Recommendations for a wood boat surveyors in SW Florida

The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
I really think wood boats are a mystery to most folks in a market that's is dominated by fiberglass. 20 years ago I suspect the general boating public would have had different attitude.

I think if you substituted the number "40" for "20" it might be a more accurate statement. :)

Wood takes a lot of care, there's no way around it. By "care" I don't necessarily mean one has to work on it constantly, but one has to be aware of it constantly and ensure that things aren't happening that will cause one to have to work on it constantly.

While we never had any thought of purchasing a wood boat when we decided to buy our own cabin cruiser, the broker we hired to find a boat for us had a pretty good comparison summary I thought.

He said (I'm paraphrasing) "If you berth your boat outside and have a fiberglass boat and have to leave it for six months, when you come back it will be absolutely filthy but that's about it. If you have a wood boat, when you come back all sorts of problems may well have gotten a toehold and if you don't do anything about them right away the problems will get worse at an accelerating rate."

A generality, obviously. But over the 17-plus years we've had our cruiser we've had a few wood boats around us and the validity of our broker's statement has been well demonstrated.

Wood is a great material to build a boat from. But most recreational boaters don't want to screw with it. Or perhaps more accurately, they don't want to worry about having to screw with it.

Some years ago the maintenance director of Air Malta, in an interview about the 737s the airline flew at the time, told me their phrase for the 737 was "fly and forget." The plane was that reliable for them.

Fiberglass boats are the same way. Sure, the systems and engines and stuff can cause problems, but they're the same systems and engines and stuff that are in a wood cruiser.

But fiberglass--- being inert--- just sits there, year after year, and does nothing. Wood is not inert. Its cells are susceptible to moisture, dryness, heat, cold, deterioration, rot, even insects. Most of the structural problems fiberglass cruisers are susceptible to are caused by something other than the fiberglass. Wood coring seems to be the most common culprit.

Sure, fiberglass hulls can experience blistering but blisters are not only non-structural (in most cases) but they're relatively easy to fix.

I have nothing aesthetically against a well-designed (by my standards) wood boat. Almost all of my favorite individual boats over the decades have been wood (four examples below).

A past neighbor of ours had a big Hacker Craft runabout that he kept on a trailer inside an addition built onto his garage. The thing was absolutely gorgeous. And protected 99 percent of the time from rain, sun, cold, and UV, it stayed gorgeous.

There is a 40-something foot Chris Craft dating from (I assume) the 1950s or 60s that has been in our part of the harbor now for about 15 years. It had been boathouse kept in Seattle until a fellow bought it, drove it north, and lived on it in an outside slip for a number of years. He kept after it and it always looked quite good.

Then his circumstances changed and he moved ashore and put the boat up for sale. It took a long time to sell---- years--- and while he continued to come down and give it preventative care it slowly began to deteriorate in terms of appearance.

Finally it sold to a family who moved it to our dock. They do not ignore the boat, but it sits more than it gets paid attention to. And to my admittedly unprofessional eye, there are lots and lots of new little "problems" that I can see cropping up; sections of blackening wood, opening seams and joints in the topsides and deck, failing paint and varnish and so on.

There was also a fiberglass Chris Craft cruiser on our dock for many, many years. Perhaps 36-38 feet. The family that owned it used it occasionally at first but then it just sat. Turning green with algae, the finish was long gone from the little bit of exterior teak, the fiberglass topsides and hulls were streaked with soot, and so on. Every now and then someone would buy it and clean it up. And it always cleaned up quite nicely with a fairly minimal effort.

I think most boaters think a well-designed wood boat is terrific as long as it's someone else's wood boat.

For someone with the time, skills, tools, and desire to maintain a wood boat--- or with the money to have it maintained properly--- great. Or, if like our former neighbor, can manage to keep the boat completely protected from all the elements.

But most boaters aren't like that. Hell, we've barely been able to keep abreast of the demands of our own fiberglass cruiser. And the thing that takes the most care and feeding on this going-on-43-year-old boat? The wood. Fortunately, with the exception of the deck and cabin top cores, none of the wood on or in this boat is structural.

So I think the era of wood boats has long since passed. Even back in the 1970s when I was a young guy in Hawaii and getting into ocean fishing there were still a lot of locals with wood sportfish boats, known over there as haole sampans (haole being the Hawaiian word for white, aka Caucasian). And to a man, they hated them. Not because they were bad boats but because they couldn't wait to be able to afford a fiberglass boat that they wouldn't have to screw with anymore. They could just go fishing.

It's great there are still some folks left who like them enough to give them the care and feeding they require and, for the nice ones, deserve. But I suspect the number of people like that is dwindling rapidly.
 

