866. Do you really want to continue with old broker who you know lied to you. No second chance. One lie and you say good by.

FWIW - I know 2 of the three 47 Bayliner's in post #12 very well and the third a bit better than some.
There are reasons why they are listed for below similar boats and also why there are mostly pictures of bedspreads and counters and not engines and running gear.
If someone is really interested in one of them perhaps send me a PM and I will try and share what I know and some pictures of them they do not post.


If you are not looking for a project find a boat in great condition as it will save you time and aggravation in the long run.


Good luck with your search

Chaunc, take a look at Marine Survey 101. It may help you weed out the bad ones before you spend more on a survey.