How much is too much?

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FF said:
"a diesel may cost 3X-4X the price but could easily last 3X-4X as long, disregarding the peripherals."

Very true but on rec boats I find I am yet to find a larger engine that was simply worn out.

KILLED ! Not stored properly, water backup in the exhaust , dozens of reasons for DEATH , but not wear.

A gas engine in a displacement boat will frequently go 4000 hours with all the low maint costs gas provides.

Paying 3x to 4x to perhaps get 10,000 hours is expensive insurance , esp at 200 hours of use a year.
Click to expand...

Well put... and, so very true!

General myths (as well as wishes and hopes) in boating too often pervade power train accoutrements.

There are many reasons to justify using/having gasoline or diesel engines. As is often stated: "Boats are a big package of compromises". Best to study closely before making choices.
 
Gas boats are usually much lighter and considerably dependant on their lightness. That limits how much fuel they carry and thus their range ... more so than fuel burn. My 30' trawler has 100 gal of fuel. Very few gas 30' boats carry 100 gal of fuel.

By the way my 87 Nissan has 285 thousand miles on it and that is 5 or 6,000 hours running time.
 
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Speaking from experience of rusting engines, well cylinders rust when engines sit. Water in the air condenses on metal. Boat engines may sit for months and over time rust then the rust gets scraped off when started , then they sit and rust again, over and over this happens. No matter what position engine stops at, some valves are open to the air.
Rust wears down the parts as they move. Most worn engines will run anyway.

I have been painting the inside surfaces of stamped metal parts for years to keep them from rusting. Valve covers are especially bad. They were on mine. Just primer paint from Walmart works fine. I have yet to see engine oil dissolve the paint. On top of primer, I have also spray painted gloss paint and that is also been fine. Parts taken out years later look like the day I painted them.
 
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"I recall one recent poster who owned a gas boat asking where fuel stops were because he/she realized they had limited range with their gas boat."

A gas powered boat is efficient at low RPM and lots of the loop is speed restricted to 10 Klicks,5 or 6 NM/h

AT plaining open water speeds yes a gasser sucks as much as a plaining diesel boat.

1NMPG is common for both , depending on cruse speed.

At just above idle the gas engine is very fuel friendly and does not suffer from the big diesel woyry of slobbering due to underloading.

"Speaking from experience of rusting engines, well cylinders rust when engines sit."

The usual is to spray with fogging fluid (NAPA) and cap intake and especially exhaust.

Draining a lift muffler is also good practice.
 
Many gas boats under 30 feet carry 100 gallons of fuel..The assistance Boat I drove had 100 and it was a gas inboard....


This 25 Sea Hunt carries 148..


Gamefish 25


This 27 Boston Whaler carries 152...


Boston Whaler | 270 Dauntless Boats | Center Console Fishing Boat | New Boats


This 24 Rosenborough carries 120 gallons...


2016 Rosborough RF-246 - SALE PENDING - Rosborough Boats In Stock


This Parker 25 carries 179 gallons...


http://parkerboats.net/blog/2520-xld-sport-cabin-new/


This 26 foot C-Dory carries a 100 gallons....


http://www.c-dory.com/boats/venture/cruiser-26/26'%20Venture.pdf




All different kinds of boats...all at 100 or more gallons....
 
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Ya could call our comfortable, self contained, fun to play with 34 tri cabin Tolly a BIG Pocket Cruiser.

It holds 200 gal fuel... gasoline in our case. At under 6 knots (5 to 5.5 knots), using one engine, she approaches nearly 3 nmpg = 495 mile range when figured at 2.75 nmpg with 10% fuel safety factor. With both screws running and going just under 7 knots (7.58 knots is claced hull speed) she gets 2 nmpg = 360 mile range (10% fuel safety remaining). On full plane at 16 to 17 knots she gets 1 nmpg = 180 mile range (with 10% safety fuel)

If I wanted to increase range I could use fuel bladders... Don't plan to ever do that with gasoline as fuel. - no no no! If I wanted to increase range by 1/3 additional there are locations where another 100 gallons total tankage could be installed; i.e., two 50's. But... the ranges stated above are so far plenty for what we use our Tolly.

Family health items and near demolition of our house by 200 yr old, 80 ton white oak tree falling 50% of its weight into our house (7/26/2015) has drastically slowed our boat use for couple years. Not sure when we will get fully back on track for boat play due to health reasons of two in our family... we shall see. House 75% back to complete!

Happy Boat-Mileage daze! - Art :speed boat:
 
Art said:
Ya could call our comfortable, self contained, fun to play with 34 tri cabin Tolly a BIG Pocket Cruiser.

It holds 200 gal fuel... gasoline in our case. At under 6 knots (5 to 5.5 knots), using one engine, she approaches nearly 3 nmpg = 495 mile range when figured at 2.75 nmpg with 10% fuel safety factor. With both screws running and going just under 7 knots (7.58 knots is claced hull speed) she gets 2 nmpg = 360 mile range (10% fuel safety remaining). On full plane at 16 to 17 knots she gets 1 nmpg = 180 mile range (with 10% safety fuel)

If I wanted to increase range I could use fuel bladders... Don't plan to ever do that with gasoline as fuel. - no no no! If I wanted to increase range by 1/3 additional there are locations where another 100 gallons total tankage could be installed; i.e., two 50's. But... the ranges stated above are so far plenty for what we use our Tolly.

