Anchor setting Videos

Five very fine anchors.

With an arsenal like this, How could I possibly survive the shame of Panope (hypothetically) dragging ashore?

Panope said:

Pete, Rex (of Anchor Right) is one step ahead of you. As I write this, a Super Sarca #5 is enroute to me.
Yep, I am in Washington State, USA. A drive to Florida is a bit longer than I am willing to make!
Cheers,
Steve

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Steve, far be it for me to gainsay Rex, but are you sure it's a #5 he is sending. I have a #6 (~44lb), and my boat is only about 8-9 tonne. I would have thought you'd need that or even the #7 for your size, weight, and windage.

Perhaps when he said 5 he was thinking of the Excel, but you have one of those. It does need a number less than the SS for the same weigh of boat, I think. Guess you'll soon find out.

Regards,

Pete, I double checked my correspondence and It is indeed a #5 that Rex is sending. It's about 35 pounds. Just a guess, but I recon that Rex is looking to show that his smaller anchor can "stand up" to the big boys.

Steve

Here is the Fortress FX-16 undergoing the "Deep Set" test.

First try was at the requisite 3.5 to 1 scope. The anchor did not release even under maximum thrust of 910 pounds. However, the anchor had a continuous, very slow drag that I feel would have continued indefinitely.

Second try was at 5 to 1 scope. The anchor moved a total of about 2 anchor lengths and was nicely buried when it stopped moving. A very impressive performance of this 10 pound anchor.

Note: The Fortress website specifies that a minimum of 5 to 1 scope is to be used with their anchors.

Steve

Panope said:

Five very fine anchors.

With an arsenal like this, How could I possibly survive the shame of Panope (hypothetically) dragging ashore?

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Eric will be green with envy at that collection! Actually, I`m envious too.

That last video demonstrates a good lesson. When an anchor drags for many feet, don't count on it holding. It has probably picked up too much sea bed to be effective. Once I found an old t-shirt wrapped around the flukes.


So pick it up, clean it off and try again.


David

Panope said:

Pete, I double checked my correspondence and It is indeed a #5 that Rex is sending. It's about 35 pounds. Just a guess, but I recon that Rex is looking to show that his smaller anchor can "stand up" to the big boys.

Steve

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Ok, right, well, this could be interesting to all, because that size is definitely a bit under ideal by conventional wisdom for your boat. So, watch this thread, eh.?

djmarchand said:

That last video demonstrates a good lesson. When an anchor drags for many feet, don't count on it holding. It has probably picked up too much sea bed to be effective. Once I found an old t-shirt wrapped around the flukes.


So pick it up, clean it off and try again.


David

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David, how can you be so sure that the problem with Fortress (in the first attempt) is not simply that the scope was too short?

After all, the Fortress Anchor website states very clearly to not use scope less than 5 to 1.

Steve

Oh, I have no doubt that the short scope caused the anchor to drag. I was simply noting that after dragging for many feet, anchors can pick up a lot of sea bed that will make it even more difficult to set and hold on the next try.


David

I now see the point you are making and I agree.

That glob of seabed that was attached to the Fortress after the slow, high power drag was by far the most tenacious of any fouling that I have seen. The glob was probably 2 X the weight of the anchor.

And yes, the anchor would have had a very hard time re-setting with that impediment still attached.

Steve

Steve,
Yup .. I agree .. five very fine anchors. A lot of anchor power there. Most of the time looking at that Spade it's hard to try and concieve of a better anchor. But lots of machines in this world that look that perfect are bested as time goes on. But how good can an anchor get? How close to optimum are the new anchors? How close were we in 1938 when the Danforth came out. And how far have we actually come? But if we're close to the best that can be achieved one can just pick their favorite and go boldly forth. Hmmmm .. Isn't that what we're doing? But some of the "favorites" don't seem very close to ideal. And many look very different than others.
Many of us are using anchors over 40 years old and by that fact one could assume we are near the point of perfection but what's to be gained by upgrading to the most super anchor one can find. Not much in the minds of most as very few upgrade to the max.

But Steve .. one would think if those five anchors in post 121 were near perfection they would look almost the same. Evolution always leads to sameness .. or no difference at all.

manyboats said:

........ Evolution always leads to sameness .. or no difference at all.

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If one believes that the millions of animal species evolved from an early, simple creature, it would appear that species evolution works exactly the opposite of what you state.

I believe that as long as there is strong economic demand for anchors, improvements will never stop occurring.

Steve

Panope said:

If one believes that the millions of animal species evolved from an early, simple creature, it would appear that species evolution works exactly the opposite of what you state.