Attachments

  • Gikumi.jpg
    Gikumi.jpg
    115.8 KB · Views: 73
  • PT-117.jpg
    PT-117.jpg
    80.6 KB · Views: 72
  • Boat Silva Bay.jpg
    Boat Silva Bay.jpg
    137 KB · Views: 78
  • shipyardorion.jpg
    shipyardorion.jpg
    69.1 KB · Views: 67
Last edited:
BB , I still have my eye on that Alaskan 49 . It could be the death of me but so could William . We have been woodworking, painting and varnishing on our last two boats for about 15 years now . I guess that's what we like to do, plus it's entertaining for everyone else at the dock .
 
BB could it be that this hair or broken fibers only shows up around where the strap is something as simple as condensation forming on the strap ?

Good thought. May be the corrosion of the copper is contributing some chemecial that AIDS in the process. I'm not a chemist but I'll bet there is one out there that reads this forum. Let's see what happens.
I have found a bit of hair in some other unlikely places but not on the level of the areas adjacent to the strap. Bob Lowe on the GB forum gave me a good explanation of the process and summed it up as a normal process that occurs in spots on wood boats in salt water. Summed up it is the result of the process do to damp wood salt water evaporating. The salt crystals formed as the the water evaporates cut the individual wood fibers creating "hair". The process to mitigate is to apply vinegar , scrub and then borax. Flush with warm water, dry it out and then epoxy. Go to the GB forum and you will find the complete explanation.
My only issue then is what do I do with the bonding strap. But, that depends if I do indeed maintain and upgrade the bonding system. This issue is still unresolved and are explained in full in the GB forum as well. Check it out.

Stay tuned for tomorrow's update. I'm continuing my quest into the engine room and forward to the bilges. We will prevail.

Bob
 
BB , I still have my eye on that Alaskan 49 . It could be the death of me but so could William . We have been woodworking, painting and varnishing on our last two boats for about 15 years now . I guess that's what we like to do, plus it's entertaining for everyone else at the dock .

Great, I hope you do buy it. I'll sail mine over and park next to you and watch the show. I love free entertainment. You buying the adult beverages?

Seriously, go for it. I haven't had this much fun since I restored a classic mustang. It's all about the quest, is it not? My wife thinks I have been in the drug box but I keep telling her this is my "retired normal" get over it.
Who else would sell everything they own, move into a RV, drive to Florida, buy a wood Grand Banks that is 48 years old and be having the time of their lives?
Tell me who would do that. Obviously I'm on drugs. Oh by the way I just had four parts of my tongue cut out on January the 11th. It's got to be the drugs, right?

All I need now is another 20 or so years and I can die a fulfilled guy. Lived the life I chose and had a hell of a time. Remember, it's not the beginning or the end that is important. It's the journey. Simple, live like you will die tomorrow and then you don't have to worry about it.:dance:

I really will come a help. From what I saw on that's boat it may indeed be a group project. We will have a blast. Besides I will need a northern summer home and Memphis is just about right for me. Not to hot or cold and lots of great rivers to cruise.:lol:

Keep me posted. And thanks for your input. All of you guys are responsible for my irrational behavior. If I had not joined this forum 8 months ago I would not be where I am now, or tomorrow. Which will be in the engine room of a classic boat having a good time.:rofl:

One last thought. Barring this boat sinking during the sea trial I will buy it. Rename it " Amazing Grace" and thank God for every day I have to work and play on her.

Bob
 
Marin, you are as usual absolutely correct. But.....

When I was small my Mom told everyone I was her little Salmon. Later my Dad said the same and at some point I learned it was about me always going against the grain. And that pretty much sums it up. I know it and always have. All the kids played marbles, I chased girls. Later, they chased girls, I volunteered and went to Vietnam. I got shot and they went to Canada.

