4 Cyl Deere Luggers

I know there are a few newer JDs around; Ted and Mark spring to mind. But are there any older ones on here?

Saw a really nice setup; twin 1980 4 cylinder, turboed, John Deere Luggers. Purported to be 80 horse turboed to 100. They have been very well cared for and even with 7000 hours and rebuilt twin discs (3 years ago), I'm thinking they have a lot of life left.

Can't find much on them.

Hawgwash said:

I know there are a few newer JDs around; Ted and Mark spring to mind. But are there any older ones on here?

Saw a really nice setup; twin 1980 4 cylinder, turboed, John Deere Luggers. Purported to be 80 horse turboed to 100. They have been very well cared for and even with 7000 hours and rebuilt twin discs (3 years ago), I'm thinking they have a lot of life left.

Can't find much on them.

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It's just a guess, but I'd bet they are Deere 4045 base engines (4.5 litre). NL uses them to this day in their larger gensets, and I've got one as a wing engine. 80hp, naturally aspired, mechanical injection. But mine is a newer Deere marinization, not lugger. The 4045 and 6068 are the same other than the addition/subtraction of 2 cylinders. Both very widely used.

I was a Deere engineer back in 1980, although not involved with engines. As i recall the farm crisis was in its beginning stages and Deere was looking for non traditional markets to expand into. I believe this was about the time frame that Deere engines were made available as an option in Grand Banks trawlers and others. Deere never seemed to aggressively pursue the marine market but did establish a great reputation. The engines are highly regarded, and parts should be readily available worldwide. The key being looking to agricultural and construction sources. Although I worked in the Ag division of the company I do have a few sources of information if you need something specific. Although I have a pair of Perkins in my boat I would love to have a pair of Deere engines in there place.

Capn Craig; said:

Although I worked in the Ag division of the company I do have a few sources of information if you need something specific. Although I have a pair of Perkins in my boat I would love to have a pair of Deere engines in there place.

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Nice offering, thanks.

I gather there is nothing really wrong with the Perkies, you are just infatuated with the JDs?

After 41 years employment I think they are a great company with a great product. My engineering experience is that they take their customers needs in foremost regard.

As Twisted posted, just during the period John Deere was getting their engines marinized and sold as Luggers. We actually have a couple of Luggers as Generators from Northern Lights. My preferred choice in generators, so a fan of the engines.

Hawgwash said:

I know there are a few newer JDs around; Ted and Mark spring to mind. But are there any older ones on here?

Saw a really nice setup; twin 1980 4 cylinder, turboed, John Deere Luggers. Purported to be 80 horse turboed to 100. They have been very well cared for and even with 7000 hours and rebuilt twin discs (3 years ago), I'm thinking they have a lot of life left.

Can't find much on them.

Click to expand...

I have the 4045TFM75. Depending on the computer program, it's 107, 120 or 135 HP. My came as a 135 HP and was going to have the computer set to 107 HP for an M1 rating, continuous duty. The $750 price tag to reset the computer has made me reconsider that need.

Really like my motor; it's very smooth and fuel efficient. The one item you will want to research in regard to these older motors is the balancing shafts. 4 cylinder engines tend to vibrate more and are not as smooth as 6 cylinder engines. To eliminate this additional vibration my engine has Balancing Shafts. While they have been around a long time, they are not universally in all 4 cylinder diesels. The Cummins 4BT 150 HP didn't have them. I would imagine all 4045 blocks have them, but would see if I could verify that. They make for a very smooth running engine. It was part of the reason I picked a Deere over a Cummins for my repower.

Ted

O C Diver; said:

I have the 4045TFM75. Depending on the computer program, it's 107, 120 or 135 HP.

To eliminate this additional vibration my engine has Balancing Shafts. While they have been around a long time, they are not universally in all 4 cylinder diesels. I would imagine all 4045 blocks have them, but would see if I could verify that.

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Thanks Ted, good info.

Hawgwash said:

Saw a really nice setup; twin 1980 4 cylinder, turboed, John Deere Luggers.

