Hurricane experience

ranger42c said:

Hurricanes George (1998), Irene (1999), etc. happened on us when we were living near FLL and working in Miami... but we were sort of in between boats then (original boat still in MD during George, still shopping during Irene, etc.) so didn't really have to do much boat prep. Learned all about hurricane shutters, though...


Hurricane Isabel, 2003: Our home dock was very wide -- we essentially docked our previous boat "sideways" across three slips meant for ~24' boats -- so we tied the boat in the center with ~12 or so very long lines, walked away, hoped for the best. That kept the boat from getting beat up on piles, and worked well for the ~8' storm surge. Several of the neighbor boats in slips but on lifts... floated off... didn't land nicely...

Hurricane Irene, 2011: Current boat, different home marina... we moved from our own marina to one with new floating docks. Tied up with about 16 lines, walked away (had to evacuate that area), hoped for the best, worked out OK.

TS Sandy, 2012: Current boat, prep during the period when Sandy was still a Hurricane and still aimed at us... we moved to a more sheltered marina with new floating docks. Ditto ~16 lines, ended up staying on board (no evacuation order there, Sandy downgraded to TS, and the track changed to further away from here), worked out OK.

For Isabel and Irene, we stripped the boat -- canvas down, etc. -- but for Sandy we didn't have to do all that.

-Chris

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Your experiences are typical of those I've heard from others in Fort Lauderdale. Maybe we'll suddenly have the 500 year storm as opposed to the 100 year storm, but barring that a lot of the fears of both boat owners and home owners are based on conditions that don't seem to happen here. There are two aspects of hurricanes to prepare for.

The first is surge and the docks being constructed today are for the most part built to handle surge greater than Fort Lauderdale has seen. They are well secured floating docks with pilings taller than the greatest surges to hit here. Our home appears to be dangerously close to the water, but per the current flood maps and the 100 year histories, there hasn't been a surge that would reach it.

The second part is wind. There it seems to come down to how well the dock and boat in the water or the blocks and boat on land are secured. I would say that the best hurricane prepared shipyards have superior tie downs and blocks, but the majority of yards just lifting a boat out of the water and blocking it, do not. Location is also important as it seems the winds are typically stronger at the higher elevations of land. As to houses, most of those built on the coast here in recent years have been built to stand up to greater winds. They have windows designed for it or storm shutters. They have roofs designed for greater wind. Ultimately the greatest fear on the water and land is often flying objects.

It's great to read about actual experiences. Please keep the stories coming. We've asked these questions of others locally. It's interesting to hear what others have encountered in various parts of the country and what the results have been.

Just when you think you got hurricanes figured out...

The Holiday Inn (IIRC) on Dauphin Island near Mobile was built to be "hurricane proof"....it was till the architects failed to remember the swimming pool right in front...it floated out of the ground and acted like a battering ran until it collapsed that wing of the building.
In hurricane Frederick.

There is only one true way to avoid damage. Get as far away from wind and surge if you can. Even in areas not expecting a surge...stand by for other weird stuff.

One thing learned the hard way in NJ noreasters. Many thought their lagoons were protected by marsh from wave action...until water rises 2 feet above the marsh and now your has 2 foot chop in it till the tide recedes. Have salvaged many a boat because of the "unexpected".

psneeld said:

Just when you think you got hurricanes figured out...

The Holiday Inn (IIRC) on Dauphin Island near Mobile was built to be "hurricane proof"....it was till the architects failed to remember the swimming pool right in front...it floated out of the ground and acted like a battering ran until it collapsed that wing of the building.
In hurricane Frederick.

There is only one true way to avoid damage. Get as far away from wind and surge if you can. Even in areas not expecting a surge...stand by for other weird stuff.

One thing learned the hard way in NJ noreasters. Many thought their lagoons were protected by marsh from wave action...until water rises 2 feet above the marsh and now your has 2 foot chop in it till the tide recedes. Have salvaged many a boat because of the "unexpected".

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Move 500 miles inland and you'll likely avoid a hurricane. Might be trading for a few tornadoes, though. Fewer hurricanes on the West Coast, just more earthquakes.

I see where several NC people have mentioned Hazel. Long before I was born but you still hear stories. It caused damage well inland. It even led to 81 deaths in Toronto.

