Another battery & charge question.

From other threads:
Markpierce:
You guys must have huge electrical draws if your engine's alternator isn't sufficient when underway, necessitating simultaneous use of the genset.
ksanders:
We have an electric stove, and watermaker, and clothes washer...we run the generator to do other stuff and it keeps the batteries up.
Bay Pelican:
Two radars, autopilot, computer, monitor and all sorts of lights...pulling up 150 feet of chain.

So...on a typical day, what eats up your stored power and how is it replenished?

By far our biggest power draw is for refrigeration. It uses about 75ah per day. If we're cruising the 2 70a engine alternators keep everything charged. Likewise the battery charger does it if we're in a marina on shore power. If we're hanging out at our mooring or on the hook, we run the generator about an hour twice a day to charge batts and heat water. If its really hot (or cold) we might run the gen all day and or all night for ac or reverse cycle heat.

We've added 100w of solar this year to help keep the batteries topped up. I know it cant keep up with the refrig draw, but at least it will allow me to shut off the gen after the bulk stage of charging and have the solar finish the top up. We'll see how much that helps.

Ken

kchace; said:

If its really hot (or cold) we might run the gen all day and or all night for ac or reverse cycle heat.

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Ken;
1-Is running genie and AC not kinda noisy all night long?
2-How moist is the reverse cycle heated air?

Hawgwash said:

Ken;
1-Is running genie and AC not kinda noisy all night long?
2-How moist is the reverse cycle heated air?

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Our gen is very quiet, barely a low hum. The fan for the ac in our stateroom is a bit loud, but not too bad. Better for us than sweating in bed. Sometimes if it's not too hot I might use just the salon ac which is much quieter.

I never notice the reverse cycle heat being moist or dry. I don't see how it would be any different than electric or engine coolant loop heat because they're all just a hot metal surface that air is blown past.

Ken

Hawgwash said:

From other threads:
Markpierce: ... So...on a typical day, what eats up your stored power and how is it replenished?[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT]

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While underway, radar/chart plotter, depth finder, autopilot, radio, and refrigerator are usually on, supported by a 28-volt, 150-amp alternator.

Power draws. Typical day is at anchor, so the draws are refrigeration, water maker, washing machine, toaster, coffee pot, tea pot, computers (two on most of the day), stereo, SSB radio, and VHF radio and lights. Plus usually two hours of TV and related DVD / hard drive at night.

When underway we again usually leave from at anchor in the early morning. Need to put some charge into the batteries before lifting anchor so the generator goes on. Then we lift 150 feet of chain (normal, often more).

Underway: fridge, navelectronics incl. radar, navtex, plotter etc. and navlights are fully covered by alternators (2x 12V + 1x 24V for anchor winch). All batteries full when arriving.

Anchorage: fridge and lights. No need for AC, and we enjoy to be without TV and "Gedudel" (noise) from the radio. But once a day the gen is running for some time when we are cooking or at least every second day to recover the power draw of the fridge. Hot water for coffee and tea goes via inverter from 12V banks.

When we purchased our AMS we removed the dish washer, the clothes washer, the huge TV, ... since we have no need for those while boating. AC still in place, used only one time in three years.


best regards / med venlig hilsen
wadden

Addition: while we don't need the AC here in the Baltics the heater is running often on spring and fall boating days. On those days we run certainly the gen twice a day if no shore power available.


best regards / med venlig hilsen
Wadden

Smaller scale, but some similarity - fridge is by far the biggest consumer. We have no generator, but also no washer/dryer, air conditioner, or electric stove, microwave, coffeemaker. Inverter is used only for relatively small items. Watermaker runs only underway. Windlass used only with engine running.

Replenished most days by the Balmar 75A alternator/regulator. Underway the alternator provides way more juice than ongoing draws need, so there's plenty for charging. On most of the few days we're tied up to a float, we plug into shore power, and sometimes plug in a small 120v heater.

There are two parts to the OP's question if you parse it: 1) DC loads and how you replace those and 2) AC loads that are not supplied by an inverter.


1. Our DC loads are primarily refrigeration as others have noted. Also lights, electronics recharging, and an occasional inverter supplied AC load like a couple of minutes of microwaving. These add up to about 75 AH over a typical overnight on the hook.


I recharge these with the propulsion engine's alternator if I am moving at least a few hours after a night on the hook. Also I almost always run the genset for a half hour or so in the morning to make coffee and that powers the 100 amp charger on the Freedom inverter/charger. If we are hanging out on the hook for more than a night I will typically run the genset at least a half hour morning and night which keep me pretty well in balance.


2. Larger AC loads like the coffee maker noted above, the electric stove and air conditioning require running the genset, although I have never run the genset all night for air conditioning or heating.


David

During cooler weather a big 12 volt draw for us is the hydronic heating system. For serious fishermen in the PNW freezers can be the 120 volt biggie. So many energy hog options are possible, being comfortable and safe top our list with energy the root.

Another battery & charge question.

