Deal killers on a boat purchase...

dhays said:

That is an excellent point. A Pullman berth is a non-starter for my wife and I. Too bad as there are some older, high quality trawlers on the market that would be interesting if it weren't for that. Heck, for the price difference, I could buy an other boat with exposed teak, buy a boathouse, and still pay less than an all plastic and stainless exterior trawler of equivalent size.

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Since I've the weaker bladder, I sleep on the outside. Besides, I like the feeling of my sweetie crawling over me.

BandB said:

A deal killer for me on any purchase is for the salesperson to lie to me. The moment they start saying things I know not to be true, I'm gone. I might even ask questions that I know the answers to just to give them the chance. I just don't deal with dishonest people.

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I don't believe anything they say, so that's not as important to me.


Keith

dhays said:

That is an excellent point. A Pullman berth is a non-starter for my wife and I. Too bad as there are some older, high quality trawlers on the market that would be interesting if it weren't for that.

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Depends on the berth size. We have a 13' beam and two big twin berths. Each is close to what we used to call a "double bed" when I was a swain. When bunking families it's more versatile, and easier to make the bed, manageable when I'm out there in the damp off-season, looking forward to its electric blanket and my reading library alongside.

OTOH, we don't have a shower in Mokum, a 37' boat, it having beeen wheelchair accessible (30" door) for the PO, which left us with a hand shower hideout on the swim grid behind the dinghy. It's adorable to an old freak, and maintaining a shower stall and its habits? - nobody waved goodbye.

GFC said:

Things I've found when looking at boats to buy that were deal breakers:


1. both engines on a dual engine boat were so low on oil it took a gallon in each engine to bring them up to the full mark on the dipstick.
2. on a custom build boat that was several years old the wood around inside of the front windshield and below the doors from the pilothouse to the walkway were stained black from water ingress.


Other things that were deal breakers from me when we were looking for our current boat:
3. lack of headroom
4. designs where you were constantly going up and down steps as you moved from one area of the boat to another
5. single helm
6. no fly bridge
7. exterior wood of any kind (a small amount of interior wood was allowable)
8. insufficient tankage for the design of boat
9. lack of space for entertaining large groups (18-20 people)

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Just shows how different we all are I purchased a boat to be as far away for people and groups as absolute possible and a fly bridge to be out in late afternoon cool enjoying 360 deg views

gaston said:

Just shows how different we all are I purchased a boat to be as far away for people and groups as absolute possible and a fly bridge to be out in late afternoon cool enjoying 360 deg views

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Definitely a reminder why every potential buyer needs to define their own requirements.

1. A long f*ckit list. That's when the owner stops fixing things and just wants to sell the boat. We all expect a few items, but when more things don't work than do, you start to wonder about the expensive stuff.

2. Oil covering bilge water. Don't want either, but both is a sign of long avoided maintenance.

3. Soft decks, walls, and interior floors are difficult to determine the extent of needed repairs.

4. Poor equipment removal. Sooner or later most mechanical equipment needs to be replaced or rebuilt. If I need to pull the engine or replace the washing machine, I don't want to have to cut holes in the roof or side to extract or add equipment.

5. Unprotected propeller. Whether you have twins or a single, having the prop(s) as the lowest point is just begging for trouble.


Personal no goes include:

1. Poor interior helm station.
2. Gas engine or generator.
3. Twin engines on a boat under 45'.
4. Poor visibility from helm for stern in docking.
5. Canvas, Isenglass, and anything that resembles an oxygen tent.

Ted

I did say "most KK42s" Dont get me wrong I do love the design of these boats, its just that there reputation seems to be a bit overblown. I dont recall having ever met a kk42 owner that didnt think his/her boat was perfect. Brokers love these boats because they bring a premium (more $$$ in his pocket) and they sell very good. You never hear a seller or broker say "these boats were made next to the famed Chung Hwa boats".

kulas44 said:

You never hear a seller or broker say "these boats were made next to the famed Chung Hwa boats".

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That is because they were made next to Chien Hwa boats.

I don't know about Chung Hwa but Chien Hwa built some pretty stout Manatee's, of course Krogen told them how they wanted it built and did not skimp on the quality.
Bad talk about Volvo engines is deserved mainly in the price of engine parts. I have had two, pricey parts and connections made with "O" rings take some getting used too. However one of the best diesel mechanics I know told me the TMD 31A on the Manatee is a great engine. Not a "throw away design" meaning you can rebuild it.

HiDHo said:

I don't know about Chung Hwa but Chien Hwa built some pretty stout Manatee's, of course Krogen told them how they wanted it built and did not skimp on the quality.

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My understanding is the Manatee was built by Fu Hwa. KK used several different yards for different models of their boats.

Great thread. Thanks for posting this.

tcpip95 said:

Great thread. Thanks for posting this.

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Thanks, but Art really got this started and even though some duplication, I think the more talk we have on features we like and dislike, on things to run from when seeing a boat, just general discussions of what we each look at, the more complete lists we create for new purchasers who may come here.

