My bilge pump sucks...

A few years ago, I decided I wanted a completely dry bilge and worked hard to successfully identify and eliminate all sources of water accumulation. Now I rarely get water in any bilge except one (the one into which the lazarette drains -- I have not yet figured out how water only occasionally gets in there, and only when the boat is unattended at the dock). But I was never successful in finding a way to automatically dry the bilge. The wet vac is best, although the bilge pump does a good enough job that evaporation will take care of the rest in a few days if I leave a hatch open.
A warning however: for a certain personality type (like mine, for which my wife insists the clinical term is "anal retentive"), the quest for perpetually dry bilges can become an obsession; but the satisfaction of confirming a complete lack of any bilge water is incomparably satisfying.

cardude01 said:

After reading everyone's thoughtful and sometimes humorous replies, I think I will attempt to just chill about the excess water left in the bilge. I really didn't want to spend $200 plus for a separate diaphragm pump system, but if it keeps bothering me I guess that's what I'll do. Until then I will keep sucking out the excess with my little bucket vac.

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If it's just a little bit, there is another solution. At the Dollar Tree in the summertime they have these giant (30" long) squirt guns. It's like a syringe and you can suck up a cup of water then squirt it overboard.

I mentioned it to a girlfriend with a sailboat. She uses the thing in her bilge to get everything out of inaccessible spots. Works great.

BUT, the part that you pull out isn't attached real well to the plunger. Add a hose clamp and you'll be good to go. I've used mine in Algae to get up that list little bit after bailing though honestly a rag works better/faster. I've used it in the bilge too when I get into these "dry bilge" moods.

It passes soon enough.

For a dollar... well, it's an idea.

If you cant suck it out , why not power ventilate the lower bilge and evaporate ir out?

A bilge is usually cool so warmer outside air would be dry by contrast.

Comodave said:

My Trojan rope locker drained into the bilge so I glassed the bulkhead and closed up the bottom of the rope locker. Then I put a drain hole at the bottom of the rope locker through the hull and covered it with a clam shell facing down and aft. That stopped the water from the anchor rode from getting into the bilge. You just have to address each entry point in turn. The best solution is to keep the water out to begin with.

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If cardude has dripless shaft seals, I think I'd go with this solution. Our rope locker drains overboard and we have dripless seals... and most of the time, 6 of our 7 bilge compartments are completely dry.

(The 7th, under the cockpit, catches rainwater through the un-plumbed rod holders...)

RT Firefly said:

We do NOT have the PSS style dripless shaft seals so there's always just a touch of water in our bilges. My personal feeling is that I'd rather live with a bit of water than stress over the potential of a catastrophic failure of the rubber bellows or deal with leaking face seals...

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Good point. One of our dock neighbors has had an on-going failure problem of some sort with his seals... including just yesterday, as they brought the boat back on it's own hull... when he had to get a quick haul once they arrived due to seal failure.... once again.

Ours have worked fine, but now I'm searching for some wood to knock on...

cardude01 said:

After reading everyone's thoughtful and sometimes humorous replies, I think I will attempt to just chill about the excess water left in the bilge. I really didn't want to spend $200 plus for a separate diaphragm pump system, but if it keeps bothering me I guess that's what I'll do. Until then I will keep sucking out the excess with my little bucket vac.

Now onto my next worry-- attempting to remove the seawater pump on my little Yanmar so I can replace the impeller. From what I can see and from what I've read, there is no way to get to the impeller while the pump is on the engine. ��

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Re-routing anchor/rope locker drainage could be a one-time shot, whenever you get a round tuit.

I've heard folks say it's sometimes easier to remove the pump altogether and then do the impeller change at the bench... For our Yanmar genset engine, removing/replacing the pump is said to be not all that difficult, although I've not tried an impeller change that way yet.

-Chris

"I've heard folks say it's sometimes easier to remove the pump altogether and then do the impeller change at the bench"

On many boats using impeller cover screws that accepts an Allen wrench instead of a slotted screw head makes the task (by feel) faster and more secure.

janice142 said:

If it's just a little bit, there is another solution. At the Dollar Tree in the summertime they have these giant (30" long) squirt guns. It's like a syringe and you can suck up a cup of water then squirt it overboard.



I mentioned it to a girlfriend with a sailboat. She uses the thing in her bilge to get everything out of inaccessible spots. Works great.



BUT, the part that you pull out isn't attached real well to the plunger. Add a hose clamp and you'll be good to go. I've used mine in Algae to get up that list little bit after bailing though honestly a rag works better/faster. I've used it in the bilge too when I get into these "dry bilge" moods.



It passes soon enough.



For a dollar... well, it's an idea.

Click to expand...

This is a really good idea. I have a bucket vac, but it's stored in the lazarette and a pain to get to, then I have to mount it to the bucket which is always full of brushes and other items, then find the x cord. Etc. Etc.

