Varnish Job Question

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clynn

clynn

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2015
Messages
275
Location
USA
Vessel Name
Ivory Lady
Vessel Make
46 Jefferson
I stripped, sanded, and started to varnish my steps this weekend (I know, slippery when wet). My question is did I mess up by not using a product to clean the teak? See the pictures below and how the step on the right is so dark. The picture was taken immediately after the first coat.

If i screwed up, if rather fix it now than look at it for years. Any experienced opinions?

ImageUploadedByTrawler Forum1456772748.783018.jpg
ImageUploadedByTrawler Forum1456772764.005256.jpg
 
That doesn't even look like teak to me. If it is it must be some of that new growth stuff.

It looks like they should have been cleaned and needed more sanding.
 
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Yes I'm with Capt Bill on this one . Cleaning first with a two part teak cleaner like Semco Teak Cleaner will bring back the golden teak color if it is teak and it will also raise the grain to give you something to sand . All the gray needs to be cleaned up before varnish .
 
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So strip them again, teak cleaner, sand, wipe down with alcohol, and then vanish again?
 
I'm against using commercial cleaners.
Use apple cider vinigar and hydrogen peroxide. There's a third element that my wife uses ..... baking soda. Got to wood down first but w only one coat not a problem. Scrape or sand the little bit of varnish off.
 
Yes I would just scrape the varnish off first . I wouldn't use stripper . The grain needs to be raised to have something to sand . The cleaning with Eric's mix will do this .
 
manyboats said:
I'm against using commercial cleaners.
Use apple cider vinigar and hydrogen peroxide. There's a third element that my wife uses ..... baking soda.
Click to expand...

What ratio do you use? Do you suggest adding the baking soda?

Thanks for the feedback. This has been a learning experience. I'll take more pictures and update the thread with more progress.
 
I`m with Capt Bill on "is that really teak?". A heat gun and scraper should get the fresh varnish off before applying the cleaner of choice.
Rather than sand down to the grooves consider using a teak stain. I dilute it and apply multiple times to get the color I want. Like on my nameboards recently, which came up well.
Glad you are aware of the "slippery when wet" aspect. I put self adhesive rubber type step treads on my refinished FB stairs.
 
clynn,
Just reciently I detailed the Chris Mix teak restorer proceedure. Ask Marty as he started the post .... I can't find it where all refinishing threads should be or on General Discussion either. Let me know if you can't (with Marty's help) find it. There is some precautions involved.
 
manyboats said:
clynn,
Just reciently I detailed the Chris Mix teak restorer proceedure. Ask Marty as he started the post .... I can't find it where all refinishing threads should be or on General Discussion either. Let me know if you can't (with Marty's help) find it. There is some precautions involved.
Click to expand...
I can't find it . I was referring to your post about cleaning in this thread .
 
Thank you Mike!
I think it's all there and I had forgotten about the hydrogen peroxide. My wife Cristine is the master varnisher not me. I'll get her into this if needed but I think it's all there in the thread Mike linked. I wonder how far back Mike went in the archives? I thought I went plenty far back .. but obviously not. I imagine he searched and went right to. Good
 
If those were my steps, I would clean off all the varnish, sand to new wood, and leave them without any finish at all. They have some grooves in them, designed to enhance traction by letting any accumulation of rainwater drain away. If you like the look of those grooves, renew them, maybe double them up, but no more varnish, please.

From your pictures, if the first is after sanding and before the single coat of varnish, it is quite obvious that you haven't removed all of the black from the grain. In order to get it all, you need to sand more of the raised gain off, likely in places you will be down a long way. Ideally, you should run that side of each board through a planer till the colour is uniform and all new wood. Then run them through the table saw with the blade set to renew the grooves. Then, dare I say it again, stop!
 
manyboats said:
Thank you Mike!
I think it's all there and I had forgotten about the hydrogen peroxide. My wife Cristine is the master varnisher not me. I'll get her into this if needed but I think it's all there in the thread Mike linked. I wonder how far back Mike went in the archives? I thought I went plenty far back .. but obviously not. I imagine he searched and went right to. Good
Click to expand...

Just searched for "cleaning teak, manyboats" and only two threads came up, it was the second one..........:thumb:
 
rochepoint said:
For Manyboats post, see post 9 http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s32/teak-top-rails-cetol-not-cetol-20520.html
Click to expand...

I had read through the first part of that thread in my earlier search, but I must say it got more entertaining near the end.

Forgive me if I missed it, but I still didn't see the ratio of vinegar to hydrogen peroxide. I can buy some off the shelf cleaner, but I like the idea of mixing my own brew.

koliver, I hear you, but all the wood on my boat is varnished and I want the steps to match. These are the steps up to the flybrige and they are protected under the canvas. The only way they are getting wet is if I spill a drink on them. Plus, this is my practice run for refinishing the cap rails.
 
I clean(ed) my bare Teak on our listed-for-sail sailboat with a power washer...gingerly. It goes grey soon enough again. Easy to remove too much wood, and patchily, too. No better time to strip what you have; the varnish is not yet cured, but the clock is ticking. That boat is a 1970 and the bare Teak in question has 'receded' about 3/32"; the repeatedly refinished, varnished Teak has lost perhaps 1/8".
 
