Contract Signed / New Build Underway

Auto Pilot

twistedtree said:

Their auto pilots steer well. I never had a problem with that on any boat. But on my most recent attempt I had quite a few interfacing problems among the different simrad AP components. So I dumped the AP too since I had no confidence that Simrad would fix any of it. My issues may have all been related to the FU80 follow up steering controls, and he NSO chart plotter, both of which were new compared to my last Simrad Pilot. But by that time I was done debugging stuff for a company that didn't care.

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Interesting note on the AP. We had
Simrad AP tied into Furuno systems on all three Nordies and didn't have any issues except in following seas. I never liked the way our N40's felt loose and squatted in those conditions. This occurred with or without AP. Our search continues.....

N4061 said:

Interesting note on the AP. We had
Simrad AP tied into Furuno systems on all three Nordies and didn't have any issues except in following seas. I never liked the way our N40's felt loose and squatted in those conditions. This occurred with or without AP. Our search continues.....

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Ironic but not surprising that Furuno is able to communicate better with Simrad, than Simrad can. That's part of the beauty to me of Furuno. They've built solid connectivity and interfaces with everyone. From a technological side they've managed to make things simpler. I use to instruct IT to build large fields and lots of them as we never knew what would be needed next or what we'd add on.

N4061 said:

Interesting note on the AP. We had

Simrad AP tied into Furuno systems on all three Nordies and didn't have any issues except in following seas. I never liked the way our N40's felt loose and squatted in those conditions. This occurred with or without AP. Our search continues.....

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Following seas are the hardest on any AP, and its very, very difficult to distinguish between the boat's fundamental steering characteristics, AP capabilities, and AP settings without carefully studying a specific boat.

twistedtree said:

Following seas are the hardest on any AP, and its very, very difficult to distinguish between the boat's fundamental steering characteristics, AP capabilities, and AP settings without carefully studying a specific boat.

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Often one will have to adjust the sensitivity in those situations.

BandB said:

Ironic but not surprising that Furuno is able to communicate better with Simrad, than Simrad can. That's part of the beauty to me of Furuno. They've built solid connectivity and interfaces with everyone. From a technological side they've managed to make things simpler. I use to instruct IT to build large fields and lots of them as we never knew what would be needed next or what we'd add on.

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I generally agree, but Furuno isn't free of communications bugs either. But I agree better than most. I have yet to publish the NavPilot N2K issues, for example, but should get to it soon. I generally like to give vendors generous time to address problems in hopes of reporting fixes along with the problems.

twistedtree said:

I generally agree, but Furuno isn't free of communications bugs either. But I agree better than most. I have yet to publish the NavPilot N2K issues, for example, but should get to it soon. I generally like to give vendors generous time to address problems in hopes of reporting fixes along with the problems.

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That's when vendors or companies show what they truly are in how they respond to problems. I know some owners of the new Sea Ray L Series who have had all sorts of problems with their electronics and some still not resolved. They have Raymarine.

Anxious to hear of your N2K issues.

BandB said:

That's when vendors or companies show what they truly are in how they respond to problems.

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That is indeed what it's all about. Nobody likes bugs, me included, but I accept that they happen. And as long as vendors take my bug reports seriously, investigate them, and (assuming they really are bugs) fixes them, I'm all good with that. The best that I have encountered, by far, is Rose Point with Coastal Explorer. Maretron is good too, but sometimes takes a little arm twisting to convince the problem is theirs and worth investigating. Simrad/Navico is the worst. The jury is still out on Furuno and Icom, but culturally Japanese engineering companies are very opaque and much slower to respond, so I remain hopeful.

What really ticks me off is when I put a lot of effort into isolating and reproducing a problem, take traces of network traffic, and annotate exactly what's going wrong, and it falls on deaf ears. Rather than shunning a bug presented on a gold platter, a more appropriate response would be "thank you".

Twisted

Your experience of handing it to them on a platter and them not using it reminds me of a GE engineer who had been heavily involved in the design of various Irons. He just no longer worked in a facility with access. So he sent it in with a detailed description. It came back with a note they could find nothing wrong. He did that a second time with the same result. Both times he'd signed his full name. Frustrated now he sent it in with a note that said "Iron no hot." He signed it with just his last name "Wong" even though he was fourth generational US and didn't even speak a word of Chinese. It came back perfectly repaired.

