Blue Goose
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Go for a Rocna or Mantus. Good hold, good reset, good nights sleep. Also carry a Fortress for stern or emergency.
I Will Pay The $$. Which Anchor Is Best?
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Anchor Brian
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Here's an image of a new 154-ft US Coast Guard Sentinel-class cutter during a recent March commissioning in Puerto Rico. This vessel displaces 353 long tons (about 791k lbs) and its primary anchor (mounted on bow) is the Fortress FX-125, which weighs about 70 lbs.
Not to brag (well, maybe a little), but I don't believe that there is another 70 lb anchor in the world that could come close to meeting the performance standard that was required for approval aboard a vessel of this size.
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Not to brag (well, maybe a little), but I don't believe that there is another 70 lb anchor in the world that could come close to meeting the performance standard that was required for approval aboard a vessel of this size.
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psneeld
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That is impressive...but cruising vessels have different requirements than many commercial and military vessels.
Even large ship anchoring comparisons are often debated as totally different for many reasons such as live watches and bringing up propulsion for even relatively low wind speeds (often 35 knots and vessels in anchorages must turn on propulsion by order of the USCG Captain of the Port.)
While I think every vessel should have a an appropriate Fortress on board....it wont be hanging on as many cruisers as you might like. We both have heard those reasons plenty of times whether fair or not.
Even large ship anchoring comparisons are often debated as totally different for many reasons such as live watches and bringing up propulsion for even relatively low wind speeds (often 35 knots and vessels in anchorages must turn on propulsion by order of the USCG Captain of the Port.)
While I think every vessel should have a an appropriate Fortress on board....it wont be hanging on as many cruisers as you might like. We both have heard those reasons plenty of times whether fair or not.
HopCar
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When I was a salesman and called on the Coast Guard ships based in Miami, all of the Island Class 110 foot ships carried Fortress anchors. I guess they liked them if they put them on the replacement class of ships.
Nomad Willy
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Chris wrote;
"Ummm....
Convex Plow (or plough)
Convex Plow with rollbar
Concave Scoop
Convex scoop with rollbar
Back-hoe
Pivoting with stock
Stockless pivoting
????"
Convex Plough ... Delta and Excel.
Convex Plough w RB ... SARCA.
Concave Scoop ... Claws, Vulcan, Spade and Max.
Concave scoop w RB ... Supreme, Mantus and Rocna.
Pivoting shank w stocks ... Fortress and Danforths.
Stockless pivoting shank anchors ... AC-14, Navy and Dreadnought.
Chris I think the Back Hoe/Super Max is a scoop anchor. Tell me why not if your inclined. I could put the XYZ on the list but I think I'm the only member who has one. That could also be said about the Dreadnought. It's a good example of a Stockless anchor though .. see pic below.
Yes I think Rex of Anchor Right didn't like it when someone called his SARCA a plough anchor but what else can it be called?
"or maybe a ratio of fluke size to weight or some such."
Re fluke size to weight I think the XYZ would be well above any other anchor in this regard in steel. There is only a shank and fluke ... and it's the smallest shank I've ever seen. Shorter flukes can be made lighter as they require less strength so it's a double save .. or advantage. Any weight saved by smaller appendages (or lack of) can be put into the fluke making it larger. It has been said (perhaps several to many times) that an anchor's holding power is directly proportional to it's fluke area.
HopCar,
Yes I think the Coast Guard probably knows what they are doing. psneeld's comments are applicable to stockless anchors on ships but the Fortress is even more suitable to pleasure boats than CG boats so I think if Brian is at all bragging it's well justified. But the "cruising" part of psneeld's comments are justified too as it is frequently to seldom known what kind of bottom a cruising boat will need to anchor in. The Danforth types aren't known for all bottom types.
"Ummm....
Convex Plow (or plough)
Convex Plow with rollbar
Concave Scoop
Convex scoop with rollbar
Back-hoe
Pivoting with stock
Stockless pivoting
????"
Convex Plough ... Delta and Excel.
Convex Plough w RB ... SARCA.
Concave Scoop ... Claws, Vulcan, Spade and Max.
Concave scoop w RB ... Supreme, Mantus and Rocna.
Pivoting shank w stocks ... Fortress and Danforths.
Stockless pivoting shank anchors ... AC-14, Navy and Dreadnought.