Family health items and near demolition of our house by 200 yr old, 80 ton white oak tree falling 50% of its weight into our house (7/26/2015) has drastically slowed our boat use for couple years. Not sure when we will get fully back on track for boat play due to health reasons of two in our family... we shall see. House 75% back to complete!

Happy Boat-Mileage daze! - Art :speed boat:
Click to expand...

I also have a gasser. In my case I have two 145 gallon long saddle style Monel tanks made by SeaFare in 1970. They look sort of green metal and seem to be ok.
My engines are 392 IH Palmer marinized. I am just finishing up a starboard side rebuild.
Here is an album link starboard
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=NVZlQTNmblNxOXJUd1JHT3dMUDRCR0EtQ2ZmeGxR

Port from a few years ago
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=MXFfUjIzY0NXd080dWVyeTNQX0V3a2J2bWk3cGRR

I am lucky to get 2 nmpg, maybe run just one would do better? Pushing 37 feet of boat.
 
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sdowney717 said:
I also have a gasser. In my case I have two 145 gallon long saddle style Monel tanks made by SeaFare in 1970. They look sort of green metal and seem to be ok.
My engines are 392 IH Palmer marinized. I am just finishing up a starboard side rebuild.
Here is an album link starboard
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=NVZlQTNmblNxOXJUd1JHT3dMUDRCR0EtQ2ZmeGxR

Port from a few years ago
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=MXFfUjIzY0NXd080dWVyeTNQX0V3a2J2bWk3cGRR

I am lucky to get 2 nmpg, maybe run just one would do better? Pushing 37 feet of boat.
Click to expand...

Yo sd -

Cool photo track on Palmer rebuilds. Have you photos of boat?

If you run on one engine at well below hull speed you should get near 3 nmpg. Be careful trany can take free wheeling - some can't. In that case... off-engine's shaft needs to be locked for no rotation. Bork Warner Velvet Drive trany can free wheel... at least our 1977's can. Check with trany manufacturer before you let it free wheel.
 
Reading everyone's thought's in writing certainly brings fourth all the thoughts when we jump into our dreams. My boat was owned for over 37 years by a true gentleman that maintained her for a person just like me. I will do the same for the next person of this magnificent vessel. Fair winds to all in the dreams and realities.
 
Art said:
Yo sd -

Cool photo track on Palmer rebuilds. Have you photos of boat?

If you run on one engine at well below hull speed you should get near 3 nmpg. Be careful trany can take free wheeling - some can't. In that case... off-engine's shaft needs to be locked for no rotation. Bork Warner Velvet Drive trany can free wheel... at least our 1977's can. Check with trany manufacturer before you let it free wheel.
Click to expand...

Interesting graph ...actual accurate data taken on a real boat with lab equipment.

img_431907_0_86b546a0c784eea901e874d23fcde745.jpg
 
Art said:
Yo sd -

Cool photo track on Palmer rebuilds. Have you photos of boat?

If you run on one engine at well below hull speed you should get near 3 nmpg. Be careful trany can take free wheeling - some can't. In that case... off-engine's shaft needs to be locked for no rotation. Bork Warner Velvet Drive trany can free wheel... at least our 1977's can. Check with trany manufacturer before you let it free wheel.
Click to expand...

I do. Pictures from haul out after 5 years in water in 2014.
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=bzlLdzdJbVBwdURUOUZoSWhWQjgtRUNHTXp5d09n


They are 2.57 to 1 Velvet Drives. Spins 22 by 20 props.

I did find my port motor was way out of alignment, actually dragging the shaft on the shaft log. So had to move front of engine over a half inch, etc... I got it lined up within .005 " now.
 
Rustybarge said:
Interesting graph ...actual accurate data taken on a real boat with lab equipment.

img_431923_0_86b546a0c784eea901e874d23fcde745.jpg
Click to expand...

Thanks, that is interesting. Less than 1/3rd hull drag at 5 knts compared to 7 knts. Different prop condition-drags are notable too.
 
sdowney717 said:
I do. Pictures from haul out after 5 years in water in 2014.
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1...?key=bzlLdzdJbVBwdURUOUZoSWhWQjgtRUNHTXp5d09n


They are 2.57 to 1 Velvet Drives. Spins 22 by 20 props.

I did find my port motor was way out of alignment, actually dragging the shaft on the shaft log. So had to move front of engine over a half inch, etc... I got it lined up within .005 " now.
Click to expand...

Them Eggs are beauts! Good on ya. Labor o' luv... I can tell. Cruise her well! - Art
 
"Cost" and "boat" in the same sentence are irrelevant to me. I have totally gutted and rebuilt three (37', 43' and 38') boats and spent far more on each of them than I could ever hope to recoup in my widest dreams.

The difference is I knew what I was doing and wanted to do it anyway. The problem comes from noobs and dreamers who have no idea what they are getting into when they buy a $15k, 38' trawler from Craigs List. The yards I visit are littered with the broken dreams of the uneducated.
 
We bought a "demi-refitted" boat. It was cheaper and in far better condition than the two other KK42's available at the time and we have no regrets. Whoever bought "Stout" got one heck of a boat.
http://krogen42stout.com/about-stout



Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum
 
needs some TLC...

The PO kept saying "You understand you're buying this as is, right?"

It's coming up on a year since I bought it and I am making some headway. But unfortunately I put a bigscreen on the boat and I spend most of the time daydreaming about where I am going to go in it when I get done. LOL
 
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