Portland Fire

MyCows, sorry to hear about you losing your small boat. I hope you come out of it OK.

A small update on the fire. The arson squad, ATF and Oregon State Police did turn the facility over to the owner and insurance company. Although they will continue their investigation, they've found no evidence of arson.

This made me curious so I decided to check with a facility here to see if they have sprinklers. They do.

BandB said:

This made me curious so I decided to check with a facility here to see if they have sprinklers. They do.

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Do you know if it is a code thing in Florida? or just business installed?

I would hope it is more of a deluge system vs something called sprinklers....to many flammables and high temp, fast burning fuels.

psneeld said:

Do you know if it is a code thing in Florida? or just business installed?

I would hope it is more of a deluge system vs something called sprinklers....to many flammables and high temp, fast burning fuels.

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This is Broward County's amendment to the state Fire Code. I'm still looking to see what the State Code provides, if anything.

F-22. 2.3 Boat Storage:
In boat storage facilities with four or more boats, regardless of square footage. When boats are stored on inside or outside multilevel racks for in and out operation, automatic sprinkler protections shall be provided for the entire building or structure and each boat in accordance with the Standard for the Installation of Sprinkler Systems, NFPA13.

When fuels are involved, water isn't your friend, since it floats on top of the water and is simply spread to a larger area. Only foams that ride atop the water / fuel mixture and exclude air are viable, but the open air space of most lift / rack storage buildings are so large that it would require an immense amount of foam to protect the boats. Even if it works and kills the fire, all the boats sprayed with foam would require cleaning of the foam residue.

I suspect insurance is simply the cheaper route, with good business practices to mitigate risk in the rack.

BandB said:

This is Broward County's amendment to the state Fire Code. I'm still looking to see what the State Code provides, if anything.

F-22. 2.3 Boat Storage:
In boat storage facilities with four or more boats, regardless of square footage. When boats are stored on inside or outside multilevel racks for in and out operation, automatic sprinkler protections shall be provided for the entire building or structure and each boat in accordance with the Standard for the Installation of Sprinkler Systems, NFPA13.

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Sounds like it's just applicable to rack storage?

stubones99 said:

When fuels are involved, water isn't your friend, since it floats on top of the water and is simply spread to a larger area. Only foams that ride atop the water / fuel mixture and exclude air are viable, but the open air space of most lift / rack storage buildings are so large that it would require an immense amount of foam to protect the boats. Even if it works and kills the fire, all the boats sprayed with foam would require cleaning of the foam residue.

I suspect insurance is simply the cheaper route, with good business practices to mitigate risk in the rack.

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A deluge system displaces enough air/cools the fire front to quell a fire. Thus my comment of "deluge system" over sprinklers with just wet the fuel.

USCG aircraft hangars have these systems and I would guess many others hangars do too....at least they used too...maybe they have been replaced by higher tech stuff as the USCG takes its aircraft safety seriously.

We put out many a fuel fire with fog nozzles in military fire fighting schools with just water...the trick is really displacing the O2 and cooling the fire front below combustion.

But it does take a lot of water....and deluge systems usually have to have their own water storage tank.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fog_nozzle

A fog nozzle is a firefighting hose spray nozzle that breaks its stream into small droplets. By doing so, its stream achieves a greater surface area, and thus a greater rate of heat absorption, which, when compared to that of a smoothbore nozzle, speeds its transformation into the steam that smothers the fire by displacing its oxygen. Specially designed fog nozzles (with no stream adjustment) have been certified by Underwriters Laboratories (UL) for use on Class B & C hazards

twistedtree said:

Sounds like it's just applicable to rack storage?

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That's what the Portland facility was I believe.

I believe to meet the standards they indicate it would have to be some form of deluge system, but I haven't been in the boat storage unit or looked that carefully.

I would think from common sense there are many regulations regarding the storage of plastic, the storage of flammable materials, the storage of liquids, all of which a boat storage building has.

This is a document on the subject. Here is part of the foreword:

Specific criterion for the design and installation of fire protection for boats stored on racks inside of buildings is currently lacking. NFPA 303, Fire Protection Standard for Marinas and Boatyards requires that automatic sprinklers systems comply with the provisions of Chapter 12 of NFPA 13, Standard for the Installation of Sprinkler Systems for Group “A” Plastics. However, NFPA 13 does not specifically address indoor rack storage of boats. Fire test data of
boats in rack storage is needed to establish more specific requirements for fire control and protection of this type of vessel storage. This project recognizes and addresses this problem by providing a literature review, documenting loss history, and carrying out a hazard analysis of fires involving indoor rack storage of marine vessels in boatyards and marinas. The information helps to clarify additional
research needs that, if addressed in a subsequent research project and ultimately completed, would establish important design parameters such as water demand, automatic sprinkler placement and other essential design requirements for the control and extinguishment of
unwanted fires. The results this study, and such a follow-up research project, are of direct interest to the Technical Committees responsible for NFPA 303, Fire Protection Standard for Marinas and Boatyards and NFPA 13, Standard for the Installation of Sprinkler Systems.


http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/files/r...arch-foundation-reports/boatstorage.pdf?la=en

Here is the data from Watermark Marina in Wilmington, NC.

Number of Sprinkler Heads: 1,837
Square Footage: 616,000

Project Details: This is a boat storage facility including multiple levels of racks for boat storage. The building is protected by four dry pipe sprinkler systems and a 2000 GPM diesel fire pump.

BandB said:

That's what the Portland facility was I believe.

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Got it. I should pay closer attention. I assumed it was one of the many covered in-water marinas.

twistedtree said:

Got it. I should pay closer attention. I assumed it was one of the many covered in-water marinas.

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That's fine. The in water marinas are a separate issue as to whether they are required to have pumps on the docks.

I would guess one of the most common cause is things electrical. If I owned an indoor dry stack I would make it a requirement that each boat have a batt disconnect and launch crew would turn batts off before putting a boat in the rack.

Bilge pumps running dry, stereos and stereo amps, blower motors, light fixtures... All these I have seen smoking in boats, but no fire.. yet.

Also a few starters engaging due to moisure in ign switches. Those will crank engines until something burns up.

Once a fire starts in these things, it will be dang hard to stop as y'all have noted in posts above.

Best to not have a fire start at all.

Batts off, risk much lower.

Seems to me that Mr. Blumenstein was already working the insurance company over!