My Westerbeke struggles

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Mule said:
After reflecting, considering the great service my dock mate got on twin cat turbo problems by ACE I think they saw a 1982 Present sedan trawler with a 5kw old genset and the made me a non priority. Just wish they had told me to look elsewhere.

I learned something here. If the business's representative gives a comittment, they do not mean it (if it is not within pick a number, 2,3,5 business days) accept and keep looking for a better deal. When I give my word, I mean it....in the past....no more. I will look after my needs.... I was raised that if you gave your word, then that was it. The world has passed me by.
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I believe there are still people that will stand by their word. True it is slimmer but I know a few.....and live by that code.


The learning point here is if they break the verbal agreement...then it shold have been in writing (which I never really agree with either for just a service call ) then given a second chance of a couple days....then after that I give them in writing....if you show up and XXX is working the genset...tough ****, you were notified in writing on mm/dd/yyyy.
 
PS. Nailed it, verbal and handshakes do not cut it.
 
A great way to avoid the heartache and disappointment is to develop the skills and do your own work.

At this point I farm out big things like bottom paint, and do the rest myself.

That way the job gets done right.
 
ksanders said:
A great way to avoid the heartache and disappointment is to develop the skills and do your own work.

At this point I farm out big things like bottom paint, and do the rest myself.

That way the job gets done right.
Click to expand...

You mean farm out the NASTY things like bottom paint!!

I still do my own bottom paint. Yuk.
 
Ski in NC said:
You mean farm out the NASTY things like bottom paint!!

I still do my own bottom paint. Yuk.
Click to expand...

Yep !

In all seriousness...

Being in small town Alaska, I have found that I can troubleshoot something faster on my own than suffering the down time waiting for a professional to schedule me in.

No, I cannot do it as fast as a guy that does it for a living, but I can fix things quick enough, and I enjoy troubleshooting.
 
Mule said:
After reflecting, considering the great service my dock mate got on twin cat turbo problems by ACE I think they saw a 1982 Present sedan trawler with a 5kw old genset and the made me a non priority. Just wish they had told me to look elsewhere.

I learned something here. If the business's representative gives a comittment, they do not mean it (if it is not within pick a number, 2,3,5 business days) accept and keep looking for a better deal. When I give my word, I mean it....in the past....no more. I will look after my needs.... I was raised that if you gave your word, then that was it. The world has passed me by.
Click to expand...

This - they are busy and knew that your job was probably a few hundred bucks at most - the other jobs lined up are worth thousands. You can believe a guy calls in with some work to do on his new sporthfish and you are getting bumped. The problem is he doesn't really want to deny you outright because it looks bad for his dealership but he really wishes you would find someone else hence the long wait time followed by long wait time...
 
This is the high season in this area as far as marine businesses go and with the low price of diesel this is a banner year for boat yards and such. Not surprising as to the wait time, however better communications would be helpful.

My experience is that it is hard for a shop or any small business to outright say that they are swamped and don't want to take on more work (small jobs) as they all to soon it will be slow times and they have that prospect fixed in their head.

I see an ACE truck in our marina several days a week working on transient boats often after hours and on weekends fwiw.

I recoil at Westy part prices but I don't ever recall not being able to get one overnight when needed, anywhere, so that's something.

Vero to Ft. P is no more then 20 min drive under the worst of conditions, I drive it all the time.


It sounds like you got fixed up a lot cheaper then it could have been, way to go, now enjoy the weather.
 
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By using a reliable yard for the past many years to do a variety of tasks, we have found they respond very quickly when services are required. Establishing and maintaining that kind of relationship has made our boating life very easy.

Like Mule, when away from "home" we have found little success when approaching a new yard for one time assistance.

Last week I called our local yard up and asked when the boat could be hauled and normal bottom work done - it is on the hard now and will be splashed tomorrow.

Cold calling a yard who doesn't know you from Adam and doesn't view you as a serious or repeat customer is fraught with disappointment. Using the internet to whine about and trash a company insures non existent service in the future.
 
Well, I stand by my last post. If a comittment is made, I will not believe them. I will give back the same comittment and say, schedule it. Then I will keep calling and looking. First one there gets the job.

