Cetol vs Epifanes

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Scary said:
Hands down Cetol will out performs Epifanes or any other oil based vanish when it comes to durability and ease of repair. In the California delta with high dry heat Epifanes or for that matter any conventional varnish is good for maybe 6 months in direct sunlight. In my opinion it's better to deal with the color of Cetol than the look of failing varnish. Cetol can be touched up with a light sanding and blending in of Cetol. Two part epoxies to my knowledge have no UV protection so they need to be coated with varnish containing uv protection. I thought this was the hot set up, two part epoxy coated with 8 coats of Epifanes until it to failed on a sail boat I had varnished a couple of years ago. In this case the epoxy did not fail and we were able to sand and recoat the teak. At this point I'n not sure if the epoxy really helped at all. Cetol is is easy to use and reliable, may not have the beauty of varnish, but it's close enough, especially if your working on other peoples boats all the time and really want to just enjoy your own.
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:thumb::thumb::thumb:
 
We used Epifanes on William . Six coats . The first couple coats thinned 50% then 25% for a couple coats and then 15 % on the last few .We also wiped down the raw teak with acetone at first.
My Dad always said treat varnish like a first date with a good looking woman . Don't lay it on too heavy at first, let each coat get to know each other by thinning . This is new teak and under cover . Not the same as refurbishing some weathered teak .
 

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Marty,

Did you remove the door or work on it in place? That is beautiful! Thanks for the picture.

Also, which Epifanes did you use? Wood Finish Gloss?
 
I built the doors first and then we varnished the sections . We used gloss and sanded between coats .All of this is new Bermease teak . Much easier to finish than weathered teak that has been oiled or varnished before . Plus no hardware to work around . Long uninterrupted stretches allows you to flow and pull out the varnish .
 

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About the only place I would leave teak without any finish is the swimstep. I have had 2 boats where the cappings were left without any finish, in both cases the teak became grooved, due I think, to softer wood degrading away. (I`m told this relates to winter and summer growth producing harder/softer rings of wood). You can sand heavily to get the surface flat, or sand lightly, put up with it, refinish, hoping time will see it smoother year by year, with sanding and wear.
 
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There's obviously a lack of understanding (or basic research into) as to the difference between Epifane's classic varnishes and the Wood Finish product. That's always a big issue I have with these social media forums and other "crowd sourced" venues... making them an almost useless resource for the naive.
 
I love folks that think Cetol only comes in one color, it comes in several and also clear so the orange look is off the table.

I also love how people who live where the sun shines perhaps 15 days a year swear by varnish and how they get several years of service out of it in their covered slips and 3 month boating season.:facepalm:

Bring it to the south and park in in an uncovered slip and use it 12 months out of the year and tell me how much you love any varnish, :rofl:

Why not ask the question on the dock where you will be using the actual boat and not take advice from people 2000 miles away in conditions completely different then you are in? :popcorn::hide:
 
Greetings,
Mr. S. C'mon, don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel...As I mentioned in post #4. Cetol gloss works for us. The Admiral is the "varnish" person and having used both, she much prefers the ease and simplicity of application/re-coatability of Cetol in lieu of varnish.

Currently baking in the FL sun.
 
I get 6 months from a marine varnish in southeast VA,
Frankly varnish is even hard to keep on the interior woodwork if the sun shine on it.

I bought a can of car clear coat meant to go on top of car paint, and even that eventually fails, after about 3 years on the inside if the sun hits horizontal wood if it is close to the windows.

I think the coelan is worth my looking into, what I read is it lasts at least 10 years in tropic sun.

I actually used brown paint on the toe rail, and it still looks good after 5 years.
 
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SCOTTEDAVIS said:
Why not ask the question on the dock where you will be using the actual boat and not take advice from people 2000 miles away in conditions completely different then you are in? :popcorn::hide:
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I would ask others on my dock, but my boat is on the Mississippi River in Memphis which is not exactly a boating Mecca. There may be two other boats with teak at my marina and they make my bright work look good...you saw my pictures, right? That is why I asked this forum, which has been a wealth of knowledge on other issues.