90% Rule

While attending the Seattle Boat Show I had the pleasure to meet and speak with a number of boaters who mentioned they knew me from either the Nordhavn Dreamers site, Trawler Forum, or magazine articles we have written. A few folks asked what I thought about different boats and how we decided on our boat. My response was “we use the 90% rule” to help decide. While I plan to write more about this simple process it basically comes down to looking at "who" will be aboard 90% of the time and "how" they honestly plan to use the boat 90% of the time. To do this right you really have to be honest with yourself (and spouse) and leave the dreaming and emotions out of the equation.

Example: for us we know it will only be Mary and I aboard 90% of the time so we don’t need two bedrooms. If we have an overnight guest they can sleep in the large salon sofa with ottomans. They will have their own head off the salon (nice touch on the H38) but if they didn’t, they could use the single head found on many boats under 40’. Our planned use of the boat 90% of the time will be for weekends anchoring out on the bay, day trips along the coastline and coastal harbor trips (averaging 60 miles per day). While we do not require “ocean crossing range” we are pleased to have 400 gallon fuel capacity providing for up to 800 miles range – nice.

With the “who and how” answered, it’s time to look at “where on the boat” you will spend 90% of you time. To accomplish this part of the exercise we list every area on the boat (inside and outside) then list by hours per day (24 hour period) how we will spend time in those areas. This step is performed for both at the dock and while underway. The results (for us) were the pilothouse came out on top followed by the salon / galley then………….. I think you get the picture. Once you have this information you should be in ready to find the right boat. More to follow.......

yes, we like the 45

Week 13

Well it appears the Chinese New Year has arrived or the yard beat their promise date to remove the boat from the mold. Things are looking up. We now have to insure we complete the balance of our interior design changes with the yards engineers quickly so we are do not impact schedule. We forwarded our "tweaks" to the galley / saloon earlier this week.

Week 13 - Update

Below is another nice photo of the boat soon after being released from the mold. I know from experience dealing with composites at work that properly preparing the mold with release agent is critical. Having the part (in the case a boat hull) release easily can become a challenge if you not careful. When you think about the weight of the hull sitting in the mold for weeks after its cured I would hate to think about it getting stuck and the stresses the crane would place on the lifting points (ouch). Hopefully no one will ever have to hear about this on their boat build.

John T.

On your interior plan John, I have noticed that the newer boats have the engine room hatch in the pilothouse hinged on the starboard side. I think this is bad design. On my previous Helmsman, they hinged the hatch on the port side. I used this to great advantage when I had to work on the electrical panel. With the hatch open, you can stand up in the engine room and work easily on any electrical modifications. With the hinge on the starboard side, you would have to be on your knees to perform this work.

I have told Scott about my thoughts but don't know if he made the change. You should check.

I'm going to ask a question and it's partly as we think of the future.

You're on your third new build, fourth boat, all in a fairly narrow size range and with more similarities than differences. What is it that leads to the changes and new boats? Do you grow disenchanted with certain things after a period of time? Do you just like having something new? Is it a given going in you'll only keep it a certain time or something that just happens along the way?

As we're rather new to the coastal and ocean cruising world and boats we haven't yet reached the stage of replacing a boat or deciding it's time to trade it for something new. We've been asked about how long before we'll change or what we think we'll replace with and we have no idea. On the lake with smaller boats we kept them about 7 years on average. We typically keep cars for 5 to 7 years. But we have no idea how long we'll keep a current boat.

Engine Hatch

windmist said:

On your interior plan John, I have noticed that the newer boats have the engine room hatch in the pilothouse hinged on the starboard side. I think this is bad design. On my previous Helmsman, they hinged the hatch on the port side. I used this to great advantage when I had to work on the electrical panel. With the hatch open, you can stand up in the engine room and work easily on any electrical modifications. With the hinge on the starboard side, you would have to be on your knees to perform this work.

I have told Scott about my thoughts but don't know if he made the change. You should check.

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Thanks for the input. I think we are OK since the electrical panel on the new boats is to port. Scott must have noticed this on previous boats and already made the change. Let us know if think of anything you would suggest we look at. Thanks

Different Boats

BandB said:

I'm going to ask a question and it's partly as we think of the future.

You're on your third new build, fourth boat, all in a fairly narrow size range and with more similarities than differences. What is it that leads to the changes and new boats? Do you grow disenchanted with certain things after a period of time? Do you just like having something new? Is it a given going in you'll only keep it a certain time or something that just happens along the way?

As we're rather new to the coastal and ocean cruising world and boats we haven't yet reached the stage of replacing a boat or deciding it's time to trade it for something new. We've been asked about how long before we'll change or what we think we'll replace with and we have no idea. On the lake with smaller boats we kept them about 7 years on average. We typically keep cars for 5 to 7 years. But we have no idea how long we'll keep a current boat.