Ace did a great job, excellent service in replacing 2 turbos on my friends Egg Harbor 2slips down. I just was not good enough for them. I will remember this and when slow season gets here betcha I cost them some jobs.
 
Mule, the first hint was when they told you they were "extremely busy". Add to that many uncontrollable events that can happen in the engine service business. They could be doing a large job and have things go wrong, parts not show up, employee wreck the truck or call in sick, bolts break off, a long time customer call with an emergency job etc, etc.

Add to that the fact that in this business work seems to come in "waves". Buried in work, more work shows up, bust a$$ to get things done, then for no reason, a quiet spell.

When buried you have to prioritize. Those that come first: Jobs already under way, transients stopped due to problems, established customers.

Lower priority: Liveaboards not under way, folks that complain about $200 head gaskets, folks that badmouth your firm on the net.

Should they have communicated better? Sure. But when buried you simply CAN NOT do everything you should. That is what it means to be buried.

Did they make a commitment? No not really. They said "earliest they could be out there would be three weeks". That does not mean they would be there in three weeks. That "earliest" bit is relevant.

Now you have badmouthed a firm that seems to have a good rep. That does not bode well for you getting anyone else to work for you.
 
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Yeah, a phone call before breaking the 2nd promised comittment is a REAL inconvience isn't it?

Do you you support the guy that took a $13.00 pill and priced it $750 after buying the firm that was the only supplier? How much is too much for a head gasket if $200 is not unreasonable? $500? $1000? $5000? I need to get in some kind of business and find the right, very understanding tolerant customers.

I agree with you about extremely busy..I was naive. I should have did as I did then kept looking for a better deal. I was not perceptive enough to read between the lines that my little CS job was good enough for them. He, would have, I would have been, far better off had he just said so outright. I would have thanked him and moved on, but he wanted to keep his options open. In the process he made a very resentful non customer, all really because he was not organized enough to have someone make a call, or guts enough to say no.. Any business gets enough of them....wellll they go the way of the wind.

This was all needless, but I got educated.
 
Well Mule, time to build a bridge - get over it and get on. :flowers:
 
Done!
 
Personally, I don't put up with dawdling service either. Legitimate mistakes and unavoidable delays are understandable; being treated as if I don't matter has consequences.

 
Surley bartenders either, huh.
 
A couple months ago I needed 2 parts from WB. I tried the SW FL shop where I bought the same parts last year. After 2 weeks, the call came in "discontinued" and refunded my CC charge. I tried to order online. The site said ordered and even "shipped". Two more weeks later, no parts showup. Came back discontinued again. Visited a local shop who called the distributer. 2 days later, the distributer said the parts were "No Longer Available". Can't order them.
So i do a little more research and find the exact same parts are used on the gen sets rolling down the assembly line TODAY on CURRENT models.
I call the factory who immediately tries to divert me back to the FL distributer. NO, NO, NO!!! Wait! Ive gone that route several times. Please can I speak to someone in charge of parts there. I get forwarded to some manager voicemail at WB and beg for them to sell me these parts made of "unobtainium". Someone else calls me back and says, "We're sorry, can't sell them to you".
Somewhere along this quest, someone recommended calling Broward Armature in Ft Lauderdale. They had them in stock!!! My heros! I order two the day before I have to leave the country for two weeks. Two weeks later I just gotten through customs in the US and my phone rings. My local shop says the 2 parts just showed up there without being ordered and do I still want them. YES!!! Now I have 4.
Who runs a business like this?
 
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Next time tell them you are the captain and you need the boat fixed because the owner is coming.
 
In 35 years of self employment I have missed one commitment (I was rear ended by a cop car) and was an hour late for another (rear ended by a drunk). I frequently arrive an hour early and read the paper in the truck as I have an unnatural fear of being late.

The price ? it is what it is for whatever reason but a commitment should be written in stone, no written contract required.
 
Archie...ever try Canyon Club?

They are a Westerberg dealer and have done well by me with parts....the one guy was there (maybe still) forever and knew the part switchover.

I also have seen a few websites where parts labeled discontinued had "replacement part" listed. Not all but a few. What parts were you looking for so the rest of us can be prepared? Thanks.
 