They may go down the lists and think, "Yes, I need to list that one," "No, I disagree," "Yes, definitely," and "That guy's an idiot. Why would anyone say that." Everyone needs to figure out what is important to them and maybe threads like Art's and like this one and others we've done recently provide them with some thought stimulation. Maybe some great reminders as well for those of us who have gone through it before.

To start with for us we can just barely afford to be in this type boat ownership and do a respectable effort at maintaining one. That being said we always will own one that is going to need some work and dollars on the front end to get it up to what we like.
For me I have to like the the look first . If we can't get past the look I know we're not going to put in the dollars and our labor to get it where we want it .

Pack Mule said:

To start with for us we can just barely afford to be in this type boat ownership and do a respectable effort at maintaining one. That being said we always will own one that is going to need some work and dollars on the front end to get it up to what we like.
For me I have to like the the look first . If we can't get past the look I know we're not going to put in the dollars and our labor to get it where we want it .

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That makes a lot of sense. One isn't going to put a lot of work into something they basically dislike.

I can relate on cars and something as basic as keeping them clean. I owned one car for 7 Years that I never really liked it's looks. I wanted to be different and bought a SAAB convertible. I accomplished different. It was an excellent car but convertibles are supposed to be sporty and it most certainly was not sporty looking. A month after buying it, all I could think was "WHY?"

Thanks for the thread.

Photos are important, if poor quality photos are found in a brokerage offering I will dis-regard. In this day of quality cameras, taking good photos should be number one on the list. I am shocked at how many brokers use an owners family vacation photos from their summer trip in 2009. Maybe the quality of pics is connected to what a broker or owner does not want one to see.
How tough is it to clean up the dishes or make a bed or even provide a bit of lighting in the engine room or stateroom.

Graham

gaston said:

Just shows how different we all are I purchased a boat to be as far away for people and groups as absolute possible and a fly bridge to be out in late afternoon cool enjoying 360 deg views

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VIVA La Difference! We do two or three cruises a year where we have a large group on board, and it's usually where there is some special event going on.

The rest of the time is usually just the two of us. We too like to get "away from the madding crowd".

I will check the brass owners plaque, I think I saw builders name on it. All the USCG documentation we renewed when we bought her had Chein Hwa on it.

I thought of one more deal killer for me.

Evidence that the owners smoked on board. For me that would mean cleaning the entire interior of the boat Including inside all lockers, etc and replacing all fabrics and cushions. That is a lot of work and cost that would kill a deal for me.

TDunn said:

I thought of one more deal killer for me.

Evidence that the owners smoked on board. For me that would mean cleaning the entire interior of the boat Including inside all lockers, etc and replacing all fabrics and cushions. That is a lot of work and cost that would kill a deal for me.

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I'm 100% with you on that. It was also key to our home purchase. The cost of remediation can be major.

I think that 75% of all brokers should look at their own listings.

Some say single engine, and the details show two engines (or the reverse)

They almost never report the air draft.

Yacht world has the option for adding more information to each photo, to give you an idea what they are trying to show you. lots of them simply say photo nn. That's just plain lazy. If they spring for some set dressing, cleaning up the boat, and getting a pro photographer, at least title the photos.

Also, 75 photos and one fuzzy one in the engine room? What is that supposed to mean?

Like TDunn, I am a non-smoker and that is a deal breaker. many will put out ozone generators and such to get rid of the smell, but the first time you fire up the A/C on a high humidity day, BOOM sneeze attack on the way.

Also, Volvo engines are a non-starter for me (pun intended). Any boat with Volvo main engines is a no-go. They may be non-throw away engines, but the cost of their parts would probably encourage you to. Even a Volvo get-home / wing engine on a Nordhavn is a stretch for me.

I am taller than most, and hate when I hit my head on stuff. I get the price of making high headroom means making everything taller than most people need. But, walking around in a boat where you regularly hit you head would get old quickly. Even those that are fairly tall, when you hit the stairs they didn't allow enough room for taller people to go down them without ducking.

We went aboard a Kadey Krogen at TrawlerFest in FL recently. The sales guy sent me a pdf of a Kadey 50' open that is due out soon. No photos, just CAD images. The last one had the steps coming down to the helm from the flybridge and I swear the headroom was about even with the hand rail. Let's hope Kadey does not build it to those drawings.

Another thing I don't get is why some owners sell the boat but keep the tender. If you sell the boat with chocks for a specific tender hull, why keep the tender? Why not sell it with the boat and buy a boat you want.

One of the first things I look for in a PNW boat is 'AC' since you guys don't need it up there, often it's left off. While spending a summer up there would be exciting, I would like a boat that can keep me cool while getting back home (FL).