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B and B, great question and not the first time we have been asked. While it may appear to some we get bored quickly with our boats that's not really the case. While we have been blessed to own and enjoy many different boats (its an important part our life style) over the years it is important to point out that we are not wealthy and work hard to enjoy this life style. Looking back the past 30 years I would estimate our average boat ownership period is about 4 years. This includes many trailer boats including my favorite 22 Mako. While this average span may seem low to some it just appears to fit our life style of keeping things exciting and dealing with "life's unexpected turns".

When we decided to explore the trawler market and built the first Nordhavn we entered the unchartered waters of "going super slow" and it was something Mary didn't care for. Yes we did place the boat for sale after only 18 months thinking it would take a year, not two weeks to sell before we started the search for something a little quicker. It didn't take long for Mary to recognize the benefits of "going slow" and back to Nordhavn. We really enjoyed our second N40 "Maria Elena" and enjoyed her for about 2 years until hit us hard and we had to sell her as we focused on medical issues. I don't think we would have ever sold her if not for this reason. When we decided to test the waters see if Mary could handle boating we purchased the N35 we never intended to keep the boat very long since it was a little small for our long term use but we also didn't want to purchase a new boat and risk the financial hit at resale. I honestly believe is the N35 had not proven to be such a mechanical headache causing us frustration, we would have keep her longer and not purchased the beach house in SD.

Recognizing that living near the water is not the same as being on the water made us sell the beach house and decide to build another boat which we plan to keep for awhile. God willing we will enjoy her on the west coast until I retire in about 5 years then move her to the east coast and experience the ICW over a couple of years while keeping our primary home in southern California. This is the reason we selected the boat we did, it can handle the open waters on the west coast and the ICW on the east coast followed by a trip to the islands if we decide. Time will tell and we recognize there are no guarantees in life so why wait.

OK, I will admit that I do enjoy the research, design and build process more than the average person and that likely plays into our "length of ownership" a little (just don't tell Mary). We also like new things especially boats in part for their warranty and better odds we will have fewer issues for the first few years. This is something that we are willing to pay for. Thanks for your question.

John

Very interesting, John.

Just as some are wildly arguing over flybridges at the moment, I think sometimes we do tend to not understand those with different philosophies toward boat ownership. It starts with new vs. used. The vast majority prefer the economics of buying used. I would never argue with their logic. Just not our choice. Your choice is new and your one trip down the used lane with the 35 only reconfirmed your preference. We prefer new on cars and boats, maintain them well, then at the appropriate time move on and hopefully have had a reasonable cost of ownership over the time. But we're not mechanical in nature and I don't have a high tolerance for problems putting a boat out of commission when I want to be boating. I think you make choices in boats, and we do to an extent, that will hold value better than some.

You never set out at the beginning of any of the boats planning to buy again in x years it seems. It all just sort of happened. That's how we think when asked how long we'll keep a boat. We have no idea. However, we do anticipate at some time, something will happen to drive us to want a change. Don't know when, don't know why, don't know what will precipitate the desire for change.

I find it interesting that none of your changes have been because something new out there caught your eye. I look around at boats and don't see a lot of change that would catch one's eye or excite them or drive them to want to make a change. That's good too for selling on the used market that the style just isn't moving very far or very fast. It's amazing how the vast majority of boats owned by people here and in the market aren't all that much different today, five years ago, or 20 years. Electronics change regularly but boats don't much.

We also like aspects of new builds such as building it to your own desires and needs. Then the health challenges that led you to changes, really twice as they first led you to sell and then getting through them led you to want to buy again. We know those will come in time. We have no idea what or how they'll impact us. Honestly, we're not very knowledgeable about aging and age related problems. Not only are we relatively young but we haven't really been around those who are older and have chronic health conditions much in our home and family life. I think most experience it with grand parents, then parents, then themselves. My mother was the only one of our parents to have any prolonged condition. Our parents also died younger than normal.

Perhaps a topic for another time and place, but thinking that every boat today that really interests us has essentially been built very similarly for the last 20 years. I'm sure Nordhavn aficionados can tell me all the differences in every model but I look and see the current line and I see very little real difference from years ago. Change is small and subtle.

"A benefit to a non-resident NOT putting the vessel into an LLC is that Washington state law allows a longer period (6 mos. vs. 45 days, as I recall) during which the vessel can be in Washington waters without triggering the Washington sales tax."

