SatTV -- KVH problems, What is Best?

Kurt,

If I am correct your system doesn't acquire satellites by looking at specific transponders but simply looks for energy across the frequency band output by the LNB. The original cheap satellite meters worked using the same principle. On yours you set the elevation and it pans until it finds energy and then stops when it detects something. To change satellites you probably have to change elevation. As long as the boat doesn't rock too much it probably works fine. You would be immune to the change DISH made. Looking at the AzTrax you could convert to the DISHPro LNBF (the newer technology) with the DPP33/44 switch. PM me and I will describe how to do it.

The older LNBs work with any signal modulation. They are kind of like a broadband radio receiver, anything they hear between 12.2 to 12.7 GHz they convert to 950 to 2150 MHz and send it down the cable to the receiver. The tracking terminal splits off some of the signal and uses that to determine if it is on a satellite. The AzTrack is looking for energy and the KVH/Intellian and others are looking for a specific transponder frequency and modulation format. Change the modulation format and they become stupid. The reason for the KVH comment on the eastern arc was probably because that arc has been 8PSK for quite a while.

Raymarine was fairly late to the TV game so I suspect they built in the capability to adjust satellite modulation like KVH did in their later units. They would still have to send all their customers new firmware or have them make changes in the tracking configuration.

Tom

Ah, Tom, you've educated me! I had no idea the domes are looking for transponders. With AzTrax or Track-It they're even more simple than you guess. They're not "looking" for energy. The user sets the elevation and manually "dials" in the azimuth. A built in compass keeps the dish aligned with the birds once signal is manually peaked. I believe I'm already using DishPro LNBFs at some locations. They work great when only working with one bird.

This KVH document explains what is going on and isn't good news for the OP.

Changes to Tracking Parameters of DISH Network

One would expect KVH to do a little more than offer a tiny discount on an obsolete product.

Kurt,

DISH is converting all transponders over to 8PSK so the patch on KVH systems without the RF7 board will only be temporary.

Not good news for owners of the older systems.

Tom

I've had an Intellian for over 6 years with no issues except once.
Very happy with the unit and its performance.
I had DirecTV but switched to Dish to get HD channels

The one issue I had, I called tech support on a Friday evening of a 3 day holiday weekend.
I was basically resigned to hearing from them Tuesday and hoping I'd be first in queue.
The tech support guy called me back on Saturday AM, while on his holiday, to help me thru what turned out to be my issue.

One other time I had to call Tech support, same thing, guy called me back while on vacation (he was at the beach with his family when he called me).

That level of customer support has kept me from straying to any other satellite product.

tpbrady said:

Kurt,

DISH is converting all transponders over to 8PSK so the patch on KVH systems without the RF7 board will only be temporary.

Not good news for owners of the older systems.

Click to expand...

Tom, I have to admit that all the info that you have given on this matter has gone right over my head.

The boat that I have an offer on has a pre-2013 TracVision M5 antenna. As I read that bulletin from KVH, I am a bit confused. Are they saying that an antenna built before 2009 can have the tracking parameters changed for the 110*W and 119*W satellites or that those built between 2009 and 2013 can have the RF7 board installed and then work?

The Dish Network Eastern Arc has been "live" for years with 8PSK. For KVH to be so behind the technology curve again (after the DirecTV Ku/Ka switch years ago) is quite sad. There's no way I'm buying any of their products. It is nice to hear that Intellian has such good support though.

Interestingly enough, i was shopping htese systems today as I need to replace the cable for my sea king above the pilothouse. I really want directv as it matches my home account and will hopefully get me sunday ticket. I also figured, i should have hd. if i am gonig to upgrade, I want hd.

What I found is that directv hd uses the Ka band. Dish uses the ku band fo hd, but directv dropped hd from their Ku band a while ago.

Intellian offers the s6hd and gets both ku and ka bands i saw prices for it around $8k

KVH offers the hd7 that gets the Ka and Ku bands for a little over $10k at W Marine.

I was also told that the kvh can track 2 satellites at once. I dont understand this, but was also told that if you have more than one receiver on the boat , you can switch between local and directv programming. Again, i may have not really understood what they were saying and i might have gotten it wrong.

Im seriously considering both of these units, but I sure would like the cheaper Intellian unit if it will meet my needs. I have no qualms about using Korean tech as we have seen a big influx of Korean equipment that has proved itself over time in my field for the last decade or so that qualms any fears about its use.

However, if anyone has had any recent negative experience with Intellian receivers , I sure would like to hear it here first.

Dave,

DISH was rolling out the change to the new modulation scheme 8PSK over a period of months. The patch KVH issued in December only changed the transponder that it was tracking on to one that had not been changed to 8PSK. There are 16 transponders they could pick on 119 for tracking but when they are all converted, the pre 2009 terminals won't be able to track. The ones made after some date in 2009 up until 2013 will need to be refitted with the RF-7 to track on DISH. In the survey get the serial number off the KVH and compare it to the list and that will tell you conclusively where you stand.

Just for grins today I looked at the terminals from KVH, Intellian, and Raymarine. Intellian really didn't provide enough information to tell how they work with DISH. KVH was also a little shy of information. Raymarine gave an in depth description of their DISH solution and it is solid and uses current DISH technology. I couldn't say the same for the other two.

KVH and Intellian have solutions for DirecTV HD. While both the Ku and Ka bands are involved, the orbital slots are close together (99,101,103). While I didn't delve in it deeply, they should be able to be looking at all three satellites simultaneously. Raymarine doesn't have anything like that the best I can tell.

Tom

I will see if I can get the serial number next Wed. I have a feeling that I am going to be rather overwhelmed during the day however with information overload and trying to take advantage of the chance to go through the boat with both the mechanical and hull guy.

