Project on eBay - even free not worth it?

There's an interesting (cheap) 1983 35' Chien Hwa on eBay with no reserve and currently at $940 just a 100 or so miles from me (link is below). While I'm not considering it, I am interested from a purely educational standpoint as to what it might take to get this thing running as my wife and I continue to look and learn. Yes, I realize it's pure speculation and there is no way to know for sure.

Clearly the boat needs engine work, worst case rebuilt engine at ~$10k?

Windows show water damage, so replace or reseat most/all of the windows and repair interior water damage. Is there the possibility of black mold or serious damage throughout the boat?

I'm assuming that soft decks are likely, so perhaps most of the deck would need to be cut, re-cored, and then glassed. Either lots of owner time or ~$10-15k for a professional?

No serviceable electronics it appears. Assume heads are shot as well? What are the chances of the electrical system functioning more or less correctly?

Would fuel tanks be another concern?

Are there concerns with the hull, such as blistering? What about the transmission and running gear? More areas for concern I'm assuming.

And then there would be all the cosmetic work...

My conclusion is that paying any amount of money for this boat is probably a losing proposition. Because the seller won't allow a potential buyer to see the boat first, it's impossible to know exactly whats wrong and what's wrong could far exceed the cost of buying a similar boat in acceptable condition. Am I likely correct in my line of thinking?

Or could you buy it, leave it at the marina for the $150 a month, assess it, and if it's too much work just sell it locally for someone who never wants to run it, just live on it?

Thanks for playing along and helping educate me!

1983 Chien Hwa Trawler 35' Perkins 6 3544 Series Diesel MS No Fees No Reserve | eBay

Greetings,
Mr. P. Whoo boy! Boat needs work? All of the above (post #1). Could be easy cheap fixes (mechanical) but most probably not. Leaks and cosmetics tend to be very labor intensive so if someone actually prefers working on boats rather than boating...sure. Probably a good project IF the marina will allow you to work on it on their property.

Lots of possibilities, most likely the salvage would make the most sense. Oh to be 40 years younger.

If will take many times more than it cost to build it originally. Sadly this boat isn't misrepresentative of what non-profits often encounter. Now, there are people who donate large items of value to be auctioned on behalf of charities. But then there are those who donate total pieces of junk getting a completely unreasonable receipt for an overvalued donation.

If you're a DIY'er for every dollar you spend, you may get $0.50 value in return but only if you finish the job. For anyone else 25% return is the most you can expect.

It's a huge gamble and without examining it only estimates could be given. Here are mine.

For a DIY'er. Cost to get it to decent shape $25k - $75k. Low end assumes just cosmetics to interior, minor engine repairs, electronics, and minor work throughout. Upper end assumes replace engine and all electronics, hull work, painting, appliances, and much interior work.

For a non-DIY'er just double those numbers $50k - $150k.

I know the intentions of some donating large items like boats and cars is good, but for most it's to get a larger deduction than the value of the item. Otherwise, they'd just sell it and donate the money. The one exception is select items and celebrity items where high dollar bidding will take place and bidders will pay far more due to the cause than they would otherwise. We went to one of those auctions and were just in shock.

Another tricky donation is stock, but in that situation everyone often wins. The person donating chooses a stock that is worth far more than they paid. By not selling it they don't pay the capital gains tax, but they do get to deduct it's current value. The charity gets it's current value.

Put your back to the boat....then run, run, run.

Panhandler said:

Because the seller won't allow a potential buyer to see the boat first,...

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Seriously? You can't see the boat first?

That's what the ad says. Supposedly to protect the seller's confidentiality...

JMO, this boat is straight up junk. It has a negative value. If you bought it your only way out would be to sue the seller for misrepresentation. fair shape, really ?

Good God ! I can smell it from here.

Project boats are only worth the effort if you can do the work and enjoy rebuilding more than boating or are of historical or collector value. They rarely make financial sense by any standard.

eyschulman said:

Project boats are only worth the effort if you can do the work and enjoy rebuilding more than boating or are of historical or collector value. They rarely make financial sense by any standard.