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Not sure that color/brand of a 36 year old engine matters. Hope is what it is all about, hope they were serviced right and hope they last for another year or two. Comparing a brand of today vs yesteryear is no different with diesels than gas engines. Compare a small block Chevy V8 today vs offerings from the twilight zone,

The addition of turbos to these old engines is not necessarily a positive sign as this means run at higher RPMs to enjoy the 25% HP increase benefits.

If access for possible engine removal is easy then it may be a vessel worth considering. As Ted mentions, balance shaft equipped would be a question to get answered.

sunchaser; said:

The addition of turbos to these old engines is not necessarily a positive sign as this means run at higher RPMs to enjoy the 25% HP increase benefits. If access for possible engine removal is easy then it may be a vessel worth considering.

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Interesting comments and ones I have considered. Logs and service records are voluminous, maintenance and care top notch. A high level of comfort and trust is felt around the current owner...as much as one can feel in a stranger first encounter sense.

I have reached out to both John Deere and Lugger with regards to the balancer, as much for my own knowledge as anything. Easy out through either doors or windows.

Interesting aside and I have no reason to doubt; there is a KK and NH at play and interested in a trade on the old timer. Imagine that. Though that might be a more convenient route, it is more than likely better all around for vendor to sell then negotiate on the others. Too rich for me though for what it is.

Waiting on word from the owner but NL thinks these might be 4276 as 4054 was not available in 1980.

In 2010, we looked at what our repower options were. Here's an email we received talking about the John Deere/Luggers.

G'day, Lena and Larry.
*
We would have several recommendations for you to consider, and really what it comes down to is your cruising speed expectations along with the required hours of durability, or cruising range either at normal operating RPM, or for extended range operations.

First, visit our web-site, www.northern-lights, and under Lugger engine models L1064A or L1066T engines copy the brochures, for reference. In addition, for purposes of consumption comparatives, remember that 1 gallon of diesel should produce 20HP at the transmission input shaft, with a 3% estimated parasitic loss in the transmission.

Taking your average fuel consumption of your Lehman Ford, probably somewhere between 2 to 3 gallons per hour, you were using 40-60 HP to cruise your KK-42 between 7-8 knots, and when you compare this to either engine performance, your would be operating your engine at less than 50% of the rated capacity for the engines.

The physical dimensions of the engines will compare very close to your existing Lehman, the L1064A engine would be shorter of course, since it is only a 4 cylinder engine. To elaborate further, both Lugger models begin life as John Deere Industrial engines, then we marinize the engines to suit our requirements which are somewhat different from the standard John Deere Marine engines, also available to you and standard on all current KK models. Since we have been marinizing the Deere engine for 25 years longer than Deere, we think we know something about what is required for our customers, so we continue to use their engine, done our way.

So you will have options, from very limited changes in the scope of supply between your existing engine, 12V, single high amperage alternator, HE cooling, Twin Disc or ZF transmission with a 2 1/2 to 1 reduction gear, wiring harness, panel, wet exhaust elbow, all matching what you have, so it can slip into the engine spaces without any severe compromises. But, what other changes would you wish to make, such as stabilizers, thrusters, dual alternators, drive options for other solutions, and etc, that you would want to incorporate into your repower project?

Pricing will range from $34,500 to $39,000, depending upon the model selected and the transmission requirements, and available accessory options tailored to your requirements.
Fit should be very close to your existing Lehman, and if you wish to receive a quotation, we would first request that your complete the application questionnaire available on the web-site.

I hope that you will continue your interest and respond with a quotation request that results from receiving your questionnaire. You may be directed to one of our offices that may be closer to you, so if an inspection and consultation is necessary, we can accommodate your interest and timing.

Thank you for your interest and we look forward to your response.


Regards, Steve Scholz,
Director, Asia Pacific Marine Market

Hawgwash said:

Waiting on word from the owner but NL thinks these might be 4276 as 4054 was not available in 1980.

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JD made an 80Hp NA engine called the 4039. It is equipped with "internal balancers"

$34-$39000....wow


Sounds a but high for DIY installs even with some whiz bang accessories...

And way too low with install labor/engine room modification.


I'll be looking at pull start lawnmower engines if I have to repower at those prices.

