What gears you got?

Ok, let's see where this goes...

More threads on here about toilet paper than transmissions...

ZF?
Hurth?
Paragon?
Velvet Drive?
Capitol Marine?

In line, drop center, Vee?

What is your engine, transmission combo and what don't you like about the gears?

Velvet drive CR2's behind my Lehman 135's. These are drop center, my particular model has the output shaft about 1.5 inches lower than the input shaft. There's really nothing I don't like about them. They're very reliable behind the Lehmans.

Ken

"More threads on here about toilet paper than transmissions..." Very funny, but unfortunately very true!

Boat still in design phase:
- Dong I gear
- Agco Sisu prime mover

However, just happened across the fuel/load curves for a typical 40 yr old Gardner. They are more fuel efficient than our brand-new microcomputer controlled high-tech iron! Damn. Now it's got me second guessing my decision....

ZF 280-1A
Center drop with 7 degree down angle
2.476:1
John Deere 4045TFM75 135 HP

Only complaint is that you can't get the 7 degree down angle in 3:1 ratio (available without down angle).
Many of the slower trawlers would benefit from 3.5:1 or 4:1 gears. The RPM of engines has steadily increased in the last 15 years but transmission ratios haven't kept up. A 3.5:1 would have been perfect for my setup allowing me to use a standard (28x28) prop.

Ted

Volvo-Penta diesel with a volvo branded MS15A 8 degree down angle 2.63:1 trans. The trans appears to be a ZF15MA that has been painted green.

Twin Disc 521
Reduction 3.034 to 1
Drop centre
Behind a Caterpillar D353 turbo, 390 hp @ 1225rpm

Good combo, just don't want to ever need to pick it up.

Ted

Forward and Backward?

Only kidding, ZF 2.91:1 behind JD 6068 TFMs. I do the regular maintenance and really don't them much thought, so they must be doing OK.

I've got VD.

More often I call my gear a BW. 2.57-1
I love the smooth and quiet shifting.
My VD has a much reduced (in size (width of gear)) for the hydraulic pump so the pump consumes less power ... probably 1.5 - 2hp. Also the clutch friction material is softer and contributes to the smoothness. These modifications were suggested by the gear rebuilder in view of the fact that the BW gear is set up to work w engines w more than five times as much power. I don't know how often this is done but I'm very happy w the gear.

The engine turns 3000rpm at wot and 2300 at cruise. A conventional 1 1/4" SS shaft is terminated w an 18" dia bronze prop and coupled to the gear via an R&D flexible coupling. There is an oil cooler and I use ATF lube oil.

ZF 280PL 1.514:1 behind Cummins 6CTA 450. Not a down angle, but drop center.

No issues with gear in 2300hrs since new in 2004.

Makobuilders.
The Gardner engines were brilliant engines, the only problem with them is that they smoke on start up until warm. If you get a good one they will last out your lifetime in a boat.
They made a 3,4,6, and 8 cylinder versions.
The 8 cylinder originally had a problem cooling the last 2 cylinders but a larger water pump fixed that.
Amazing really, they pioneered slow revving high torque and along came the Swedes with turbo high revving 3,000 rpm engines and took over the truck market, now they are all going back to Gardners 1950 rpm format.
Keep checking eBay in the UK, spares are still being made.

Twin Disc MG 506, 2.96:1.

Older units, so no capacity for starter lock-out when in gear
No accessory take off, or trolling valve.

Notwithstanding the above they are still great gears

Ted said:

Twin Disc 521

Reduction 3.034 to 1

Drop centre

Behind a Caterpillar D353 turbo, 390 hp @ 1225rpm



Good combo, just don't want to ever need to pick it up.



Ted

Click to expand...

Nice!


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

D353T and TD521... Now that is some real machinery!!!

Kudos!!

I would kill for a 6 cyl Gardner. Once you buy one, you have to polish them and once you've done that you need to take it out of your boat and put it in your living room, next to the 1970 Bonneville and the BSA Gold Star.

