Will this Replace Flares?

For offshore I carry the large 35MM parachute flares .

These are really visible for miles and the chute keeps them up for a while.

The available colors allow for non emergency use.

White = here I am. RED = help

There expensive , so usually well out of date , so a bag of crap flares that can be cheaply replaced are for the USCG visits.

A bright strobe on a flashlight might save on purchasing crap flairs to wave at the USCG .

I think you can break this down to 2 points: compliance and function.

Clearly this meets compliance and should be better as it can run for hours.

Function is a more important issue. In the '70s when I started boating, choices for most mariners in distress were limited to VHR radio and SSB radio for a very small percentage of boats. So vessels in trouble were probably much more dependent on flares to signal other boats as it was more difficult in many areas to contact the USCG etc. Now a days, I think the flares are likely the last thing I'm going to choose unless it's to signal a boat within sight of me. Would probably start with the VHF or the DSC function on the VHF. If I'm in distress, the first thing I'm doing is turning on the EPIRB.

Ted

I will always carry the flares. You have both the incredible brightness of the "Burn" but you also have the billowing smoke that can be seen from several miles away, especially from a search plane.

We have one onboard. It does meet all requirement as a signaling device, stores easily, and is easy to deploy- just tighten the clear lens till the light comes on.

It does flash SOS. The manufacturer states the battery will last 24 hours- some real world testing has shown that 10 days is more realistic.

Never going back to ignitable signal devices.

Pgitug said:

I will always carry the flares. You have both the incredible brightness of the "Burn" but you also have the billowing smoke that can be seen from several miles away, especially from a search plane.

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Hope the billowing smoke you are talking about is from a smoke flare....and even those is a 15 knot wind are very difficult to spot from a rescue aircraft. Surface craft might see the smudge at the horizon...but not from a regular flare.

Bottom line on being rescued....

Daytime...electronic device such as EPIRB or PLB...everything else is luck or they fly over you. Even Flir is extremely limited.

Night...electronic is still best but any light source is great. Flir possibly is better but still is limited unless visibility is way down.

So my way of thinking is carry pretty much the minimum the USCG or authorities want. But put enough coin into several PLBs/EPIRBs and a good DSC VHF with high db gain to feel comfy as every other recue device is several quantum leaps below in assisting a rescue.

Old thread but I just checked the expiration dates on the flares in my new boat. Amazingly, the PO had a full kit that won't expire until August of this year. After that, I am no longer in compliance. I am very interested in the electronic signal. As others have mentioned, I have never been comfortable with a bunch of ignitable material on the boat.

There is also a SOLAS floating smoke signal on board, expired. I think I will keep it and the last batch of pyrotechnics as back-up and use the eletronic and flag to meet USCG requirements. Like most of us, there are a lot of expired flares on board. How does one responsibly dispose of these?

dhays said:

How does one responsibly dispose of these?

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Call your local FD. They burn em.

Two trains of thought regarding flares.

In a small boat with a 8' height of eye a handheld light is only visible around 3.2 miles on a good night. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j4Wjuhq_tNYNWesTMzwn3crs5pT4XljQOuw6ty5PLv8/pub

You want to be seen. Any light device will work on a good day when visibility is good.

However, on crappy sea days a small boat is a bitch to see. Nothing like throwing a couple thousand candlepower light 1000' up in the air to increase the visible horizon. But they can only be effective when you actually SEE someone or are near land. The higher up a light is the further it will be seen. And a parachute type will keep it up longer too.

We bought one of these over the winter. Had our boat inspected by the Power Squadron this past weekend. The inspector, who clearly has been around for a long time, said he now has one on his boat. We will keep the old flares on board, but they expire in July and I have no plans to get news ones.

Compared to flares, what this device won't do is burn your hands or drop molten material down the sides of your boat.


You can trust a child with it.

There is a really good alternative that I have had on my boat for over a year now, its made by Daniamant and is called the Odeo flare Mk 3. It is battery powered and uses LED's. It is the most powerful LED flare on the market.

https://daniamant.com/product/products-2/survivor-location-lights/led-flare-evds/odeo-flare/

I think I'll keep my flairs, too, but looks like some neat alternatives or to be used in addition to.

Another thing not mentioned, is the flair gun can be used to deter intruders and requires no license or permits.