I believe that as long as there is strong economic demand for anchors, improvements will never stop occurring.

Steve

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I thought so too....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

Evolution is change in the heritable traits of biological populations over successive generations. Evolutionary processes give rise to diversity at every level of biological organisation, including the levels of species, individual organisms, and molecules.[2]

**MAJOR THREAD DRIFT ALERT**

Panope said:

If one believes that the millions of animal species evolved from an early, simple creature, it would appear that species evolution works exactly the opposite of what you state.

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But...there is more than one ecosystem placing different demands on different populations of organisms, which leads to an abundance of species.

The two eyeballs, nose & mouth end, four appendages and a digestive system in the middle, with the waste product disposal and reproductive bits at the other end seems to be a pretty popular design concept hinting at a common ancestor, no?

Towards Eric's point...ever compare the bill of a Flamingo to the mouth of a baleen Whale? Two entirely different species coming to the same conclusion for filtering small organisms out of water.

Steve, psneeld,
Indeed biological evolution starts form very simple and leads to the very complex and diverse. And form your link psneeld it appears the word evolution applies only to biology.

But it's not so. Mechanical product evolution weeds out the less than perfect solutions and eventially only one solution remains. A #2 shovel hasn't changed since I was born and aircraft for transporting people over long distances all look the same. But the airplane is still evolving. Technology will advance a notch and the airplane will experience change again.

But I'd say evolution of anchors for pleasure boats are definitely evolving. The fact that quite a few different styles/types look quite different indicates that perfection has not arrived. It may have a lot to do w the fact that the perfect seabed is as varied as the anchor designs. Some people thought pasionately that the Rocna was perfect but it came to pass that it wasn't.

But unlike biological evolution anchor evolution will IMO evolve until most all anchors look just about alike and are of the same type. However I could be wrong in that the variables like boat/vessel size, bottom types and other variables may need the perfect anchor for all those varying needs or missions. Like dirt bike road bike ect. Or do you think that the anchor will evolve into a good enough for everything device that speciality anchors will not be needed? Some here already thought that had arrived but many here still think that more than one anchor type is the only real smart way to go.

Steve - Super duper anchor-setting videos. Best I've ever seen! Thanks and Congrats!!

I do luv using Fortress FX-23 on our 34' Tollycraft!

Art said:

Steve - Super duper anchor-setting videos. Best I've ever seen! Thanks and Congrats!!...

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Indeed! And I like the testing is consistent and seems completely objective.
One thought, Rex told me a constantly used anchorage area can have a disturbed bottom surface offering degraded holding. I think you use one anchoring area to make the test equal for all products tested, which makes sense, but wondered what you thought about the usage bottom effect.

manyboats said:

But unlike biological evolution anchor evolution will IMO evolve until most all anchors look just about alike and are of the same type. However I could be wrong in that the variables like boat/vessel size, bottom types and other variables may need the perfect anchor for all those varying needs or missions. Like dirt bike road bike ect. Or do you think that the anchor will evolve into a good enough for everything device that speciality anchors will not be needed? Some here already thought that had arrived but many here still think that more than one anchor type is the only real smart way to go.

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Eric, Good points about the difference between biology and technology.

I think humans have generally been very poor at predicting future changes. Imagine telling the people living in 1900 that in 70 years, men will walk on the moon and only little girls will ride horses. They would have thought you were out of your mind.

I bet that electronics will eventually make their way into anchors. A live camera feed would certainly be a welcome addition. Maybe have pressure sensors located across the fluke? Or a sensor that gives a report of seabed composition? How about robotics that change the shape of the anchor as it drags? I know that all sounds crazy but not as crazy as many things we consider normal today like relying on a little handheld box that does our navigating via satellite (try explaining that one to an 19th century sea captain).

No one really NEEDS a better anchor (or any sort of pleasure boat for that matter). Market forces (I want a new toy!) will be the driver of future anchor improvements.

Steve

Art said:

Steve - Super duper anchor-setting videos. Best I've ever seen! Thanks and Congrats!!

I do luv using Fortress FX-23 on our 34' Tollycraft!

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Thanks, Art.

Panope said:

Five very fine anchors.

With an arsenal like this, How could I possibly survive the shame of Panope (hypothetically) dragging ashore?

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Good grief. How many anchors does one need?!

BruceK said:

Indeed! And I like the testing is consistent and seems completely objective.
One thought, Rex told me a constantly used anchorage area can have a disturbed bottom surface offering degraded holding. I think you use one anchoring area to make the test equal for all products tested, which makes sense, but wondered what you thought about the usage bottom effect.