I believe the State of Washington just recently passed legislation to change the law so the larger boats, often in LLC's, would stay in WA waters and spend more money with businesses.

BandB said:

We typically keep cars for 5 to 7 years. But we have no idea how long we'll keep a current boat.

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On that...can we know what your present boat is BandB, or is it classified for some reason..? Just that I have often felt it hard to fully understand your posts, not knowing from whence you come, be it large, very large, or small. There's no judgment on here re boat size, you know...

Osr

As we continue our review of the H38 we now move up front to the owners stateroom (OSR) which is a term I always found a little "over reaching" for a smaller boat like ours but whos to argue. Having owned boats with center-lined island beds forward and one boat with the headboard to port (still forward) we prefer the first option. The primary reason is the ability to lay in bed and look aft, through the pilothouse into the bright salon thus reducing any feeling of isolation or feeling closed in. Again this is personal issue and many people may not give it second thought but its something Mary added to her must have list. This is such an issue it prevented us building the N43 a few years back due to the OSR being located down steep winding stairs and in the center of the boat.

A few other items we like about the island berth includes the four large size draws below the front of the bed and plenty of shelving on both side of the bed. A nice touch and something that plays into the "value" of this boat are the large raised shelving on both side of the bed. Believe it or not we had to pay over $1K to have these added on the N40's where on the H38 they are standard. If there is a down side to forward island berths it is normally their height and need for steps on either side of the bed to get into the bed. The H38 is not as high as some boats but still has one to two steps depending how far forward you walk. There are two hanging lockers (typical for this layout) to port and starboard which should provide enough space for us. While the overall size of the OSR is a little smaller (shorter) then we are use to (the large pilothouse needed to take room from somewhere) it should work just fine in part due to the high ceiling.

Another nice change is the separate head and shower rooms located within the OSR. We never had this type or arrangement before and look forward to experiencing something different. Like many boats in this size range the space allotted for each room is about right. We like the way Scott finished off the molded fiberglass with a fair amount of teak trim. The fresh water electric head comes standard which is also a nice upgrade from many boats including our previous boats. The same is true for the day head off the salon.

A single large overhead hatch (trimmed with teak) provides lots of light and ventilation when required. While some people may not give this hatch much thought we look at it as an emergency escape hatch in case of a fire aboard in the middle of the night.

One last item to mention about the OSR is the door and steps leading from the pilothouse. This really something cool and the result of the low profile pilothouse which is only two steps above the OSR. Due to this short difference you don't have enough room or height for a full size (6') door so the boat has a small half door and sliding overhead hatch that closes up the OSR room for full privacy. Somewhat like on a sailboat when entering the cabin below from the outside deck (pretty cool). What we like about this design besides being different is the ability to close the door and leaving the sliding hatch open for natural light.

Well that's about it for now. More to follow..........

John

I appreciate your very well thought out approach to this build. Ive been accused of over-thinking and spending more time than most deem necessary on major decisions from time to time. No need for buyers regret when you're confident that you've thoroughly evaluated all feasible options and made the best decision based on your specific wants and needs.

Interesting electronics discussion. I recently updated to the new Furuno Touch screens and have been very happy with them. I initially considered Simrad as well but my supplier quit carrying Simrad mainly due to the number of returns and the lack of responsiveness from the company. He indicated that over 3 month period last year, he had a 40% return rate on the Simrad screens. Enough said. Garmin has some very nice offerings as well but at the end of the day, I decided to stick with the company I was most familiar with and had the most confidence in.

Best of luck with your build. Looking forward to following it through to completion.

Mike

Peter B said:

On that...can we know what your present boat is BandB, or is it classified for some reason..? Just that I have often felt it hard to fully understand your posts, not knowing from whence you come, be it large, very large, or small. There's no judgment on here re boat size, you know...

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We have several boats, from 39' up. From center console to Riva sport boat to 130'. Correction. From 10' on up. We love our RIB's.

N4061 said:

it should work just fine in part due to the high ceiling.

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What is the ceiling height?

BandB said:

We have several boats, from 39' up. From center console to Riva sport boat to 130'. Correction. From 10' on up. We love our RIB's.

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BB - Got Picts? What two (larger than 10' RIB's) were/are your and Girl-B's favorites??

Overthinking or Researching

haneyrm said:

I appreciate your very well thought out approach to this build. Ive been accused of over-thinking and spending more time than most deem necessary on major decisions from time to time. No need for buyers regret when you're confident that you've thoroughly evaluated all feasible options and made the best decision based on your specific wants and needs.