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And just because it's old, doesn't mean it's valuable. Guess I've watched too much Pawn Stars, but that line is true. If you're going to take on an older boat to restore then make it one where the name or the style will make it desirable. No Chien Hwa. Restore an old Chris Craft or Post or Hatteras or Grand Banks.

Thanks, all. Glad to know my initial thoughts were correct!

As my grand father would have said cheaper to give it away than pay for the funeral.

If you had a pond and room in your backyard......you could reenact the Gilligan's Island episodes

jleonard said:

If you had a pond and room in your backyard......you could reenact the Gilligan's Island episodes

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:lol:

Pull out what is reusable/sell-able, tow to deep waters, "salvage" those reusable through hull fittings, sail away.

Will be interesting to watch the bidding over the next few days. Up to 1200 or so now. Could see a bidding war develop.

Prediction. It will sell. The sale will not go through. It will be for sale again.

I've never heard of a trawler w an IO. It says "inboard outboard". Did they actually make an IO powered trawler?

IO part is probably a typo.

It's one thing to buy a small POS boat from the seller. You hook up to them, haul them home, park them, haul them to the dump a few years later since you didn't ever get them running.

However, something you have to pay storage on is different. Wonder if the slip fee is current or a surprise there? What about mechanics charges?

The owner claims to have run it last summer. I see that possibility. Went out on it. Engine cut off. Got towed in. Said, I'm through with this. Won't someone please take this off my hands.

I read "a little work on the interior" but I see and would bet the entire interior is in bad shape. It all looks quite weathered to me. Not like inside should be. Oh, don't think they walked away in disgust? They didn't even fool with the dishes out. Everything with a soft surface is covered mildew and mold. Look at the floor around the engine hatch and the clear signs it's been very wet. Look at the walls in the v-berth and all the signs of leaks. Look at the crap beside the sink and the way things overall have been left, much a let's get the heck out of here and as far away from this thing as we can.

As to the inboard/outboard, I just think it's an organization that knows nothing about the boat as it's a Perkins and straight inboard I feel reasonably certain.

I do give it one positive. When the photo was taken, it was floating. But then another interesting point. We have no idea when the photo was taken. The seller knows nothing about it. They're in California and the boat in MS.

And what does this mean? "Donor has state equivalent of title to the boat and will transfer to the purchaser." Either they have a title or they don't. Titling a boat is optional in MS. What a joy to deal with in another state if it's never been titled.

And now the most important part of my post:

Money after whatever portion goes to It's Donated goes to Eye Birth Defects Research Foundation.

Last reported year, 2013, the organization receiving the money raised $22k and had expenses of $33k. Their liabilities exceeded their assets at the end of the year by $6k. While I find eyes, especially of children, to be extremely important and touching, this organization gave nothing toward it's claimed objective of eye research and the only expenses that in any way might have benefitted someone are $521 for Medical Supplies and $118 for travel.

Please, if you have $1200 extra sitting around, find a better way to use it.

That one has the look of a boat that rested on the bottom, filled with water, and was refloated and immediately "Donated".

Those donation programs used to get the donor a tax receipt for whatever value was agreed between the donor and the program, but the tax man (at least the Canada revenue Agency) has new rules that only give the donor a tax credit based upon the actual resale value, hence the speedy resale.

koliver said:

That one has the look of a boat that rested on the bottom, filled with water, and was refloated and immediately "Donated".

Those donation programs used to get the donor a tax receipt for whatever value was agreed between the donor and the program, but the tax man (at least the Canada revenue Agency) has new rules that only give the donor a tax credit based upon the actual resale value, hence the speedy resale.

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I would agree with your appraisal. You wonder if it was insured and totaled.

That's what this site is doing now too. They give an initial receipt for $500 and then a final receipt for whatever it sold for.