High Wire said:
A couple months ago I needed 2 parts from WB. I tried the SW FL shop where I bought the same parts last year. After 2 weeks, the call came in "discontinued" and refunded my CC charge. I tried to order online. The site said ordered and even "shipped". Two more weeks later, no parts showup. Came back discontinued again. Visited a local shop who called the distributer. 2 days later, the distributer said the parts were "No Longer Available". Can't order them.
So i do a little more research and find the exact same parts are used on the gen sets rolling down the assembly line TODAY on CURRENT models.
I call the factory who immediately tries to divert me back to the FL distributer. NO, NO, NO!!! Wait! Ive gone that route several times. Please can I speak to someone in charge of parts there. I get forwarded to some manager voicemail at WB and beg for them to sell me these parts made of "unobtainium". Someone else calls me back and says, "We're sorry, can't sell them to you".
Somewhere along this quest, someone recommended calling Broward Armature in Ft Lauderdale. They had them in stock!!! My heros! I order two the day before I have to leave the country for two weeks. Two weeks later I just gotten through customs in the US and my phone rings. My local shop says the 2 parts just showed up there without being ordered and do I still want them. YES!!! Now I have 4.
Who runs a business like this?
Click to expand...


==========================================

Westerbeke and ACA Marine.

Thank you, I have been made the goat for disparaging these "ethical hard working business people". I am gratified to hear someone else has verbalized the same kind of crap a I put up with by the Westerbeke Mafia.
 
Mule

My comments are going to echo others here so you might plug your ears. :)

As far as parts prices, well parts are part of how a business makes a profit. With a competitive market pulling down the initial sales price of equipment to a point where it is barely profitable, parts sales are an important high profit source of revenue for a company. If you do not like parts prices, then buy a different brand of generator, but I warn you that the grass is not always greener on the other side.

As far as Westerbeke corporation... your complaint will fall into the 5% of customers that every business gets that are frankly not worth their time. Yes, they would rather loose your $200 per year in revenue rather than listen to you. Sorry, but anybody that owns a business knows this.

Regarding the performance of the local repair dealership... The problem is you. You as a customer bring in zero revenue to their company. You have no real relationship with them, and are only calling them because you are in over your head with this one repair. Even if they did a great job you would probably micro analyze their invoice, take up allot of their time, and still never become a regular customer.

They have regular customers that they derive 90% of their bread and butter revenue from. Why would they, especially during their busy season break loose and come take care of your old tired generator.

If you are talking about a head gasket, you're looking at the strong potential that the generator is economically at end of life anyway. They know from experience that customers like you are not going to make them any money, and that they will have to "marry" you over this generator issue.

I know you do not want to hear this, but you are the kind of customer that service organizations do not want to do business with. So they choose not to.
 
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All valid points Kevin, but in my opinion it seems the problem is that the dealer promised to send someone out then never followed up. If they had said they were too busy or just didn't want to do that job maybe it would have had a different outcome. But they chose to keep this one potential customer hanging on hoping that they would work on his genny. I would have been equally upset. And I have had truck repair shops tell me that they could work on my motorhome but if a truck comes in they would stop mine and get the commercial customer back on the road. I understood that and thanked them and took my business elsewhere. I wasn't upset and they weren't either.
 
ksanders said:
Mule

My comments are going to echo others here so you might plug your ears. :)

As far as parts prices, well parts are part of how a business makes a profit. With a competitive market pulling down the initial sales price of equipment to a point where it is barely profitable, parts sales are an important high profit source of revenue for a company. If you do not like parts prices, then buy a different brand of generator, but I warn you that the grass is not always greener on the other side.

As far as Westerbeke corporation... your complaint will fall into the 5% of customers that every business gets that are frankly not worth their time. Yes, they would rather loose your $200 per year in revenue rather than listen to you. Sorry, but anybody that owns a business knows this.

Regarding the performance of the local repair dealership... The problem is you. You as a customer bring in zero revenue to their company. You have no real relationship with them, and are only calling them because you are in over your head with this one repair. Even if they did a great job you would probably micro analyze their invoice, take up allot of their time, and still never become a regular customer.

They have regular customers that they derive 90% of their bread and butter revenue from. Why would they, especially during their busy season break loose and come take care of your old tired generator.

If you are talking about a head gasket, you're looking at the strong potential that the generator is economically at end of life anyway. They know from experience that customers like you are not going to make them any money, and that they will have to "marry" you over this generator issue.