Chris I think the Back Hoe/Super Max is a scoop anchor. Tell me why not if your inclined. I could put the XYZ on the list but I think I'm the only member who has one. That could also be said about the Dreadnought. It's a good example of a Stockless anchor though .. see pic below.
Yes I think Rex of Anchor Right didn't like it when someone called his SARCA a plough anchor but what else can it be called?
"or maybe a ratio of fluke size to weight or some such."
Re fluke size to weight I think the XYZ would be well above any other anchor in this regard in steel. There is only a shank and fluke ... and it's the smallest shank I've ever seen. Shorter flukes can be made lighter as they require less strength so it's a double save .. or advantage. Any weight saved by smaller appendages (or lack of) can be put into the fluke making it larger. It has been said (perhaps several to many times) that an anchor's holding power is directly proportional to it's fluke area.
HopCar,
Yes I think the Coast Guard probably knows what they are doing. psneeld's comments are applicable to stockless anchors on ships but the Fortress is even more suitable to pleasure boats than CG boats so I think if Brian is at all bragging it's well justified. But the "cruising" part of psneeld's comments are justified too as it is frequently to seldom known what kind of bottom a cruising boat will need to anchor in. The Danforth types aren't known for all bottom types.
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dhays
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Bragging is perfectly appropriate!
I have carried a Fortress in my aft lazarette for a long time. It will be sold with my sailboat and I will likely get another one to take as a stern or reserve anchor for my new boat.
Nomad Willy
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Hi Peter,
Bedtime .. but you say the SARCA isn't a plough. If it isn't please put the propper label on it so we can classify it w the other anchors.
Yes I remember Marin's engineering expressed opinions. But remember that a concave shape resists movement better than a convex. Perhaps he had that on his mind.
Bedtime .. but you say the SARCA isn't a plough. If it isn't please put the propper label on it so we can classify it w the other anchors.
Yes I remember Marin's engineering expressed opinions. But remember that a concave shape resists movement better than a convex. Perhaps he had that on his mind.
BruceK
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Surely the Super Sarca fluke is both concave and convex, depends which side you view it from, top or underneath.
If you take the CQR as a classic example of a plow/plough blade, the SS is nothing like one. It gets closer to a disc plough, except it`s triangular not round, and it operates blade parallel to the surface being "ploughed", not at a right angle, like a disc or blade plough.
Hard to call it a plough imo.
If you take the CQR as a classic example of a plow/plough blade, the SS is nothing like one. It gets closer to a disc plough, except it`s triangular not round, and it operates blade parallel to the surface being "ploughed", not at a right angle, like a disc or blade plough.
Hard to call it a plough imo.
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ranger58sb
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I think I don't disagree that it's a scoop, but I think of it as different from the other convex scoops -- which all seemed to be flat-ish (but convex) triangular shapes. Whereas the SuperMAX scoop is more like the bucket of a back-hoe.
I remember that being Rex's point, too, and it sounds good... I just can't make out the differences that might cause that in the pictures of a Rex anchor and a Delta. Haven't seen one of Rex's in person...
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Surely the Super Sarca fluke is both concave and convex, depends which side you view it from, top or underneath.
If you take the CQR as a classic example of a plow/plough blade, the SS is nothing like one. It gets closer to a disc plough, except it`s triangular not round, and it operates blade parallel to the surface being "ploughed", not at a right angle, like a disc or blade plough.
Hard to call it a plough imo.
Good point Bruce, and even better explained like this...
Excel is not a plough anchor, as there are no ploughshares, but in their place is what are called single plain concave flukes, this being the greater part of its concave arrangement, and rather than plough the substrate, this new fluke arrangement is designed to compress, then directs the material-substrate over the rear of the Excel forcing itself deeper as more load is applied...
Putting it another way...looked at a Sarca, especially the Excel, there are two concave blades, fused at the upper edge to form in effect a rather flattened inverted v-shape, like this, /\, only flatter...whereas the scoop type flukes are the opposite, and front end on look like this, \/, only flatter. If coming towards you, which is going to trend down, and which up, and which is going to hold more stuff when it comes up..?
Moonstruck
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I have both the Ex-Cel and a Delta. When you see them side by side the difference is readily apparent. No siemilarity in design. My Delta served me well with only a couple of hard bottoms it didn't set. The Ex-Cel bites fast and hard.