Thanks Larry, good of you to reproduce that.

sunchaser said:

JD made an 80Hp NA engine called the 4039. It is equipped with "internal balancers"

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Just confirmed:

Model 4276 T (with serial numbers)
Transmissions: MG-502 reduction ratio: 2.47:1

I'll bet an Isuzu is every bit as good as a JD. Why would anybody pay 35 to 40K for an 80hpNA engine that comes from industrial farm impliments?

psneeld; said:

$34-$39000....wow.

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Yeah, really and that's just one. I keep seeing older 40, 43 and 44 Tollys with 454s pretty cheap and thought maybe the crusaders could be converted to 16 tomato pots, put a pair of JDs in their place and still be a reasonably priced boat. Guess not.

manyboats said:

I'll bet an Isuzu is every bit as good as a JD. Why would anybody pay 35 to 40K for an 80hpNA engine that comes from industrial farm impliments?

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Year, really again. Seems to me Ted's was half that, no?

Repowering with new is not cheap. But, many do it and are quite willing as the alternative is a lot less than a new build. The recent Makobuilder thread with a new EGCO 4 cylinder marinized Tier 3 engine is a good example of someone trying to save a few bucks. Insequent and OC Diver bit the bullet and made a boat very happy,

A drop in Cummins 220 HP reman is a good way to save a few dollars too. Or rebuild that Cat 3208. The list of alternatives to a new Tier 3 are numerous for older vessels. Moral of the story, take care of those old ones as it appears Hawgwash found with the vessel that started this thread.

$17.8K with no transmission was what I paid. Believe that was dealer cost to liquidate inventory.

Ted

O C Diver said:

$17.8K with no transmission was what I paid. Believe that was dealer cost to liquidate inventory.

Ted

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Tier 3 Ted?

sunchaser said:

Tier 3 Ted?

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Tier 2

Ted

For those that prefer JD , the game is to purchase the engine from a JD farm place , during the 2-3 times a year "sale" when no core turn in is required.

These are factory rebuilt to as new standards.

Saves about 1/2

FF said:

For those that prefer JD , the game is to purchase the engine from a JD farm place , during the 2-3 times a year "sale" when no core turn in is required.

These are factory rebuilt to as new standards.

Saves about 1/2

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Interesting. Are those short blocks, or whole engines? I guess one them moves all the marinization parts over to the rebuilt engine?

O C Diver said:

$17.8K with no transmission was what I paid. Believe that was dealer cost to liquidate inventory.

Ted

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Thanks Ted...about what I thought.....

Man, I was srarting to have nightmares about snowbird in by boat.

At $39 k per engine, most twin guys could just rebuild their boat engines and have enough left over for a nice used RV like Timjet was contemplating.

Ted and sunchaser;
NL confirms the 4276 has balance shafts. 2 of them.

There you go Hawgwash, rebuildable blocks, marinization parts still available and a diligent owner. Good thread.

Larry M said:

In 2010, we looked at what our repower options were. Here's an email we received talking about the John Deere/Luggers.
...

Pricing will range from $34,500 to $39,000, depending upon the model selected and the transmission requirements, and available accessory options tailored to your requirements.
...

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Back in 2000, only 10 years prior to that price quote, I bought a 48 HP tractor with a front end loader, backhoe and a couple more attachments for less than that engine! It was JD equipment too. The tractor does have a Yanmar engine so maybe that difference.

That sure is a bunch of money for an engine and tranny...

Later,
Dan

Regarding price of motors, I think a great deal depends on where you buy it and if they see what you're driving. The dealer I bought from primarily sells to Chesapeake Bay waterman. They aren't noted for spending much money on anything. As a result, think the motors are sold at a much lower margin with the intent to make more money on the parts and labor down the road.

The limited experience I have had with engine dealers catering to the yacht market leads me to believe that they feel we are prepared to pay a much higher price for the same item. Maybe that's part of the reason I have a trawler instead of a yacht.

Ted

A second easy way to save over 1/2 is to purchase a rebuilt tranny (I prefer Twin Disc) from a commercial rebuilder.

There are so many TD out there ,that a core charged can easily be waved on a Ca$h sale.

Subscribe to Boats & Harbors , for a look at the commercial not White Boat prices.

A few bucks for a couple of months.

Also advertising there for what you want is really cheap!