I keep my boat is a covered slip, not unlike Al, so his experience would likely be similar to my own. Marty also gave his feedback (including inspiring pictures) which matched Al's. His marina, which is where my boat lived for years, is only a 100 miles or so away. If I was in Florida with you, your experience would be more meaningful to me, but I'm not going to experience your conditions, therefore my results would vary.

caltexflanc said:
There's obviously a lack of understanding (or basic research into) as to the difference between Epifane's classic varnishes and the Wood Finish product. That's always a big issue I have with these social media forums and other "crowd sourced" venues... making them an almost useless resource for the naive.
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True, but only if you blindly follow what others post. Coupled with your own research and discernment, the experiences of others can be a valuable resource.
 
The PO had covered my teak decks with Cetol. After slipping on it a couple of times I realized that when wet it was downright dangerous. It had to go.

I used Starbright tropical Teak Oil, which lasts at least a year. But I plan to switch over to Deks Olje #1 only, which I am also going to put on the swim step once the last of the finish on it has flaked off.
 
I've used Cetol before and it was also on new teak. It turned out good but I didn't keep up with it and I didn't do enough prep work first and probably didn't read directions . I don't feel I gave it a fair shot . When we rebuilt cap rails on William I wanted to try something different . If was out in the open and in a harsh environment I would give Cetol another try . I think the first few coats done right is the most important on any finish .
 
for any of these products...you have to use them in your area of boating, see how they last for your use and your tolerance for maintaining it.

It is so classic when someone's opinion is disagreed with that the whole forum, it's experienced members and their opinions are a joke....

but the joke is on who? :rofl:
 
psneeld said:
for any of these products...you have to use them in your area of boating, see how they last for your use and your tolerance for maintaining it.

It is so classic when someone's opinion is disagreed with that the whole forum, it's experienced members and their opinions are a joke....

but the joke is on who? :rofl:
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So true and I also agree with your :thumb: on post #31. If you mention Cetol the negative comments are fast and furious.

Cetol as stated is not a "Bristol" "Yacht Club" finish, however it is a good enough long lasting and easy to use finish in my opinion, and my opinion is so worthless that it's free on the internet. :D

Saying you don't like Cetol because you don't like the orange is like saying I don't like Fords because I don't like green cars, ummm the orange is a color of several in the Cetol line and it has been softened quite a bit from years ago.

I don't like varnishing, some do and good on them. They would love the tropical sun as they can start at one end of the boat and given the humidity and rain days when they get to the end of the boat they can go right back to the other and and start again. Not kidding a bit.

OP as PS said you need to try what you think best for your location and tolerance for work and given your location if you don't start with Cetol at least keep it in mind for the near future.

UV is one of the bad things about the south, it is an animal that eats stuff outside.
 
Insequent said:
The PO had covered my teak decks with Cetol. After slipping on it a couple of times I realized that when wet it was downright dangerous. It had to go.

I used Starbright tropical Teak Oil, which lasts at least a year. But I plan to switch over to Deks Olje #1 only, which I am also going to put on the swim step once the last of the finish on it has flaked off.
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PO should never have used Cetol on decks IMO it is the wrong product, decks should be clean bare teak, in all it's gray non-skid glory as God intended.
 
Cetol and Epifanes varnish

Hi: has anyone had success putting Epifanes Varnish on top of faded Cetol? I am looking for some magic here.

Thanks
 
Tomas said:
I use Epifanes Rubbed Effect on interior teak and Cetol Natural Teak and Gloss on exterior teak. Epifanes definitely looks better, but we are cruisers and our exterior teak takes a beating at docks and locks, and from the sun. We apply 3 coats of Natural Teak, lightly sand the 3rd coat then apply a fourth coat. We then apply 2 coats of Cetol Gloss. A couple of advantages of Cetol is no need to sand between coats, touchups of damaged areas don't show or destroy the integrity of the finish, and the UV protection is superior.
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I don't have ANY exterior wood on my Nordic Tug (by choice). However, on my former sailboat, I found what Tomas is describing to work very well. Strip down to bare wood, (should do that for varnish anyway), and apply Cetol Natural Teak (I don't like the colour of the Cetol original). Top it with a couple of coats of Gloss and it looks great and lasts well. At the first sign of any damage or even annually, just lightly sand and apply a fresh coat of the gloss. It will last. Of course my experience is here in southern BC, just north of Seattle.
 
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Spy,
Aren’t they both oil based?
I would think it would be fine as long as scraping and sanding removed all the lose Cetol.
 
I have great success putting Brightside paint over Cetol after I sanded all the Cetol off...
 