I still question whether that is teak. Looks more like oak to me.

If it's not teak, bleaching might not do much to brighten it.
 
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Re the black mould there are natural ways to reduce their development. That is using things that are toxic to the mould.

I don't know of many. Tea Tree oil is quite effective but very expensive. $10 for a little 2oz bottle. I hate going there but Wal-Mart had the best price I could find.
What I use is a lot of is turpentine .... said to be a toxin to mould. Putting several coats of thined varnish increases the amount of turpentine one can apply. I think one could use turp for cleaning but it smells quite strong. There are commercial fungicides but I don't know of their effectiveness. I tried to mix some once but it was for water based paint only. Didn't mix. Commercial fungicides would probably be worth looking into.

The wood looks like slash sawn teak to me. Like mahogany there are many different varieties of teak from many places around the world.
 
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Hard to tell from pics but those steps look like they are getting thin, probably from repeat sanding. My latticed cover over the hatch beside the anchor windlass has been sanded very thin. Which is why I came up with applying a judicious teak stain on my FB nameboards before varnishing(Cetol), limiting sanding to the essential, rather than aggressive.
 
clynn said:
I stripped, sanded, and started to varnish my steps this weekend (I know, slippery when wet). My question is did I mess up by not using a product to clean the teak? See the pictures below and how the step on the right is so dark. The picture was taken immediately after the first coat.

If i screwed up, if rather fix it now than look at it for years. Any experienced opinions?

View attachment 49426
View attachment 49427
Click to expand...

Cant help with the teak but, if you are concerned about slippery steps, check this out. http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s32/varnish-non-skid-18954.html
 
I'm currently in the process of refinishing the teak on my Californian and it has miles of it. I'm about 75% complete by knocking out a section at a time.

The process I'm using is:
1) Strip the old finish to bare wood using a heat gun and scraper.
2) Sand with 80 grit.
3) Clean with Oxalic Acid, 1/2 cup per Gallon of water. Apply with stiff bristle brush and let sit 15 minutes then scrub and rinse off with water. Re-apply as needed.
4) Let it dry out.
5) Knock down any rough spots with 120 grit.
6) Dust it off, Tape it off.
7) Refinish:
a) Three coats Cetol Marine Light applied at 24 hour intervals.
b) One Coat Cetol Marine Gloss.

Caution: The heat gun stripping method works great but you need to be careful not to burn the wood. Keep the heat moving in front of the scraper.
 
Updates:

1. Having spent more time on it, I agree with folks saying it's not teak.

2. After scraping off the new varnish, I'm getting pretty good with my new, higher quality scrapper and heat gun. Good practice, I suppose.

3. I tried the vinegar and hyd peroxide to clean/de-gray the grain. No luck. Also used Barkeepers Friend. Had some success with the Semco 2 part teak cleaner. Then got 60 grit sand paper and went at it again. They look somewhat better.

4. Last night I applied my first coat, but switched from Epifanes to Cetol for my first 2 coats to get a better color. The remaining coats will be Epifanes.

I'll post some picks next week after a few more coats. Again, I appreciate everyone's tips and suggestions. Once this is done, cap rails are next. Then the door, which is a darker color, so I'll definitely be back with questions on that one.
 
4. Last night I applied my first coat, but switched from Epifanes to Cetol for my first 2 coats to get a better color. The remaining coats will be Epifanes.

.[/QUOTE]

I don't have any advice but, I haven't heard of anyone using Cetol for a base coat and the finishing with varnish. Anyone know if that works?
 
I would also mention for anyone doing this the first time around, don't skimp on the sandpaper. Buy 3M or equivalent quality. It's a few extra bucks but well worth the time and frustration saved.

Companies like Harbor Freight sell inexpensive sandpaper that is complete junk.
 
clynn,
Did you forget the baking soda in Chris's formula? She just told me it would'nt work w/o the baking soda. And it needs to set for a bit prior to the mechanical effort. I thought she gave all the details in previous posts.

Edit:
See Mike's (rochepoint's) post #11 and it's link.
"Teak top rails - to Cetol or not Cetol"
Then see post #9. All the info is there.
Sorry, I should have been more detailed.
 
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manyboats said:
clynn,
Did you forget the baking soda in Chris's formula?
Click to expand...

I guess I missed the reference to baking soda...thanks for pointing that out. I attacked the steps with everything from chemicals to sandpaper and I was able to get a lot of the grey out of the grain, which was especially prevalent in one step. I'm keeping notes and acquiring better tools, so my next project should go smoother.

As for whether or not you can apply Epifanes over Cetol, give me a week and I'll you know.
 
What I have used when taking the finish off to bare teak is sand paper that is used for refinishing floors. It comes in rolls and has a stiff backing. I buy it by the running foot and cut it down to hand sanding size. The coarse grit will quickly remove the finish and then you can switch to finer grits to finish the surface.
 
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