If I am lucky, the KVH M5 will simply become an auxiliary anchor. I don't have any desire to have television on board. The boat isn't my home like so many, but an escape. My wife on the other hand, is a news junky and loves to watch cable news in the evening. She could find a whole lot of other things to do with the money we are spending on the boat, so it pays to keep her happy.

Intellian has been great. Cruise n BC. Use direct tv and never had a problem.

Dave,

The easiest way to get cable news to keep her happy is Sirius/XM. That's what we do. It was kind of throw back to the 30's when we listened to the Belmont Stakes last year huddled around the radio.

Tom

I am getting ready to replace my Directtv KVH M5. I am told it's soon going to be obsolete anyway. I am deciding between the TV5 and the HD version TV7. I think I was told the TV5 has one coax cable and the TV7 has four. Also something about the TV7 tracking two satellites so you can watch different programming simultaneously if you have two receivers. I'd really like to have HD but its a lot more money.

Is it just me, but how do you all justify $7-12K just to watch TV and that's before you even buy the TV.

Because they can...

How do we justify boats at all?

Kinda like people that own 2 private jets...ect...etc...

I know...you probably have support from the the crowd who always wonders why does anyone need a boat over 30 feet? Why do people need heat or air conditioning? Why a genset? Why?... Why?... Why?...

Because we aren't all the same...either in what we like to do or financial resources.

Captain Paul said:

I am getting ready to replace my Directtv KVH M5. I am told it's soon going to be obsolete anyway. I am deciding between the TV5 and the HD version TV7. I think I was told the TV5 has one coax cable and the TV7 has four. Also something about the TV7 tracking two satellites so you can watch different programming simultaneously if you have two receivers. I'd really like to have HD but its a lot more money.

Click to expand...

As I understand it, (which is likely wrong) DirectTV is still going to work with your M5. If that is the case, I think I would just keep using your M5 and DirectTV until it it completely dies or DirectTV does the same thing that Dish has done.

It would delay your purchase possibly long enough for a bit more shake out in the standards. The price of the HD antennas just may come down over time as well.

My understanding of this whole area is very weak however.

I don't have TV on my boat.
I do have TV in my motorhome, so some of the issues discussed here are the same for the RV community.
Shaw recently sent all of its customers, both Sat and cable, an offer of free, internet based TV to your android or i device. This solution will enable you to get HD quality anywhere you can get a cell signal of good quality or any other form of an internet signal.
Can you get an internet signal on any of the currently available sat receivers?

In-motion satellite data/internet is very, VERY expensive. The beam must be precise as the user is also transmitting to the satellite and not just receiving. We're talking mega yachts, shipping lines, cruise ships. It is also very expensive and not something the average user (who is paying the bill) would want to stream video on.

http://track-it-tv.com/mobile-internet-access.aspx

How about 2-way satellite TV Internet systems?

How about using Track It TV® with either of the 36" x 24" Starband (DishNET) or DirecPC (Hughes) dishes that provide both TV and and "2-way" broad-band Internet service? Unfortunately, these dishes are really too big and heavy for Track It TV®. But in addition, no tracking system to date, including our own very accurate Track It TV®, can keep these dishes aligned well enough with the satellite for high speed data transmission.
Professional installers tell us that absolutely NO movement can be tolerated. And electronic tuning for each location is required as well for these systems to work on land. Several customers have tried without success to use Track It TV® with both of these systems for 2-way Internet tracking on boats.
How about 1-way satellite TV Internet systems?

These services only handle 1-way responses from the Internet via satellite. They have been around for years and have not been popular, because requests to the Internet must go via a slow landline (or possibly cell or satellite phone), with fast responses coming back via satellite.
For mobile applications the per-minute charges for cell or satellite phone service make this an expensive and potentially slow solution. One manufacturer packaged a satellite phone and 1-way Internet system for mobile use for about $6000. We sold only a few Track It TV® units for the 1-way Internet solution several years ago, but are unsure if it is even still available for use with separate user supplied components to an individual as it was in the past.

They still have some software and hardware development to work on but this might be the holy grail for those looking for broadband underway:

Home - OneWeb | OneWorld

mbevins said:

Is it just me, but how do you all justify $7-12K just to watch TV and that's before you even buy the TV.

Click to expand...

Intellian I3

We installed an Intellian I3 in 2012 using DISH and all has worked great since. Only had to contact Intellian once and experienced very prompt and helpful service.

After following this thread I'm now wondering if my system will function properly next month when we launch for the 2016 season. Hopefully we won't experience any problems.

Avatar photo is from 2011 prior to mounting the Intellian unit above the radar.

Yeah, well I have to replace mine anyway because it was damaged but I really thought they said something about becoming obsolete in the next couple years. So, yeah it is still working now but I think it's lifetime is somewhat limited.

dhays said:

As I understand it, (which is likely wrong) DirectTV is still going to work with your M5. If that is the case, I think I would just keep using your M5 and DirectTV until it it completely dies or DirectTV does the same thing that Dish has done.

It would delay your purchase possibly long enough for a bit more shake out in the standards. The price of the HD antennas just may come down over time as well.

My understanding of this whole area is very weak however.

Click to expand...

Hey it's a really tough call but for example, sometimes there is a game on that I won't miss and I don't want to not be on my boat because of it. It also depends how often and what you use your boat for. If you just go to your boat to take it out for an amount of time and then come back and go home then it's probably harder to justify. If you live aboard or spend lots of time aboard it becomes something you probably want a little more.

mbevins said:

Is it just me, but how do you all justify $7-12K just to watch TV and that's before you even buy the TV.

Click to expand...