The long pool squirt gun might even stand up in the bilge so I can just open the hatch, suck out last bit of water, squirt it in sink, replace gun and hatch.

Thanks!

ranger42c said:

If cardude has dripless shaft seals, I think I'd go with this solution. Our rope locker drains overboard and we have dripless seals... and most of the time, 6 of our 7 bilge compartments are completely dry.

Re-routing anchor/rope locker drainage could be a one-time shot, whenever you get a round tuit.

Click to expand...

I meant to add a comment about "why bother?"

If you can get there from here, ANY water in the bilge after that might be a sign of some other problem, possibly small when you first see it, but which may grow to become a serious issue of left unattended.

When our "dryness" is working as it should, water in the #3 bilge means a potential thru-hull leak, AC waterline leak, or shower sump leak. If in #6, a freshwater leak (line, pump, whatever), thru-hull leak, engine or genset water pump leak, etc.

Fresh vs. salt test...

And so forth. Just makes it easier to interpret any amount of water that might show up... without having to first compare "normal" water to "new" water.

IF it's possible to get squeaky dry in the first place.

-Chris

FF said:

If you cant suck it out , why not power ventilate the lower bilge and evaporate ir out?

A bilge is usually cool so warmer outside air would be dry by contrast.

Click to expand...

I just leave the hatches open for a few days (when we are not on the boat) and it evaporates..

Different strokes,

WE have raised the bilge pump and float switch to assure 2-3 inches of water in the bilge at all times.

Our full time belt driven Hyd pump , now has the added task of a Hyd windlass and the extra fluid movement from an autopilot.

2 - 25 ft long hyd hoses in the bilge water work well to keep hyd temperature down , and not require a heat exchanger or keel cooler.

KISS

cardude01 said:

Actually, it doesn't suck enough!

In my quest for a completely dry bilge, My problem is my bilge pump does not get all the water out. It leaves about 1/2" of water there and that drives me crazy.

Click to expand...

Seek professional help b/4 it's too late ....

cardude01 said:

This is a really good idea. I have a bucket vac, but it's stored in the lazarette and a pain to get to, then I have to mount it to the bucket which is always full of brushes and other items, then find the x cord. Etc. Etc.

The long pool squirt gun might even stand up in the bilge so I can just open the hatch, suck out last bit of water, squirt it in sink, replace gun and hatch.

Thanks!

Click to expand...

That's what I do.

Trawler Forum - View Single Post - My bilge pump sucks...

FF, thats not the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, but its close.

FlyWright said:

That's what I do.

Trawler Forum - View Single Post - My bilge pump sucks...

Click to expand...

Well I obviously missed that post! Stupid brain!

"FF, thats not the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard, but its close."

Cooling the hydraulics internally , instead of outside?

Have someone explain KISS to you.

Ok, I understand simple, so, lets get rid of all of that annoying engine cooling plumbing and simply drop 2 tubes from the engine into the bilge and fill the bilge with antifreeze. Super simple

My steel vessel never had a drop of water in the bilge (except for the tens of gallons that came through the porthole during one nasty Oregon storm). Storm aside, both packing glands drained into the shower sump. The anchor locker (watertight compartment) had a false floor grating and its own little plastic "shower" sump. Good design and control of water sources did the job.

The biggest pain in the arse was cleaning out that disgusting shower sump which clogged weekly.

It sounds like you controlled your aircon condensate very well, so just control the anchor locker leakage - either via a dedicated sump or by sealing the bottom and raising the "floor" level to above the waterline. You using rope or chain?

A dry bilge is a wonderful thing. You can then thoroughly clean it out with ammonia and bleach and be happy after that...

... btw, can anyone guess what that wonderful smelling vapor was that I created when I mixed those two chemicals?????

makobuilders said:

The biggest pain in the arse was cleaning out that disgusting shower sump which clogged weekly.

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A number of years ago, I saw a recommendation by Peggy (The Headmistress) to squirt some Raritan CP into the shower sump after using the shower. Something about the enzymes in the CP helping to breakdown the hair that gets trapped in the sump. I have been doing that since and never had any problems.

Now, my boat was not a live aboard, so the shower usage wasn't as heavy and the shower sump was only used for the shower. So as always, YMMV

kulas44 said:

Ok, I understand simple, so, lets get rid of all of that annoying engine cooling plumbing and simply drop 2 tubes from the engine into the bilge and fill the bilge with antifreeze. Super simple

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You sir are a genius!

You could just have a continuous raw water leak from a seacock that a bilge pump pumps out to keep exchanging out the hot "coolant" water in your bilge for fresh cool water.

Or better yet, lay keel coolers in the bilge for each item you need to cool and let the raw water wash over them.