So the Ex-Cel is the best anchor. Pgitug, send me a PM so I can let you know where to send the $$.
So the Ex-Cel is the best anchor. Pgitug, send me a PM so I can let you know where to send the $$.
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Nomad Willy
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This is nuts. Everyone is so sensitive about their baby they think the only correct name for their baby is something real special and unique. Type names have already been established. Mostly scoop and plow.
Arguments can be made about the SARCA that dosn't fit neatly into the accepted anchor type names but the Excel is clearly a plow. And at one time "plough" referred to a farm implement but in boat anchor talk it's one of the most popular anchor types. The name plow (I'll use that spelling for anchors) is well established and I didn't make it up. There's scoop (didn't make that one up either) and plow. There's no such thing as roll bar anchors as roll bars are an auxiliary function .. not primary. All roll bar anchors are scoop or plow as a primary identification feature.
It boils down to not wanting your very special baby to be named after a farm tool but that's what has happened.
So What is it going to be for these AR anchors? The SARCA is a scoop or plow ... I personally can't see it as a scoop. And the Excel is not a scoop in anybodies fantasy. The name scoop and plow refers to the shape of the fluke. Very appropriate. Like a FD - SD boat hull .... defined by shape. It's primary. Scoop and plow is well established. It's just a matter of pining the right identifying word on the appropriately shaped anchor.
Some anchor names like Stockless aren't very good because of all the new anchors that have nothing to do w stocks. Except for the Danforth and Fortress all the other anchors in this thread have long been established as scoops or plows. IMO.
But if there should be other names lets hear them.
I agree Don .. the thread choose the Excel and the Supreme as #1. That's what the thread said. But as a basic type the Excel is a plow.
Arguments can be made about the SARCA that dosn't fit neatly into the accepted anchor type names but the Excel is clearly a plow. And at one time "plough" referred to a farm implement but in boat anchor talk it's one of the most popular anchor types. The name plow (I'll use that spelling for anchors) is well established and I didn't make it up. There's scoop (didn't make that one up either) and plow. There's no such thing as roll bar anchors as roll bars are an auxiliary function .. not primary. All roll bar anchors are scoop or plow as a primary identification feature.
It boils down to not wanting your very special baby to be named after a farm tool but that's what has happened.
So What is it going to be for these AR anchors? The SARCA is a scoop or plow ... I personally can't see it as a scoop. And the Excel is not a scoop in anybodies fantasy. The name scoop and plow refers to the shape of the fluke. Very appropriate. Like a FD - SD boat hull .... defined by shape. It's primary. Scoop and plow is well established. It's just a matter of pining the right identifying word on the appropriately shaped anchor.
Some anchor names like Stockless aren't very good because of all the new anchors that have nothing to do w stocks. Except for the Danforth and Fortress all the other anchors in this thread have long been established as scoops or plows. IMO.
But if there should be other names lets hear them.
I agree Don .. the thread choose the Excel and the Supreme as #1. That's what the thread said. But as a basic type the Excel is a plow.
Nomad Willy
Guru
Peter I've seen that. I even have it on a disc.
Simple ... non scoop anchors don't scoop as much. I prefer a flat fluke and the SARCA is'nt far from that. If there was a third name for anchor types that embraced flat flukes it could be probably applied to the SARCA. But there is only scoop and plow. Concave and convex. SARCA is convex and convex anchors are called plows.
And Bruce, Peter .. concavity or convexity are perceived buy looking down on the surface ... not up underneath.
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Nomad Willy
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Chris wrote;
"I think I don't disagree that it's a scoop, but I think of it as different from the other convex scoops -- which all seemed to be flat-ish (but convex) triangular shapes. Whereas the SuperMAX scoop is more like the bucket of a back-hoe."
Indeed the Max is different.
I put a chisel nosed tip on my XYZ about 3.5" wide. When I thought about it I reflected that the Max had three wide tips and it apparently worked so maybe my one wide tip would. I assumed it would only set in mud but wanted to try it. I did and on our trip down from SE Alaska through Canada it set and held every time. I concluded there was a lot of mud up there. Actually I think by quite a margin most all anchorages in the PNW are a mud bottom. We used that XYZ at least 6 times probably more. I tried it since in the San Juan Is. over a grassy bottom in Fisherman Bay (Lopez Is.) and it wouldn't set. But the inspiration to try it came from my remembering the Max.