"Another thing I don't get is why some owners sell the boat but keep the tender. If you sell the boat with chocks for a specific tender hull, why keep the tender? Why not sell it with the boat and buy a boat you want. "


I will never sell my dinghy with my boat unless I am getting out of boating forever. It took me buying 4 dinghies before I found 'the one'. I may buy a 10 ft West Marine inflatable to throw on the back if it helped the sale.


Dinghy's (to me) are personal. You may not even like mine but I sure do.

dimer2 said:

I will never sell my dinghy with my boat unless I am getting out of boating forever. It took me buying 4 dinghies before I found 'the one'. I may buy a 10 ft West Marine inflatable to throw on the back if it helped the sale.

Dinghy's (to me) are personal. You may not even like mine but I sure do.

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I guess I've never been attached to a tender. On a 650k boat, buy another for 12k new. On the other hand, 12k more and the new to me has a new tender or knock it off the selling price.

dimer2 said:

"Another thing I don't get is why some owners sell the boat but keep the tender. If you sell the boat with chocks for a specific tender hull, why keep the tender? Why not sell it with the boat and buy a boat you want. "


I will never sell my dinghy with my boat unless I am getting out of boating forever. It took me buying 4 dinghies before I found 'the one'. I may buy a 10 ft West Marine inflatable to throw on the back if it helped the sale.


Dinghy's (to me) are personal. You may not even like mine but I sure do.

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Ours are jets so not likely to be desired by the majority of buyers. We would be more than willing to sell them with the boat. I also think that by the time we sell a boat, the tender will really need replacing. As much as we use the RIB's, I don't anticipate a very long life.

Our 1986 Krogen 42 was built by Chien Hwa

Well there you go, brokers and owners trying to sell dont tell that. To much stigma. And deserved.

B&B I think we must have had the same checklist, we finally went with the Jeanneau 43, so far love everything about it, as with all boats not perfect, but overall very happy. Barry

Just ran across this cool thread. TY BB for going at boaters' desires in reverse direction - should act as a help to additionally open eyes of newbies etc!

Here are my/our boat buyen Deal Killers (not necessarily in order of highest importance - but - they all are important to us!)...

Does not have fully equipped flying bridge

Offers little to no room to stand straight up and also be able to easily get to most locations in rather large, well laid-out, clean - engine, gen set / batt / toilet apparatus compartment

Has cold-lam construction (FRP over plywood) All hull portions must be well laid, full-on matt-weave / resin saturated, thick FRP

Has down galley

Has small windows

Does not have large master stateroom in rear with all needed amenities, queen bed, rear exit, fully equipped head w/ shower, many windows

Does not have front stateroom with large berth, most amenities, separate fully equipped head, escape hatch

Does not have large salon for 3 to 4 of xtra company and lots o' room general relaxing for us two

Does not have completely outfitted pilot station in salon

Does not offer lots of exterior deck (i.e. sun deck) that can have big bimini

Does not have full safety railings all around all exterior areas

Has exterior wood needing care

Has over 3' draft

Does not have twin engines

Can not cruise at 16 to 17 knots w/ 21 to 23 knot top end, and, is not economical to softly plod along at or a bit below hull speed when desired

Does not have planing hull w/ hard chines

Was not in generally excellent condition when purchased

Is not excellent handling in rough seas

- - I could go on - - but those are our most important... as to what a boat must have or not have in order for us to feel correct in purchasing it. Our Tolly fits the bill perfectly! She's a heck of a cool old boat.

Happy Boat-Style/Arrangement Daze! - Art

HiDHo said:

I will check the brass owners plaque, I think I saw builders name on it. All the USCG documentation we renewed when we bought her had Chein Hwa on it.

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I looked at the brass plate on one and it does say Chien Hwa so I am corrected. I was basing my comment on an old Yahoo post by someone who claimed to live in Taiwan in the 1980's.

Private sellers who don't know their own boat or how to advertise it.

I recently gave up on a boat before I even saw it because the self selling owner just couldn't get his act together.

The ad was sparse with generic brochure words and a few pictures but enough to make me interested. I emailed, asked for a full spec sheet, more pictures and where it was located. He took a while to get back with a couple more pictures and no further information. Just "call me so we can arrange a time to meet."

I can't be bothered.

Some private sellers know how to market, many don't.
If they can't approach it like a broker with a really good up front ad, It's tough to get me to look seriously.

Really, just use a Yachtworld ad as a template, add some good quality pictures, clean it up and be prepared to show it. "Only available after work Thursday" doesn't go far.

Hawgwash said:

Private sellers who don't know their own boat or how to advertise it.

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Does the story make sense? Is it logical? Why so few hours? Why not used for three years? Why selling?

I have a friend who looked yesterday at a 25' Whaler. It doesn't make sense. Registration expired in 2014. Only 30 hours. Ladder very rusty. Head has porta-potti. The story was that they'd bought a larger boat and then wanted a smaller boat to replace the Whaler. There was just no way to get a sense of comfort or feel like you'd gotten the full story.

Judge Judy's line is "If it doesn't make sense, it's usually not true."