Interesting electronics discussion. I recently updated to the new Furuno Touch screens and have been very happy with them.

Mike

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Mike, thanks for your post. When it comes to a significant investment like the purchase of a boat,that will un-doubtfully be asked to perform multiple missions requiring multiple complex systems, the opportunity to get it wrong is closer then we think. I believe people should take their time and do their research before making the commitment to help keep the odds of getting right in your corner. I researched full displacement (FD) trawlers for four years (2000 - 2004) before starting out building our first trawler which I believe I got right even though Mary ended up with a different conclusion. Just goes to show that even the best planning can go wrong.

This reminds me when we had our second N40 we for sale and I received an email from a gentlemen from Europe advising he would be interested in trading his newer N47 for our smaller boat (plus cash). He explained his family didn't care for the "go slow" speed of the boat and he needed something smaller he could use by himself. His boat was outfitted very well indicating he put a lot of thought into the planning stages and it was unfortunate his plans didn't materialize but likely not his fault. Boating, more than most other forms of transportation, entertainment or sport can be a tricky balancing act, especially when there is more than one person in the equation. Taking a little extra time to get it right (or as close as possible) may be the best investment a person can make.

Thanks for the input on the electronics, I'm starting to see a trend here and told Mary just yesterday I should likely follow the "if its not broke don't fix it" analogy regarding our positive experience with Furuno.

John

Tenders - any thoughts?

One of the great things about TF is the interactive discussion on various topics. So why not start one on this thread about "tenders" and what people think works best? For the next boat we are thinking about a 9' Caribe solid hull with small outboard. We had a Caribe prior and had no real complaints. I like their wide beams and 9" long is all we need for the two of us. We will store the boat up top on the aft beck and add a davit to launch the boat. The other type of dingy I'm looking at is more of a traditional rowing style boat but with a small OB like the Whitetail. Beautiful looking boat with great lines and teak trim. We plan to use the dingy often for sunset cruises in the marina and around the bay. As you can see we have yet another decision on the horizon. Any thoughts?

John

haneyrm said:

Interesting electronics discussion. I recently updated to the new Furuno Touch screens and have been very happy with them. I initially considered Simrad as well but my supplier quit carrying Simrad mainly due to the number of returns and the lack of responsiveness from the company. He indicated that over 3 month period last year, he had a 40% return rate on the Simrad screens. Enough said.

Mike

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Well, I will add more then

Our Lowrance HDS7/GenII on our previous boat had a failure of the screen. As previously mentioned, support was good - but had I known this was more than a one-off issue, perhaps I would have gone in a different direction.

Art said:

BB - Got Picts? What two (larger than 10' RIB's) were/are your and Girl-B's favorites??

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No pics...no favorites. We love the RIB's too. Love fast. But then we like long range cruising. Our favorite is the one we're on today. I will disclose the one that fits more closely to this site although still rather a poor match.

We struggled and struggled deciding on a loop boat. A lot of things influenced that. We were close to a Hatteras 60 but it never turned us on, plus the lower helm was an issue with them. We considered a Sea Ray L Series but then became aware of the problems even those who love them have. We came close to a custom build, a new version of the old Pacific Mariner 65. We were strongly considering Grand Banks but then all the turmoil of the company led us away. The boat we would have selected is no longer offered.

We initially said 50', then said 60' was the absolute maximum but then over time we travel with more people.

We considered everything from KK (too slow) to Fleming (too slow although faster than KK) to Coastal Craft (too aluminum) to Beneteau to Princess. If our Riva had a flybridge it would have been perfect and still was tempting but not for the Loop and all the Inland Rivers.

We heard all the statements about what is too large, docking issues, everything so we checked marinas over every piece of the loop to see how much was old wive's tales and how much was a real issue. We talked to people who have looped with everything from 30' to a 72' Hatteras. We found that there are many marinas that can't handle larger but there is virtually no area, no hundred mile run, where there isn't a marina that can.

Some aspects that we did define along the way. Must cruise at a minimum of 20 knots, must have a flybridge, must have galley up. Must have at least 3 staterooms. Must have two helms. Must carry a decent sized RIB. Must be a company we trust. Many other things.

Now, we looked briefly at Sunseeker. Manhattan is their flybridge moniker. A Manhattan 63 had a lot of good attributes but galley down so no. They like Riva just didn't have anything that worked...until

Sunseeker introduced the Manhattan 65. Exact same boat as the 63 except galley up. Yes, I know, crazy that a 63 and 65 are identical hulls. Still had some issues that we'll have to get corrected, primarily that the arch won't clear with all the electronics so have to hinge it. Also, not our favorite electronic options. I hate buying and immediately making changes but necessary in this case. So, that's the one on the way.