Growing up in Charlotte, NC, the only hurricane I remember really being a part of was Hugo in 1989. I was 19, had recently graduated from college, was working my first job outside the family and living in my first apartment by myself. I was a sound sleeper and really didn't realize what had happened until I woke to get ready for work. Power out, trees everywhere. I then got dressed and after the winds calmed a bit, I went out to my car to turn the radio on and find out what was going on. I watched the clock, worrying about being late for work. (Yes, I know...hurricane and all sounds stupid but I was young). Around 8 am things had calmed further and I drove to the office. No one was there, but I stayed, since unlike my apartment, there was power there. I tried to answer the phones but quickly found far more calls than I could handle and let them ring. Called my mother to find out she had power and all was fine. I turned the tv on in the conference room and found we had one station on the air. Watched it and ate snacks. Only food I had was all the stuff in the snack machines at the office. Mid afternoon I drove to the marina to check on my boat. It was in dry storage and fine. Then I got on the interstate and drove looking for an area with electricity and open restaurants. Ate dinner, checked into a motel and waited until morning to go see what was going on at my apartment. I had power when I got home but some areas took up to two weeks. I threw away the food in the refrigerator and grilled everything in the freezer which was all still very cold. Cooked enough for days, even having to freeze some of the cooked food.

Hugo only took 6 hours from landfall to travel the 150 miles inland to Charlotte. I was completely unprepared for it. We'd never had a hurricane. They happened on the coast. I wasn't scared by it as I didn't expect it and slept through the worst, just totally confused by it.

BandB said:

Your experiences are typical of those I've heard from others in Fort Lauderdale.

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Rereading my own note... I see it's probably not obvious that we were back up here on the Chesapeake for our 2003, 2011, and 2012 events.

I was in Miami on a house-hunting trip during Georges, essentially locked down in the hotel room... and it turned out to be a decent learning experience since we'd been a bit apprehensive about the job transfer and hurricane potential.

Aside from the 1999 version of Irene -- track prediction kept varying from one coats to the other, and then it finally came right over our house -- it turned out we didn't have much to worry about while living down there. It was a bit disconcerting watching rain water rise toward the house in front (couldn't drain off the streets fast enough) and in back (the alligator pond, don't ya know) at the same time. In the grand scheme of things, I think our "high ground" at the foundation was still maybe only a foot or so above actual street- (and lake-) level around us. And manually mounting the 35 or so sets of retro-fitted hurricane shutters was a bit of a pain.

I do dislike dealing with Hurricanes up here on the Chesapeake, though! Interferes with our cruising schedule!



-Chris

Been through several hurricanes and strong tropical storms. As a New England coastal cruiser, I've never had to ride out a major named storm at anchor, nor would I. We've been hit at anchor a couple of times in strong T-storms and gales.

One memorable event was a thunder storm, Great Salt Pond, Block Island, Summer 1970. Coast Guard station recorded wind gusts to 90 knots. Wife and I and dog anchored off Paynes Dock in 17' Venture swing keel sailboat. Anchor dragged and we ended up on rocks just below the Sullivan House. What a ride and experience, but we were young.

Prior to 1982, all my boats were trailerable, and I hauled them for any storms. Since then...

- Hurricane Gloria, September 1985. Storm tracked SouthEast of us. O'Day 28 "Puffin" rode it out on mooring. Removed all sails and doubled up on mooring pendants.

- Tropical Storm Henri, September 1985, direct hit on Watch Hill, O'Day 28 "Puffin" hauled prior to landfall. Re-launched day after storm.

- Bob, August 1991. Island Packet 31 "Puffin", broke from its mooring in Col. Willie Cove (Watch Hill), blew out to Pawcatuck Point, and came rushing back, missing Horace Island and barely missing the boatyard house bulkhead, landing smack dab on the old marine railroad tracks (pictured below). Boat pulled back into water with yard crane, and NO DAMAGE done. Three other sailboats broke loose and up on the rocks in the Cove. Several sailboats in the mooring field of the Watch Hill Yacht Club ending up above the bulkhead and on the grass in downtown Watch Hill. Lesson learned... haul or move.

- Perfect Storm, October 1991. Boat hauled just prior to Storm.

- NoName low-pressure system, October 2006. Gust over 60 knots for 2 days. New boat NT32 "Puffin", hanging on our 500# Dor Mor, with double 1" poly pendants. 40' Hunter Legend in front of us broke loose (thin, weak pendants, no chafe gear), and came down on Puffin, damage to port side, and Hunter anchor impaled in Puffin's transom. Boatyard crew came out to rig Hunter off my stern cleats to ride out the rest of storm (picture below). Speaks to strong mooring and strong Nordic Tug.