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Thanks, Bruce

I try my best to be objective. I am only human so it is hard to be perfect.

Funny you should mention the disturbed bottom surface issue as I recently was thinking the same thing. My test area is near a popular Summertime anchorage but is far enough away from the grocery store that a boat will almost never use it.

However, there is one person who is potentially stirring up the bottom a meaningful amount - ME! I have recently been "inching" my test area away from the cluster of GPS way-points that mark previous sets. This area has uniform sub-strait for miles and miles. Also, the bottom is very flat giving me almost unlimited space to find undisturbed seabed.

Steve

markpierce said:

Good grief. How many anchors does one need?!

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The same as the number of pictures one needs of their own boat.

Steve

Mark,
I found a very nice 20lb Danforth for $30. Bought it.
My little 13lb Danforth has been so good I thought a big brother would be appropriate ... a bigger higher quality Danforth. This one is the best I've seen. Looks like it could pick up rocks between the flukes though. I now have three or four anchors for sale.

manyboats said:

Mechanical product evolution weeds out the less than perfect solutions and eventially only one solution remains…

The fact that quite a few different styles/types look quite different indicates that perfection has not arrived...

But unlike biological evolution anchor evolution will IMO evolve until most all anchors look just about alike and are of the same type.

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Very simply put, anchor evolution will continue forever because of one simple word - CAPITALISM.

If I invent a new anchor with a cool design and paint it yellow or blue and put a wicked-looking roll bar on it then I can market it as the best in the world and MAKE MONEY.

Mark said...
Good grief. How many anchors does one need?!

Steve replied....
The same as the number of pictures one needs of their own boat.

Touche´ Mark..? :lol:

Steve asked ...
Five very fine anchors. With an arsenal like this, How could I possibly survive the shame of Panope (hypothetically) dragging ashore?

My suggestion...
The tyranny of choice perchance..?

manyboats said:

Mark,
I found a very nice 20lb Danforth for $30. Bought it.
My little 13lb Danforth has been so good I thought a big brother would be appropriate ... a bigger higher quality Danforth. This one is the best I've seen. Looks like it could pick up rocks between the flukes though. I now have three or four anchors for sale.

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By George, I've got it...! (apologies to My Fair Lady)...Eric, the perfect solution awaits you. Once Steve has tested this #5 Super Sarca, even if it performs extremely well, which (sticking my neck out here a bit) it will, it is a bit light for his vessel as a regular main anchor, but it would be perfect for you.

Sorry about all these assumptions guys - tell me to butt out if you like - as possibly Steve may want to keep the SS after all? But, he just might be willing to sell it to you Eric, as you are basically just down the road from him, and then YOU COULD SELL ALL YOUR OTHER ANCHORS, except maybe that nice little 20lb Danforth you just bought as a soft mud option...you wouldn't need it, but it would make you feel better having one other I detect...oh and you'd be stuck with your dismembered Manson Supreme because you couldn't sell that sans roll bar now. Just sayin'..?

Horrified to hear Eric may be selling some anchors. Surely they are as beholden as children, especially the modified ones.

Thanks for think'in of me Peter but the Dan20 cost me 30 bucks. And I have great expectations for the Hogback Supreme but of course being an anchor it could supprise me and turn to scrap metal.

Also I think Steve just bought a new Spade. Not very similar to the SARCA but fairly close in performance. The SARCA has the roll bar (that I'm not nuts about) and the Spade has the ballast chamber (that I'm not nuts about) but both work very well. The very best anchor of the future will have neither aformentioned features ... IMO but anchor surprises are the norm.

Some time ago I was close to calling Rex about the SARCA but I went some other route. I'm anxious to get my modified Hogback Supreme and Chisel XYZ to Steve for vids and fun. But if the Dan20 works as well as my old Dan13 all I'll need is a rock anchor. An anchor I've never thought about and have no experience w comes to mind .. the Delta .. for that service.

Eric, have you not read Steve's last few posts. Rex is sending him a Super Sarca #5 to test. It will need to end up in a good home, if Steve doesn't need it himself, and it is a bit on the small side for his boat, I am pretty sure. This could be your best chance to get one. The #5 would be perfect for Willy. Steve is in your state, is he not..?

Peter,
That anchor is worth at least $400. USD. Too much for me now. I've become poor ... er.

Steve is close but kind of across the water. I probably will go his way on Willy when I recomission her .. two weeks about. Could go on a ferry too. Wish you were that close.