This boat will start the loop and get to the TN River. Then stop for a year or two to cruise the TN, the Cumberland, the Ohio and the Missouri. Then home and start it again. Maybe every 4 or 5 years. Hitting the places missed the first time or more time in the same places. More time on each of the great lakes. Always starting in NY as early May as things are open and safe. Always south from Chicago just in time in September. Very little time on the East coast or Gulf as we cruise them regularly. It will spend more winters docked on the TN rather than in South Florida.

We love all types of boating. We lived until 2012 on Lake Norman in NC and had runabouts. Our last boat there was a 30' Cobalt bowrider. It did have 50+ knot speed. Seems silly on a lake that size but we liked it. We didn't regularly run that fast. We like small towns and large cities when cruising. New places. We only like to travel by boat. We love Apalachicola and New York City. We like Atlantis in Nassau and we like the Exumas. We loved Alaska and we loved Bocas del Toro, Panama. You better have a boat there as it's so far away from the rest of civilization.

Oh and Girl B said her favorite was a Cigarette. But then it would be just for an hour or two. Even she admits 135 mph in a 50' boat is a bit too much for her. We just happened to see a show on their history and boats on television the other night.

The one we get out in when it's just the two of us is her "Baby Riva" as she calls it. 44' open boat. WOT 40 knots, cruise 35 knots. Great for running to Miami for lunch or the day or to West Palm. It's never been out of Florida.

N4061 said:

One of the great things about TF is the interactive discussion on various topics. So why not start one on this thread about "tenders" and what people think works best? For the next boat we are thinking about a 9' Caribe solid hull with small outboard. We had a Caribe prior and had no real complaints. I like their wide beams and 9" long is all we need for the two of us. We will store the boat up top on the aft beck and add a davit to launch the boat. The other type of dingy I'm looking at is more of a traditional rowing style boat but with a small OB like the Whitetail. Beautiful looking boat with great lines and teak trim. We plan to use the dingy often for sunset cruises in the marina and around the bay. As you can see we have yet another decision on the horizon. Any thoughts?

John

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We'll be a minority of one on this subject but we love Jet RIB's. They perform great and all the advantages of no propeller. They do require more maintenance than an outboard. Williams makes as small as 9'6" and is introducing a new Mini-Jet this year. The difference is that the current model 285 uses a Textron engine (formerly Weber before the buyout) and the Mini-Jet will use Rotax. It will then weigh only about 440 lbs vs 660 lbs for the model 285. Other lines of jet Ribs use Yamaha engines. Larger jets come with diesel, typically Yanmar.

Aquascan has a 9' with Yamaha. Then there is Carbon Craft starting at 10' and triple the price. The other negative about any jet rib is price. The smallest Williams is just over $30k vs. $15k for a comparable outboard.

We like the safety of no propellers. We also like the way they store as without a long outboard drive they can sit lower and you can get a longer boat in the same space. We also like the ease of running in shallow waters but with the caveat not to run as shallow as you can. Below 2' depth you do risk sucking up debris and even sand into the impeller. So, just because you can, doesn't mean you should. Just like beaching an outboard you should probably turn the engine off before you get all the way beached.

Oh and a Williams 285 will run a little over 40 knots lightly loaded. So they're good for exploring at 10 - 30 knots.

Jet tenders are far more popular in Europe than the US. You see a lot of European boats designed with garages built for jets. Avon also sells jet Ribs there but not in the US, at least not officially.

BandB said:

We have several boats, from 39' up. From center console to Riva sport boat to 130'. Correction. From 10' on up. We love our RIB's.

Click to expand...

Ooooookkkk...can I re-phrase that a bit, as still none the wiser really. Which of your many boats is the one you cruise on most, would be the most relevant query I guess. Mainly so we understand the context of your posts a bit better. Hey, if it's the 130' one, well great. We all like more space...

Oh, wait...thanks...you did answer that, but I missed it in post 208, because I jumped it with the above quote. Sorry about that, but thanks very much for that post. A Manhattan 65 eh..? Great boat. Love it. And now I feel like I really know where you and wifey B are coming from, what experience you have had to call on (clearly considerable), and it makes it much easier to grasp what you say.
Good luck with your great loop trip. I'd love to be able to come over and do that. Ain't going to happen...