Nomad Willy said:
Spy,
Aren’t they both oil based?
I would think it would be fine as long as scraping and sanding removed all the lose Cetol.
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I find that Cetol lifts off when scraped. I think it would look splotchy.

I was speaking more of making a dull product shiny. It will still be dull underneath. The UV inhibitors in Cetol give it a kid of dull look even when fresh, in my opinion.

I'm an Epifanes guy. So I am absolutely biased.
 
I use varnish on the inside and Cetol on the outside. And very little Cetol.
 
I am surprised no one really mentioned Awlwood.

It is a single stage product that lasts 5 years in full Florida sun. It is the product on mega yachts.

It is not easy to apply, it is so glossy and clear you can have few mistakes. It makes Cetol look like peanut butter. You must learn the product in small steps in projects.

It is not a varnish, more of an encapsulation, and is very hard. That is part of the benefit.

You can see my application at my blog, grandbankschoices.
 
Thanks for the feed back everyone.
 
Everybody talks up their usual/favorite varnish like it’s magic in a can. Most often Epifanes. Like everybody’s gonna die if they don’t use it.

IMO all the top paint manufactures offer a very comparable high quality varnish whether it be Schooner or the brand I use. The only difference in varnishes that I know of in the soft or hard option. I use a soft (high oil) brand name varnish and it’s been a great product over many years. Not perfect though as no varnish is. One can see scuff marks from feet contacting the cap rail at the spot where we board the boat. Most of those scuff marks wouldn’t be there if I used a low oil harder varnish but then most of the joints on the cap rail would show considerable dark spots/streaks or black areas. Due to lack of flexibility.

I used water based varnish once and that IMO was not good. Not good on my cap rail in Alaska but there may be some type of varnishing where it works great.

Having a varnish that’s soo great you need to tell everybody all about it is like bragg’in up the Ford or Chevrolet car in the old days. There were slight differences but they were mostly the same quality car. But people (millions) actually believed their brand was far better.
 
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Nomad Willy said:
Everybody talks up their usual/favorite varnish like it’s magic in a can. Most often Epifanes. Like everybody’s gonna die if they don’t use it.

IMO all the top paint manufactures offer a very comparable high quality varnish whether it be Schooner or the brand I use. The only difference in varnishes that I know of in the soft or hard option. I use a soft (high oil) brand name varnish and it’s been a great product over many years. Not perfect though as no varnish is. One can see scuff marks from feet contacting the cap rail at the spot where we board the boat. Most of those scuff marks wouldn’t be there if I used a low oil harder varnish but then most of the joints on the cap rail would show considerable dark spots/streaks or black areas. Due to lack of flexibility.

I used water based varnish once and that IMO was not good. Not good on my cap rail in Alaska but there may be some type of varnishing where it works great.

Having a varnish that’s soo great you need to tell everybody all about it is like bragg’in up the Ford or Chevrolet car in the old days. There were slight differences but they were mostly the same quality car. But people (millions) actually believed their brand was far better.
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I’ve used Epifanes a LOT, but I’d be the last one to say I thought it had magical qualities. Lots that frustrates me about it, but I stay with it for two reasons. First is that I understand THIS varnish and would sort of start over with another product. Second is that their woodfinish variant product is the only one I personally know of that can be recoated without sanding while still looking and performing like their traditional varnish. That puts it into its own category for me.

I’ve started using epoxy as a base coat on some things, but I won’t have an opinion on that for a number of years, maybe another 5 or 6. So far, it’s no worse, excepting one incident where I tried using a general purpose epoxy that was NOT compatible with varnishing. Is it better and the secret weapon? Jury is still out. Takes the same time to apply and the same time to remove as varnish/cetol.

But Epifanes as my product of choice, it’s no miracle, just a solid predictable product
 
Yes sir Ghost,
That’s why I use what I use too. You use a product over and over w good service you tend to be highly motivated to use it some more.

But I haven’t crossed the epoxy bridge and I won’t say “yet” either. Most think I’m an old man stuck in my ways. I won’t deny it but I won’t move on until I’m highly motivated.
 
I vastly prefer the look of traditional varnish to Cetol, but agree that it is a lot of work if the boat is uncovered in a sunny place. A good middle ground to consider is Awlwood. I have it on the cap rail of my N43 in Florida, and it lasts 2/3 years, whereas I used to have to varnish 2/3 times a year on other boats with traditional varnish.
Best,
Maldwin
 
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