As to the name "Back Hoe" it does clearly fit better but scoop fits too and it's established. Like I said I like the Back Hoe name but it's a name for something else.
"I think I don't disagree that it's a scoop, but I think of it as different from the other convex scoops -- which all seemed to be flat-ish (but convex) triangular shapes. Whereas the SuperMAX scoop is more like the bucket of a back-hoe."
Indeed the Max is different.
I put a chisel nosed tip on my XYZ about 3.5" wide. When I thought about it I reflected that the Max had three wide tips and it apparently worked so maybe my one wide tip would. I assumed it would only set in mud but wanted to try it. I did and on our trip down from SE Alaska through Canada it set and held every time. I concluded there was a lot of mud up there. Actually I think by quite a margin most all anchorages in the PNW are a mud bottom. We used that XYZ at least 6 times probably more. I tried it since in the San Juan Is. over a grassy bottom in Fisherman Bay (Lopez Is.) and it wouldn't set. But the inspiration to try it came from my remembering the Max.
As to the name "Back Hoe" it does clearly fit better but scoop fits too and it's established. Like I said I like the Back Hoe name but it's a name for something else.
ranger58sb
Guru
FWIW, the only reason I think useful (for me) to make roll-bar "sub-categories" (or whatever) is because I think all the roll-bar anchors (plow or scoop) won't fit on our pulpit.
And it's the only thing I could think of that so effectively described it, when I was asked how it differed from a ... ummm... I forget. Ultra, I think... One of the other scoops, anyway.
In any case, I don't feel strongly one way or the three others about any of this.
-Chris
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Moonstruck
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I figured that my post would smoke Eric out. I had almost put a smiley on it, but thought naw. Let's see what Eric does with it.
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BruceK
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I suppose it helps to understand design to figure out why a particular anchor works (or does not) effectively. Especially for anchor enthusiasts. And it could be helpful if you were deciding to "take a punt" on an anchor of similar design properties to a proven performer.
Anchoring is intended to be an effective method of keeping a boat in one place in the absence of a dock or a fixed mooring apparatus to tie to. We all want to wake with our boat where it was when we went to bed.
For my part I`m content to use what I believe is as good a performer as I have seen on the market. There are many variables in every anchoring, the anchor itself is just one, but an important one,of the anchoring procedure. If in the future there are potentially better all round anchors, I will consider them.
And that`s why the identical procedure tests performed by Steve are so valuable.
Anchoring is intended to be an effective method of keeping a boat in one place in the absence of a dock or a fixed mooring apparatus to tie to. We all want to wake with our boat where it was when we went to bed.
For my part I`m content to use what I believe is as good a performer as I have seen on the market. There are many variables in every anchoring, the anchor itself is just one, but an important one,of the anchoring procedure. If in the future there are potentially better all round anchors, I will consider them.
And that`s why the identical procedure tests performed by Steve are so valuable.
sdowney717
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Here's an image of a new 154-ft US Coast Guard Sentinel-class cutter during a recent March commissioning in Puerto Rico. This vessel displaces 353 long tons (about 791k lbs) and its primary anchor (mounted on bow) is the Fortress FX-125, which weighs about 70 lbs.
Not to brag (well, maybe a little), but I don't believe that there is another 70 lb anchor in the world that could come close to meeting the performance standard that was required for approval aboard a vessel of this size.
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Hi, thanks for the postimage.org website link.
I found it works well for posting my pictures onto a forum.
I was having trouble with Google Photos, no one could see the pictures even though shared.
Nomad Willy
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Don as you can see it dosn't much to smoke me out.
Re the anchor name plow .....
I can see the name plow would be a little like calling my Willard a barge. There are fine yachts in Europe called barges. But I'm sure there's no negative energy associated w the name. But if you called my Willard a barge my response would'nt be all positive as that is'nt an accepted name for a Willard. And I don't think there is any negative energy in the anchor name "plow" but I do think that some here do. Rex sorta came unglued when someone called his Excel a plow but that classification can't be avoided.
Anyway I don't think there's much we can do about it now. Scoop and Plow are the common accepted names now and I don't think the anchor name plow is intended as a slur at all.