- Hurricane Earl, September 2010. Moved NT32 "Puffin" up the Thames River to Norwich CT, riding out Earl in marina slip with no issues. Local New London TV news had shots up "Puffin" rounding Avery Point, with the narrative..."boat owners making preparations for Earl". A couple of tall ships in the area where anchored just North of the Sub Base. Next day, returned to Watch Hill rolling down Westerly waves in 35 knots of wind (stupid move on my part). We past a bunch of crazies from Stonington Yacht Club sailing a race off Fishers Island. One boat ran aground on North Dumpling with a crew member getting killed by boom.

- Hurricane Irene, August 2011. Hauled "Puffin" day before storm hit. Re-launched the next day. Power out in the area for 7 days, so we took off cruising around North and South Fork of Long Island. Great weather after the storm. Got back home a week later with refrigerator and freezer full of compost.

- Super Storm Sandy, October 2012. We hauled the boat the day before storm hit. The storm surge came within a couple of inches of floating boats off their jack stands. At peak tide, there was 3 feet of water in the boatyard parking lot.

Only advice I can make is to track the storms closely to determine if you're on the weak or strong side, haul or move if necessary, and carry adequate insurance. At some point, like Sandy or the Great Hurricane of 1938, there's not much you can do to avoid loosing the boat.

Rode Irene and Sandy on the hook.

Irene was in VA off Deltaville. Set out 175' of chain and no problems.

Sandy was in North Port, NY in the highest clocked windows of the storm. Brought her near the east shore of the bay and put out 175' again. No problems. Made a nice hearty duel snubber and all was well.

Nsail...nice video...

Looks like you had more wind than I did down deep in a hurricane hole that the eye pretty much passed over top of.

I would say my highest gust barely made 50 and really no sustained winds as it was always swirling..I would have guessed 40 sustained

Here on the central gulf coast(South Louisiana), most everyone that wants to protect their boat, runs it up a river or canal or trailers it North. I take mine up the Vermilion river 25 miles to Abbeville, La and tie it with extra large lines to trees along the bank with the anchor set out in the middle of the river. The storm surge it what will kill most boats and folks. Of course I take everything at the camp and move t upstairs 15 foot above sea level. Have not had water yet in all these years in the camp, But have come close several times. Been thru some many storms(Camp built in 1954)I can't remember one from another. I don't put anymore wind gauges up, they just can't make it thru the storms. Lost a few sheets of tin off the camp once and had 4 derelict sailboats tangled up under the camp one time and lots of glass broken out from flying debris. I think I catch most of the debris from the marina and other camps South of me under my camp. Always a mess.
Best to respect Mother Nature. I would never put my boat on the hard unless I could trailer it out of harms way. Seen to many destroyed that way. Plan, plan, and plan. We're fortunate that we get a heads up about the track of these storms so arrangements can be made. God bless NOAA.

My little 23.5 Hunter sailboat survived hurricane Ike on her trailer in a marina storage area. We stripped all canvas and dropped the mast. We strapped her to the trailer so she couldn't float off it. We then anchored the trailer to the ground. Ike pushed 13' of storm surge and we had an entire marina in Baytown float above the pilings and boats, docks and all settled in a nearby park parking lot. My boat apparently floated 5' above ground and then came back down on her trailer wheels with only a few scratches from other boats floating past and across the road. I say apparently 5' by looking at the water marks on the buildings nearby.

Kevin

I rode out Rita, north of Sabine Pass, right after Katrina destroyed NOLA. I said I'd never do it again but have rode out a few lesser storms since. My advice, do everything possible for the boat, then run fast and far, preferably ahead of the crowd. If Rita had come in where they predicted the death toll would have been astounding from stranded motorists stuck on congested highways.

kulas44 said:

I rode out Rita, north of Sabine Pass, right after Katrina destroyed NOLA. I said I'd never do it again but have rode out a few lesser storms since. My advice, do everything possible for the boat, then run fast and far, preferably ahead of the crowd. If Rita had come in where they predicted the death toll would have been astounding from stranded motorists stuck on congested highways.

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The Gulf is very different than the East Coast due to the low lying areas covering so much territory.

As to evacuation, people sometimes get confused, but evacuation is based on surge, not the winds. In Fort Lauderdale, East of the ICW is an evacuation area for almost any hurricane. We're on the West side of the ICW, which is an evacuation area only for major hurricanes, typically CAT 3 or higher. Once you go about 10 blocks from the water, then it's not an evacuation zone for any hurricane. Our office is not in an evacuation zone even though it's very close to the New River. We talk about hurricane plans for our boats, we have them for our home and businesses and ourselves, all subject to change based on the real situation.