We have separate side-bay-side fridge and freezer units by Nova cool. In the summer, they are on 75% of the time, so 175-200 ah. We have been running the genny 2-3 hrs/ day while on the hook. We could feasibly go 2 days without but would rather keep the bank well north of 50% SOC.

Several years ago, the forum directed me to Nigel Calder's book "Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual: How to Maintain, Repair, and Improve Your Boat's Essential Systems"
http://www.amazon.ca/Boatowners-Mechanical-Electrical-Manual-Essential/dp/0071432388

I must have read the first 3 chapters 6 times. I'm quite dense on such matters. I have the Kindle edition but I think the hard copy is the better way to go, quite frankly.

BTW, this thread belongs in the Electronics and electrical section under boat maintenance.

Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

sunchaser said:

During cooler weather a big 12 volt draw for us is the hydronic heating system. For serious fishermen in the PNW freezers can be the 120 volt biggie. So many energy hog options are possible, being comfortable and safe top our list with energy the root.

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Thread drift warning....

I have a diesel forced air heater that runs on DC. 14amps start-up and about 7 amps while running. Since the heater cycles off and on, maybe an average of about 8 amp/hrs. I have the heater configured so that it it is on full or off. It gives less consistent heat, but never carbons up. The advantage to this type of heater for me is that it heats up the boat fast.

With your hydronic system, I imagine you get much more even heating since you have a hot water tank used as a heat sink and can regulate individual areas with localized fans. With the water pump circulating the water, and the fans used in individual registers any idea what your current draw is? Also, if the boat has been sitting empty, how long does it take to warm up on a 40 degree PNW day?

Dave

dhays said:

With the water pump circulating the water, and the fans used in individual registers any idea what your current draw is? Also, if the boat has been sitting empty, how long does it take to warm up on a 40 degree PNW day? Dave

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Dave

Best I recall the full load 12V system draw is about 15 amps. Yes, it cycles so over the course of a night less than 80 amp total draw down. After a days cruise even at 40 degrees there is enough latent ER heat that 12 V load is even less during the night.

Heat up time at 40 degrees about an hour with heaters cycling after 2-3 hours. When cruising engine heat exchanger with hydronic fluid obviates need for diesel furnace to be on.

JDCAVE said:

BTW, this thread belongs in the Electronics and electrical section under boat maintenance.

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Lol...
I'm guessing over half of what appears in the "General discussion" category "belongs" somewhere else.

Personally, I like variety in the general section and seldom look anywhere else. Scan down the thread titles, if they are bold, I haven't read them.

Because I am too lazy to read through all the titles in every category, I miss stuff. Good example; in the "Power" category 4 out of the first 9 threads at the moment are electrical. They are of considerable interest to me right now but I lose track of them, being where they are. If they were in the "Electrical" section where they probably "belong" I would not find them any easier.

It's the nature of forums and if we are going to be lazy about where we leave things, we should not expect moderators to parent us by constantly cleaning up after us.

JDCAVE said:

BTW, this thread belongs in the Electronics and electrical section under boat maintenance.

Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

Click to expand...

Thanks, missed that when I posted. Will move the thread.

Hawgwash said:

Because I am too lazy to read through all the titles in every category, I miss stuff.

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Just to the left of the Search button on the top of your page, there's a New Posts button...give that a click and all that's current (almost) will be revealed.

i`m looking at a couple of 125 watt solar panels maybe for next yr, with the latest solar regulator, the output is increased considerably. hope all you big alternator people use external regulators! internal regulators are useless! i tried balmar for 5 years, every fall they had to send me a new one! finally gave up, and went back to 'ample power' in seattle, theirs works, and lasts!...now have their V3 model regulator, and it`s great! set 3 dip switches for the battery type, and forget it! charles company makes some good equipment, i bought their 60 amp ac charger, works fine...they make regulators too...also changed all lights to LED`s, that helps a lot! anchor light uses about 2 watts, not 2 amps! i never let my batts go below 12.20 volts/50%, they usually last 10 yrs...clyde

sunchaser said:

Best I recall the full load 12V system draw is about 15 amps. Yes, it cycles so over the course of a night less than 80 amp total draw down. After a days cruise even at 40 degrees there is enough latent ER heat that 12 V load is even less during the night.

Heat up time at 40 degrees about an hour with heaters cycling after 2-3 hours. When cruising engine heat exchanger with hydronic fluid obviates need for diesel furnace to be on.

Click to expand...

My ignorance stemming from being a rag boater is showing again. I know that the hydronic systems provide domestic hot water, and that my engine heat exchanger also provides domestic hot water, but I never considered that engine heat exchange would also provide the heat for the hydronic heating system. That makes great use of what would otherwise be wasted engine heat.

TF improves my education yet again!

As most boats do not operate 24/7 in cold weather , the simple system is to have the main engine operate its own "box" heater,

Usually a skool bus unit with big fans , 80,000btu or so.

On a cool but not cold evening a DC circ pump and this unit can steal residual heatt for a couple of hours .

In cold weather only a furnace is worth considering as most boats have no insulation and 24/7 heat is nice below freezing.