Seevee said:

Another thing not mentioned, is the flair gun can be used to deter intruders

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In movies maybe.

I might add that in addition to the LED torches. sunshine orange torch is certainly more visible, I believe also in the dark. I believe nothing is too much then, like a real emergency, I would also like to think of mere financial savings.


great that the development does not continue ...


we have been approved in land waters, the coast and the open sea is not accepted as the only, required still pyro flare and parachute flares

I checked a little bit of this case. I found the test with the laser (LED?) sos and a traditional torch. Unfortunately, this affects the new toy. you can watch this video

harvardrvr said:

There is a really good alternative that I have had on my boat for over a year now, its made by Daniamant and is called the Odeo flare Mk 3. It is battery powered and uses LED's. It is the most powerful LED flare on the market.

https://daniamant.com/product/products-2/survivor-location-lights/led-flare-evds/odeo-flare/

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But is it USCG approved as a replacement for pyrotechnic flares?

This is from their website:

Regulations

The Odeo Flare™ is designed with consideration to SOLAS requirements, making it a genuine alternative to the pyrotechnic red hand held flare. The US Coast Guard is now leading the world in developing standards for electronic Visual Distress Signals (eVDS) as a replacement for the hand held pyrotechnic flare. The Odeo Flare™ also outputs an SOS signal during its flash pattern as described in Annex 4 to COLREGS, and is thus an internationally recognised distress signal.​

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It would be interesting to know how many people here have actually had to use and rely on flares to be rescued from a sinking boat. Tell the truth now.

WesK said:

It would be interesting to know how many people here have actually had to use and rely on flares to be rescued from a sinking boat. Tell the truth now.

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Probably right up there with how many people have used a pfd to keep from drowning. No to both for me.

Ted

WesK said:

It would be interesting to know how many people here have actually had to use and rely on flares to be rescued from a sinking boat. Tell the truth now.

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Read this u.s coastcard statistic 2015, emergency signs may be needed at other times to sink. machines break down, sick case, etc ...

surprising number of you have died at sea each year of

Accident Statistic

I had boat insurance over 30v I never needed ... is not aaioita which must be in order. In addition to existing international maritime rules and strict liability of the master of the vessel it is big or small.

North Baltic sea said:

Read this u.s coastcard statistic 2015, emergency signs may be needed at other times to sink. machines break down, sick case, etc ...

surprising number of you have died at sea each year of

Accident Statistic

I had boat insurance over 30v I never needed ... is not aaioita which must be in order. In addition to existing international maritime rules and strict liability of the master of the vessel it is big or small.

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Interesting stats, but often hard to interpret, or meaningless. Need more "rates" instead of raw numbers. For example a fiberglass boat has WAY hight number of accidents than a wooden boat, doesn't mean it's less safe. And most of the boats in accidents are small... doesn't mean they're dangerous... there's just a lot more of them. But fun to play with it anyway.

Now operator inattention, incompetent or poor lookout are high on the list... we can all learn from that.

However, safety is getting better. Overall, if one pays attention and is competent, boating can be extremely safe.

As for insurance, has little to do with safety, perhaps a negative effect... one doesn't worry quite as much if it's uninsured. As a general rule, I don't insure anything, except for basic liability and can argue strongly for that. I'll spend my money on training.

WesK said:

It would be interesting to know how many people here have actually had to use and rely on flares to be rescued from a sinking boat. Tell the truth now.

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My point is, with VHF, DSC and other devices, the likelihood of a pyrotechnic flare being the device that stands between you and death seems pretty slim to me.

A guy at my marina installed a new VHF on his boat and decided to see what would happen if h pushed the little red DSC emergency button.

Within a few minutes, a USCG RIB with ten crew members, flashing lights and a machine gun came flying up the river at WOT and pulled into the slip next to him.

It's about ten miles from their base and there's no chance they would have seen a flare.

North Baltic sea said:

Read this u.s coastcard statistic 2015, emergency signs may be needed at other times to sink. machines break down, sick case, etc ...

surprising number of you have died at sea each year of

Accident Statistic

I had boat insurance over 30v I never needed ... is not aaioita which must be in order. In addition to existing international maritime rules and strict liability of the master of the vessel it is big or small.

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I love statistics.