I know you do not want to hear this, but you are the kind of customer that service organizations do not want to do business with. So they choose not to.
Click to expand...

From another post:

Do you you support the guy that took a $13.00 pill and priced it $750 after buying the firm that was the only supplier? How much is too much for a head gasket if $200 is not unreasonable? $500? $1000? $5000? I need to get in some kind of business and find the right, very understanding tolerant customers.
===============================

I pulled my boat for a hull inspection. Found I needed a cutlass bearing and associated work. Had ACE measured up I would have called them first. That is 2 jobs they missed out on. There will be more they will miss. I live mostly in Fort Pierce, the wife and I have an extensive network. I will NEVER reccomended them.
All they had to do was call and not ignore, or be upfront from the beginning, rather than leaving me hanging.
 
This thread reminds me, I am overdue on taking two dozen doughnuts into my favorite yard. And their lead mechanic is ready for a gratis bottle of Bushmills.

Took one of my cars in for an oil change today at the dealer. No charge at all with 100% full synthetic added and a free car wash to boot.

Life is good with so many nice people around. Easy to forget the 2% bad apples, but they do add a little humor to the he day. Much easier to try a :flowers:
 
ksanders said:
Mule

My comments are going to echo others here so you might plug your ears. :)

As far as parts prices, well parts are part of how a business makes a profit. With a competitive market pulling down the initial sales price of equipment to a point where it is barely profitable, parts sales are an important high profit source of revenue for a company. If you do not like parts prices, then buy a different brand of generator, but I warn you that the grass is not always greener on the other side.

As far as Westerbeke corporation... your complaint will fall into the 5% of customers that every business gets that are frankly not worth their time. Yes, they would rather loose your $200 per year in revenue rather than listen to you. Sorry, but anybody that owns a business knows this.

Regarding the performance of the local repair dealership... The problem is you. You as a customer bring in zero revenue to their company. You have no real relationship with them, and are only calling them because you are in over your head with this one repair. Even if they did a great job you would probably micro analyze their invoice, take up allot of their time, and still never become a regular customer.

They have regular customers that they derive 90% of their bread and butter revenue from. Why would they, especially during their busy season break loose and come take care of your old tired generator.

If you are talking about a head gasket, you're looking at the strong potential that the generator is economically at end of life anyway. They know from experience that customers like you are not going to make them any money, and that they will have to "marry" you over this generator issue.

I know you do not want to hear this, but you are the kind of customer that service organizations do not want to do business with. So they choose not to.
Click to expand...

I think your comment on parts prices is fair - god knows the automobile folks have perfected it. However, it seems to me what he was really upset about was that they blew him off and I think that is more than a fair point. If someone tells me they will be out to look at my genset/cable box/water meter/ car whatever I expect them to be out at least reasonably close to when they said they will be. I'm willing to give lots of leeway (jobs take longer than expected etc. it happens) but we are both busy people and I have to take time off work or whatever to be available etc. If they didn't want the job or couldn't take the job or weren't sure they would be able to do it the onus is on them to communicate that so other arrangements can be made. If my mechanic is too busy to get me in for an oil change (and it happens, and I know he isn't making much money on it) then he will just tell me and I'll run up to the dealership and have it done and save five bucks to boot.
 
Sunchaser,

I do that in Wrangell for the people that work on my boat, it's a combination of beer or a case of iced tea for the ones that don't drink and a couple dozen donuts. What that got me last summer was being at the dock the morning after I got in to pull the transmission, replace a seal (I'd ordered the previous week), and install it before the close of business. I give them a punch list to do over the winter when they can fit it in with the only goal of being done by April. Seems to work well.

Tom
 
Mule said:
I pulled my boat for a hull inspection. Found I needed a cutlass bearing and associated work. Had ACE measured up I would have called them first. That is 2 jobs they missed out on. There will be more they will miss. I live mostly in Fort Pierce, the wife and I have an extensive network. I will NEVER reccomended them.
All they had to do was call and not ignore, or be upfront from the beginning, rather than leaving me hanging.
Click to expand...

So to be clear, they gave you a start work date 21 days away, said they would call, they never call and you never called them either before the 21 days were up to reconfirmed?
 
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