Oh right, rusty Twin Disc. Bulletproof.

Insequent said:

Twin Disc MG 506, 2.96:1.

Older units, so no capacity for starter lock-out when in gear
No accessory take off, or trolling valve.

Notwithstanding the above they are still great gears

Click to expand...

+1

That's what I have too.

Lehman 120, with Paragon box (am I the only one), with forwards and backwards, (who needs more?) and there's nothing to not love about them both.

And WTF is a drop centre FGS..?

Deere 6090 main with ZF W325 drop center.

Deere 4045 wing with ZF 63-IV vee-drive

Peter B said:

And WTF is a drop centre FGS..?

Click to expand...

Drop center refers to the output shaft being below the input shaft. The alternative is the two shafts being inline (at the same level).

Ted

ZF, model 220 ratio 2.47 - 1

Irish Rambler said:

Makobuilders.
The Gardner engines were brilliant engines, the only problem with them is that they smoke on start up until warm. If you get a good one they will last out your lifetime in a boat.
They made a 3,4,6, and 8 cylinder versions.
The 8 cylinder originally had a problem cooling the last 2 cylinders but a larger water pump fixed that.
Amazing really, they pioneered slow revving high torque and along came the Swedes with turbo high revving 3,000 rpm engines and took over the truck market, now they are all going back to Gardners 1950 rpm format.
Keep checking eBay in the UK, spares are still being made.

Click to expand...

They made as well 5 cylinders version.

Sure, no doubt Gardners are wonderful motors, but a rebuilt one prices at about $10,000 to $15,000 more than brand new, modern iron - like a Deere or a SISU or similar. Budget, emissions, etc., all come into play when it comes to making that decision.

Twin Disc MG5065A 2.43 : 1
Connected to a Cummins QSC 8.3 540 HO

Am I on the right track to think Twin Disc is the more common among the size boats we talk about here?

Do most engine builders seem to stick with the same gear makers through the product line? ie; Cummins coupled to TD. Or is the gear choice one that the boat designer/engineers make?

VOLVO MS-3 all mechanical transmissions. I had one slipping a couple of years ago, pulled it out of the boat, and lapped in the shifting cones. Popped it back into the boat, no problems since. A really enjoyable DIY project.

Velvet Drive(s) - appear original and unmolested, zero issues, consistent good oil analysis results, ~ 1700 hours

Hawgwash said:

Am I on the right track to think Twin Disc is the more common among the size boats we talk about here?

Do most engine builders seem to stick with the same gear makers through the product line? ie; Cummins coupled to TD.

Click to expand...

No. They aren't. Just that the Twin Disc guys like to flaunt it and rest of us are green with envy, grovelling away in the background keeping our mouths shut. Twin Disc's are common on commercial vessels. Many of the older trawlers are equipped with Ford Lehman 120 or 135's coupled with Borg Warner Velvet drives. That's what I have. One of my commercial fisherman buddies suggested I take off "that light weight thing and put on a Twin Disc." If the BWVD ever failed, my choice would be a Twin Disc with a trolling valve.

True story. Just before we got PH, we purchased a former Geoduck boat, 42'. It had something we wanted so we took what we wanted off and gave the boat away to a prawn fisherman from Lasqueti. It had a 671 with low hours and a Twin Disc. I was frightened by the salvage issues at the time. Knowing what I know now, maybe I would have towed it to Shelter Island and done the salvage myself. But hey, I had just retired and was overwhelmed with my shiny new to us boat.


Jim
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Hurth HBW450


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BW 2.5:1 been there since '62 as far as I know. No problems. Only 50 HP though.

Brooksie,
Perkins I spose. Is it the smaller of the two old fours bigger than the 107/108? How many tons per hp do you have? The W30's are well powered but I think all the 40's are a bit overpowered.

BW Velvet Drive 2.9:1 In Line