I have often wondered why keel coolers are always on the outside of the hull, where they are difficult to keep from fouling. In the bilge, attached to the hull for their full length, especially in a steel hull, would be so much easier to keep clean and otherwise to inspect and maintain. On a FG hull the attachment would need close attention to assure thermal transfer, and it wouldn't work at all on a wood hull, but I have never heard of it being done on any hull.

returning to the topic of this thread:
After a diligent search, I identified and stopped all of the sources of new water in my bilge and received complaints from the admiral that the bilge has started to smell. Better to let things leak a little and get the old water pumped out, replaced with cleaner, non smelly water, than to fight the stagnation of the little bit that the pumps wont remove.

koliver said:

After a diligent search, I identified and stopped all of the sources of new water in my bilge and received complaints from the admiral that the bilge has started to smell. Better to let things leak a little and get the old water pumped out, replaced with cleaner, non smelly water, than to fight the stagnation of the little bit that the pumps wont remove.

Click to expand...

If you've eliminated all sources of new water -- and then take the time to suck out the last remaining old water (wet-vac or rags or squirt gun or whatever) -- that stagnation thing won't usually occur.

-Chris

Chris:

You state the obvious. However, my bilge is 35'x16", all of it uneven, much of it inaccessible to vacuum or wiping rags. There is also that silly habit of letting the packings drip just so. I think I was happier with leaks and a reliable bilge pump.

A dry bilge is a wonderful thing. You can then thoroughly clean it out with ammonia and bleach and be happy after that...

... btw, can anyone guess what that wonderful smelling vapor was that I created when I mixed those two chemicals?????
makobuilders is online now Report Post


chlorine

Ted

... chloramine... hydrochloric acid... benzene... chemical weapon (although not mustard gas which is the common belief).

Luckily I was in my young 20's and only inhaled a bit. It's weird though, because when I was in my 20's I knew everything!

cardude01 said:

Actually, it doesn't suck enough!

1. I recently washed the chain off in the chain locker, and all the water drained right to the bilge-- I didn't expect that but maybe that's normal.

2. My problem is my bilge pump does not get all the water out. It leaves about 1/2" of water there and that drives me crazy. Is there a better pump that would suck it all out? Maybe install a secondary pump? I've been use the wet vac to get it all out but that's getting old.

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1. Not, it's not normal, most anchor lockers have a drain to the outside. Maybe if you block off the current outlet drain, then drill through the hull at the lowest point of the locker, (usually far enough above the waterline to not be an issue), and epoxy into the hole a plastic tube, or something along this lines you could get yours draining outboard..? You can then put a stainless vent cover over it to disguise it.

2. No, there is no way, unless your boat is dripless everything, and you are prepared to get down there with a rag to finish off, or grout out a recess in the lowest part of the bilge and set the pump into that, but then there's still the back flow when it turns off, and that might compromise the hull thickness or core. Otherwise...just get over it like the rest of us wet bilgers...

"I have often wondered why keel coolers are always on the outside of the hull, where they are difficult to keep from fouling. In the bilge, attached to the hull for their full length, especially in a steel hull, would be so much easier to keep clean and otherwise to inspect and maintain."

Many metal boats , steel or aluminum do use internal cooling.

The coolant is plumbed into passages welded to the skin , and covered with a bolted plate .

There is a requirement for enough hull surface area to cool the engine in tropical conditions, with full throttle use.

I believe its covered in "the Nature of Boats", or Skeins. No external drag , or holes in the skin.

There is a huge difference in the coolant requirements for a 50-500HP diesel, and a 1 hp at max hyd system.

An almost maint free cooling system can be created , but a GRP hull is harder to do.

An external keel cooler is more predictable in its cooling ability.

koliver said:

Chris:

You state the obvious. However, my bilge is 35'x16", all of it uneven, much of it inaccessible to vacuum or wiping rags. There is also that silly habit of letting the packings drip just so. I think I was happier with leaks and a reliable bilge pump.

Click to expand...

Yeah, thought so, didn't mean to sound critical.

Given traditional packings... I'd guess you can't get there from here... simply because you can't really eliminate all the sources of new water.

-Chris

FF, I've got an idea. We build a cooler/heat exchanger and put it in the bilge, hook the engine to it. Then we build a float valve on a thru hull that lets water into the bilge and regulates it at a preset level. We use the raw water pump on the engine to suck the water up and out with the exhaust. We'll call it a "bilge cooler". You may be on to something with your idea.

Using an off the shelf Keelcooler , or an internal one has NO requirement to have the vessel need a sea water pump.

Exhaust manifolds can be cooled with sea water , but why bother?

A std dry stack can use wrapped/insulated wet or dry exhaust manifolds , no external water required.

This keel cooled dry stack is what allows many commercial vessels to use car or truck engines and simply visit the scrap yard should an engine blow.

With proper deck house build the R&R seldom takes a weekend .

Go up to Maine where the real fun folks have 2 engines for their lobster boats .

One a plonker to work for a living , one a drop in snorter for the races.

I realize that FF, I was just trying to extrapolate on your hydraulic cooling system.

They all suck, except the ones that don't suck very well, really suck.