As you indicate, the place one doesn't want to be when it strikes is on the road.

Nsail said:

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That can't be how snubbers are normally set up, are they?

From what I recall about setting up anchor systems in my climbing days, the forces on the ropes as they made the turn through the hawse holes could have been far greater than a straight line pull. If I'm right, its no wonder the snubber failed.

You can see what I mean in the chart below...where the forces on the rope shown on the video could have been 500% greater at the turn through the hawse than a straight line pull;

MurrayM said:

You can see what I mean in the chart below...where the forces on the rope shown on the video could have been 500% greater at the turn through the hawse than a straight line pull;

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A rope going through a hawse like the snubber in the video would have a higher load, but not 500%. The highest it could be would be 200% of the load, but that would be with a 180 degree turn. The snubber in the video is probably turning less that 90 degrees, so probably roughly about 120-130% of the load.

I think the bigger problem than load is chafe. Since the distance from the cleat to the hawse is substantial, the row will saw back and forth on the hawse as it stretches. This is a recipe for chafe as they show on the video.

I should have put the calcultions I was proposing as MurrayM did. I think these are the correct ones to use for this situation since the hawse is basically a turning block.

Turning block loads

Rain Dog said:

I should have put the calcultions I was proposing as MurrayM did. I think these are the correct ones to use for this situation since the hawse is basically a turning block.

Turning block loads

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Thanks a bunch for that link. The only difference being, as you said earlier, that chafing was happening as opposed to running smoothy over a pulley.

It's no wonder snubbers fail as often as they do then, if the loads (as in this case) are more than expected...plus nylon gets weaker when it gets wet, or through heat generated by repetitive loading cycles, or going over a sharp turn where the outer fibers are doing "more work" than the fibers on the inside of the radius.

Being in Florida on the South East Coast, if I could I would run to Stuart and wait and see. Of course you can only do this if you are able to take the boat and run from a storm. In Stuart you can go North, South or West across the lake. Options are good. Being where the storm isn't is very good.
Having been through a storm or two just 25 miles from the center can make a giant difference in conditions. Being 100 miles away and it's just a very windy day. I would not want a storm to chase me up coast but running West is a real option. Also note that bridges stop operating at a certain point pre storm, so you have to stay well ahead or risk getting stuck between bridges in unfamiliar territory.
Here in South Florida those that remember Andrew (1992) know that while rising water is a major concern, enough wind can create some real devastation. While water rose high enough to float large boats onto US1, winds flattened entire subdivisions 10 miles inland.
I would never choose to haul my boat for a storm, seen what can happen, don't want to be there.
As others have mentioned, sometimes its the other boats that are the problem. At one time when I kept my boat in a canal off the ICW the neighbors worked together and we made sure everyone had battened down and tied up for storm conditions, and pitched in to secure boats with owners MIA. In the Keys we would run up into the mangrove canals, there are plenty of them, and tie off all over into the roots. I sat out a storm like that once and there was a lot going on above but just a stiff breeze in the canal. Good thing about this is that you are usually in there with just one or two other boats, not much worry about googans dragging down on you.

MurrayM said:

Thanks a bunch for that link. The only difference being, as you said earlier, that chafing was happening as opposed to running smoothy over a pulley.

It's no wonder snubbers fail as often as they do then, if the loads (as in this case) are more than expected...plus nylon gets weaker when it gets wet, or through heat generated by repetitive loading cycles, or going over a sharp turn where the outer fibers are doing "more work" than the fibers on the inside of the radius.

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We get around that by using dyneema from the cleat to just outside the hawse, then nylon from there to the anchor chain. This means almost no chafe, plus no noise.

"right after Katrina destroyed NOLA"

Mr. K, with all due respect Katrina destroyed the Mississippi coast, inland for miles, while NOLA got lots of rain, and a levee broke, flooding the place. No fun for either place, but MS took the brunt of the winds and tidal surge - over 20ft to be exact.
Also all beware of salvaged boats from these storms - some good deals can be had, but go in with eyes wide open.

Rain Dog said:

We get around that by using dyneema from the cleat to just outside the hawse, then nylon from there to the anchor chain. This means almost no chafe, plus no noise.

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Makes total sense

You are correct, it was much more destructive west of NOLA, its just that we remember all the crying and whining from NewOrleans afterwards. Didnt really here much from the coastal communities, like Cameron, Biloxy, etc. They just set to work rebuilding.