Yes, all these car donations were at one time used by many as tax schemes to get inflated deductions. They've really clamped down on donation of property. Salvation Army now has a donation pricing guide as personal items are supposed to be at thrift store prices. There once were wealthy ladies who would buy expensive dresses, wear them once or twice, donate them and deduct the original purchase price and they'd do similar with furniture. They'd refurnish their house taking huge donations for the old and in essence the government (though the tax deduction) was footing a large part of the cost of refurnishing, perhaps 30-40%. Not as many antiques donated now that an appraisal is required and many of the "antiques" are just old.

There's a bit of a trend in used high end furniture stores. Some of those who sell to the store or put it on consignment previously donated. Now they sell it and donate the money.

People who legitimately donate money or items do so to help causes and I really resent when the charity is not spending the money for that cause. There are some huge charities with horrific records. Then I know one large foundation that their sole use of funds is to help patients with major illnesses or diseases who need assistance. They raised $82 million last year and 98.5% went directly to patients. Their entire administrative costs were no more than the heads of some large charities make.

Why is it that a lot of folks think you can just take an old boat out and sink it. It doesnt really work that way. First problem will be that it wont sink, just kinda keep floating mostly submerged. Now youve created a hazard to navigation. Even if it does sink it will leave an oil trail for miles, easy for the USCG to track. They like to investigate sinkings. The worst case would be that it floats around, leaking oil and diesel until someone hits it in the night, then they sink. Again, the coasties investigate, find your boat, you're screwed.

kulas44 said:

Why is it that a lot of folks think you can just take an old boat out and sink it. It doesnt really work that way. First problem will be that it wont sink, just kinda keep floating mostly submerged. Now youve created a hazard to navigation. Even if it does sink it will leave an oil trail for miles, easy for the USCG to track. They like to investigate sinkings. The worst case would be that it floats around, leaking oil and diesel until someone hits it in the night, then they sink. Again, the coasties investigate, find your boat, you're screwed.

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I don't think anyone is seriously suggesting doing that. There has been some of that at Stock Island, Key West, but in a roundabout way. Much like this boat we're talking about that the buyer won't intend to sink. In the Stock Island scenario, the marina is finding itself stuck with an old piece of junk no one wants. They now own it over past due rents, liens placed and judgments. So they sell it to a homeless person or other for $10 or less. Then they help the person get it running and move away from the dock. The buyer gets out a ways, the boat starts taking on water, the CG rescues the new owner. Now the CG has the problem of salvage.

Stephen, 66, is retired and lives on $ 800/month social security and until that afternoon had never been on a boat at sea before. He’d used all of his savings to buy into this great Craig’s List “bargain”: a 1943 tugboat called “Tilly”.

Sonia Eliott. She too was given a great deal: a 45- foot wooden sailboat that had been abandoned for six years at a Stock Island boatyard. The only condition was that she had to take the boat away as soon as it had been lowered into the water.

“It started to sink right away,” said Sonia, “I pleaded with them to haul it back out, so we could try to fix it, but they said that was not the deal.”
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The cost of salvage and disposal can run from $50k to $500k.

The 1983 Chien Hwa went for $4,338 on eBay... wow.

Panhandler said:

The 1983 Chien Hwa went for $4,338 on eBay... wow.

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That's about $30k more than it's worth probably.

Panhandler said:

The 1983 Chien Hwa went for $4,338 on eBay... wow.

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For someone who wants a cheap stationary live aboard it may be a good deal. We have many badly deteriorating live aboard boats in Seattle area where land rents and taxes are very high compared to marina rents. I don't know what other areas are experiencing but this does happen here. These boats become a problem when they finally go all the way down hill.

eyschulman said:

For someone who wants a cheap stationary live aboard it may be a good deal. We have many badly deteriorating live aboard boats in Seattle area where land rents and taxes are very high compared to marina rents. I don't know what other areas are experiencing but this does happen here. These boats become a problem when they finally go all the way down hill.

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I can imagine it's going to be very costly just moving it from where it is to another marina. Then you're talking somehow insuring it. Then many marinas won't take a boat that won't run on it's on power. And, if it sinks, worse. Plus hope they've determined no liens on it.