Re the anchor name plow .....
I can see the name plow would be a little like calling my Willard a barge. There are fine yachts in Europe called barges. But I'm sure there's no negative energy associated w the name. But if you called my Willard a barge my response would'nt be all positive as that is'nt an accepted name for a Willard. And I don't think there is any negative energy in the anchor name "plow" but I do think that some here do. Rex sorta came unglued when someone called his Excel a plow but that classification can't be avoided.
Anyway I don't think there's much we can do about it now. Scoop and Plow are the common accepted names now and I don't think the anchor name plow is intended as a slur at all.
Capt.Bill11
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2 Good choices.
markpierce
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Nevertheless, this is quite contrary to anchors I've observed on boats. ... Possibly due to inactive boaters ... or people justifying their new investments.
Nomad Willy
Guru
Mark,
Perhaps most people don't anchor and of those that do .. do it under benign conditions whereas there is no motivation to upgrade their anchor. And speaking of "upgrade" most would assume the anchor is fine .... after all there it is, someone put it there and they probably know more than I do so it dosn't even enter their minds.
The anchors above were chosen by TF guys and most of us (that do post) know quite a bit about anchoring. These are the best anchors in the world and what you see on boats are at the other end of the game. Like 20 yr old beater cars. Not supprising there's a big difference.
Perhaps most people don't anchor and of those that do .. do it under benign conditions whereas there is no motivation to upgrade their anchor. And speaking of "upgrade" most would assume the anchor is fine .... after all there it is, someone put it there and they probably know more than I do so it dosn't even enter their minds.
The anchors above were chosen by TF guys and most of us (that do post) know quite a bit about anchoring. These are the best anchors in the world and what you see on boats are at the other end of the game. Like 20 yr old beater cars. Not supprising there's a big difference.
dhays
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Again, I have a CQR on my sailboat. Not because I think it is the best, but because it came with the boat and it worked "well enough" that it never rose high enough on the "needs to be improved" list to bother changing it. So you would walk the dock and see a CQR on my bow.
Someone should do a poll on TF, and list all the anchors that might be selected by TF readers, and ask them which anchor they would buy now if they didn't have any anchor.
Discussions tend to be rhetorical by nature and one of the realities of life is budget. Most of these superman anchors are extremely expensive, some are ridiculous in my opinion.
So we often hear the scare tactic response of "how much is it worth to risk losing your boat?" Well, no anchor will save your boat in severe conditions - only your brain and skills and experience will.
The other reality is that if you travel and anchor enough then there is a high risk of losing an anchor - having to cut it free. So you could go out and buy an "obsolete" Bruce type that is 3 times heavier and still half the cost of a high tech anchor. WHEN you lose it then it won't be so big an impact on your lifestyle.
I really appreciate the varied opinions that I see on this and other forums, but I hope that newbies that are here to learn aren't being overly-inundandated with the idea that they must have the latest and greatest and electronic and expensive. Remember that there are hundreds of times more experienced sailors that have circled the globe in $20k sailboats 25-30 feet long than there are those with million dollar trawlers.
That's my opinion, love it or hate it. Thanks guys.
So we often hear the scare tactic response of "how much is it worth to risk losing your boat?" Well, no anchor will save your boat in severe conditions - only your brain and skills and experience will.
The other reality is that if you travel and anchor enough then there is a high risk of losing an anchor - having to cut it free. So you could go out and buy an "obsolete" Bruce type that is 3 times heavier and still half the cost of a high tech anchor. WHEN you lose it then it won't be so big an impact on your lifestyle.
I really appreciate the varied opinions that I see on this and other forums, but I hope that newbies that are here to learn aren't being overly-inundandated with the idea that they must have the latest and greatest and electronic and expensive. Remember that there are hundreds of times more experienced sailors that have circled the globe in $20k sailboats 25-30 feet long than there are those with million dollar trawlers.
That's my opinion, love it or hate it. Thanks guys.
motion30
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Mantus. Ronca or manson supreme. All very good
tpbrady
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Mantus, Rocna, Manson Supreme. Yes all seem to be good. I went with the Mantus bought on Amazon because it was eligible for Prime and was shipped to Anchorage free. I don't think they will do that again.
Tom
Tom
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