Fatality rate per 100,000 registered boats went up in 2015 over 2014. We could be less safe in 2015. More likely we used are boats more in 2015 as fuel cost dropped 50%

Apparently the larger the boat, the safer you are (less fatalities). More likely the number of boats in a given size range decreases as the size gets larger.

Boats without motors (canoes and kayaks) appear to be quite dangerous. Apparently 30% of all boating fatalities occurred on boats without motors.

Hope the government didn't spend a lot of money producing this.

Ted

O C Diver said:

I love statistics.

Fatality rate per 100,000 registered boats went up in 2015 over 2014. We could be less safe in 2015. More likely we used are boats more in 2015 as fuel cost dropped 50%

Apparently the larger the boat, the safer you are (less fatalities). More likely the number of boats in a given size range decreases as the size gets larger.

Boats without motors (canoes and kayaks) appear to be quite dangerous. Apparently 30% of all boating fatalities occurred on boats without motors.

Hope the government didn't spend a lot of money producing this.

Ted

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Ted, Yes, I am aware of the kayak and canoe stats, and quite frankly they scare me. I'm an avid kayaker, probably 2 to 4 times per week, and hang out with a group of other kayakers. I get a bit nervous when one of use drinks a bit too much... seems that's where the high risk is.

However, we are safety conscious..... most of us use portable VHFs, have the life jackets (and throw pillows), and more than the required lights at night. Thinking of an epirb, but have never failed to hail someone on the VHF if needed. However, the CG answers calls, they are not good at responding.

I do CGAUX safety checks and will accept by CG req. both flares and the lights. I personally carry a light and orange smoke flares or smoke canisters and advise others to do the same. My reasoning is as follows during the day flares or lights are not all that visible that is why the orange day distress flag comes with the light. while orange smoke is very visible. At night how long does a flare last? Not long the light unit has a long life. Does everybody aboard know how to deploy a flare will they burn themselves or ignite something? The light is easy to deploy with no further danger to ship or crew. I personally think it is time to ditch the flares for inland and near coastal waters. Large parachute flares that can be seen from afar may still have a place in open waters along with a light for rescue crews to home in on. I hope all are aware of the CG app for cell phones if not its free check it out. One of the many features is a distress button, press it and the nearest CG responds. At one time the CG discouraged the use of cell phones things change check this out even kayakers and paddle boarders may be carrying cell phones.

WesK said:

But is it USCG approved as a replacement for pyrotechnic flares?

This is from their website:


It seems to say a lot while leaving official approval out.[/LEFT]

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That's because it is not approved.

Orange smokes are good if the wind is light, over 10 to 15 knots and they are really only good to tell the helo which way the wind is blowing.

Pyro blows most electric lights away, but a laser pointed in the right direction on a clear night is pretty amazing.

In 20 years of searching for craft, very few flares were actually the distress signal that initiated a successful rescue, and even less directed me to the distressed craft.

Not sure how night vision goggles have changed the game...not much from case studies I have been reading.

I have the minimum flares required and rely on redundant electronics to really save me.

LED Flare

It does flash a sos signal and is very bright.

The concept of distress lights are 2 fold...

1. Alert.....alert someone you are in trouble. Lights are dimmer usually than Pyro, but last longer.

2. Locate.... search units are already alerted, and if nearby, the visual will bring them in.

Electronic means will alert, then bring them in from WAYYYYY further away than any visual means would. Plus weather is much less of a factor for electronic.

I would never remotely bet my life on a flare or light. I carry the minimum required plus oldies and spend a few months beer money on DSC radios with good antennas and plbs. EPIIRB on the close horizon.

BandB said:

That's because it is not approved.

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We in the CGAUX have been instructed to accept those lights that meet CG requirements as stated on manufacturers labeling. The individual lights do not carry a specific approval but will be accepted as flair replacement provided the day signal is also aboard. I keep my old flairs. so I have belt and suspenders flares- light -flag - smoke bombs-three radios one mobile and two cell phones with CG apps. maybe I should also put a laser in my flare box?

BandB said:

That's because it is not approved.

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That video is old, you can no longer get the laser flare. For obvious reasons, there was a major design flaw, lasers and aircraft don't mix at night, especially on NVG's, so LED's replaced the laser. As for the USCG certification, as it was made in the UK and certified there, I'm not sure if the manufacturer has done the USCG certification process yet.