My life has always been that way and not regrets. I could buy a glass boat but not a boat of this size or with this character. It's a project and I am going to be living right in the middle of, sanding, buffing, painting and immersing myself in all the boat things that I can. I worked 50+ years in the fast lane driving the interstates and watching everybody pass me by to get somewhere they probably did not want to be doing something they didn't want to do and not enjoying the journey.
One of Robin Williams last movies was about a guy who wanted to kill himself. He was determined to kill himself and life kept getting in the way. His kids didn't care, his wife didn't care. He was a failure in life and he could not even kill himself. THIS WAS A COMEDY. And when he finally did accomplish his goal, the last shot on the screen was his tombstone with the camera slowly zeroing in on the dates. First the date he was born and then to the right and the date of his death. Then the camera snaps back to the dash. Robin's voice in the background........Its not about the beginning and it's certainly about the end.....its all about the DASH. About 6 months later he really did kill himself. Why is it important I am not sure but it says more to me than just the words. What are we doing and why do we do it? Who knows, but it really is all about the dash. About swimming against the current, not accepting the norm, about living the dash.
I chased the girls and went to Vietnam, got shot and worked 50+ years, always going against the current, no regrets. Living the dash.
When my dad was older he opened up to me about his ww2 experience on the Franklin. He had a appointment to West Point but enlisted in the Navy is he could get into the fray. He volunteered to be a bomb disposal officer and told me some stories that would turn your hair white. He survived without a scratch. About a third of his fellow shipmates did not. Turns out he was a Salmon too. The last two years of his life were spent with my wife and I as his primary care givers. They were a bittersweet time as altzhimers gradually stole him and disabled his ability to do absolutely anything at all but they were the most enlightening 2 years I have ever had.
In 2005 I had cancer, I still have cancer and about every year or two the doc's cut here and there and I am slowly being parted out to the incinerator. Another legacy from Vietnam. Turns out agent orange was not really the thing to be raining down on all those guys running the rivers and eating the dirt. When life deals you lemons, sometime you get orange. It's all about the dash.
I'm still head into the current and I'm not really interested in the boat that is the boat others can latch onto, do the loop in a year, sell the boat a rush off to another interest and on and on and on. I'm determined to live the dash and immerse myself in the boat life until the camera pans to the right.
And if I die in the engine room just leave me there and take the boat out to sea and sink her. I will be right where I want to be, still living the dash.
:thumb:

By the way, I want the PT. what a ride that must have been. Two big 12 cylinder crosleys, manual transmission, lots of guns and TORPEDOS. OMG. We just had sling shots on the delta compaired to that. I was born to late.

Thanks for your gracious wisdom and don't forget to live the dash, run hard against the current. It's always worth the effort. Oh and if you like to sand wood come see me. I just acquired a whole bunch. :lol:
 
Last edited:
BinkleyPost,
You're post #35 is great stuff. On TF I often feel much like the salmon that you describe. The trick is knowing when NOT to be the salmon. Again great post!
 
Marin, you are as usual absolutely correct. But.....

When I was small my Mom told everyone I was her little Salmon. Later my Dad said the same and at some point I learned it was about me always going against the grain. And that pretty much sums it up. I know it and always have. All the kids played marbles, I chased girls. Later, they chased girls, I volunteered and went to Vietnam. I got shot and they went to Canada.

My life has always been that way and not regrets. I could buy a glass boat but not a boat of this size or with this character. It's a project and I am going to be living right in the middle of, sanding, buffing, painting and immersing myself in all the boat things that I can. I worked 50+ years in the fast lane driving the interstates and watching everybody pass me by to get somewhere they probably did not want to be doing something they didn't want to do and not enjoying the journey.
One of Robin Williams last movies was about a guy who wanted to kill himself. He was determined to kill himself and life kept getting in the way. His kids didn't care, his wife didn't care. He was a failure in life and he could not even kill himself. THIS WAS A COMEDY. And when he finally did accomplish his goal, the last shot on the screen was his tombstone with the camera slowly zeroing in on the dates. First the date he was born and then to the right and the date of his death. Then the camera snaps back to the dash. Robin's voice in the background........Its not about the beginning and it's certainly about the end.....its all about the DASH. About 6 months later he really did kill himself. Why is it important I am not sure but it says more to me than just the words. What are we doing and why do we do it? Who knows, but it really is all about the dash. About swimming against the current, not accepting the norm, about living the dash.
I chased the girls and went to Vietnam, got shot and worked 50+ years, always going against the current, no regrets. Living the dash.
When my dad was older he opened up to me about his ww2 experience on the Franklin. He had a appointment to West Point but enlisted in the Navy is he could get into the fray. He volunteered to be a bomb disposal officer and told me some stories that would turn your hair white. He survived without a scratch. About a third of his fellow shipmates did not. Turns out he was a Salmon too. The last two years of his life were spent with my wife and I as his primary care givers. They were a bittersweet time as altzhimers gradually stole him and disabled his ability to do absolutely anything at all but they were the most enlightening 2 years I have ever had.
In 2005 I had cancer, I still have cancer and about every year or two the doc's cut here and there and I am slowly being parted out to the incinerator. Another legacy from Vietnam. Turns out agent orange was not really the thing to be raining down on all those guys running the rivers and eating the dirt. When life deals you lemons, sometime you get orange. It's all about the dash.
I'm still head into the current and I'm not really interested in the boat that is the boat others can latch onto, do the loop in a year, sell the boat a rush off to another interest and on and on and on. I'm determined to live the dash and immerse myself in the boat life until the camera pans to the right.
And if I die in the engine room just leave me there and take the boat out to sea and sink her. I will be right where I want to be, still living the dash.
:thumb:

By the way, I want the PT. what a ride that must have been. Two big 12 cylinder crosleys, manual transmission, lots of guns and TORPEDOS. OMG. We just had sling shots on the delta compaired to that. I was born to late.

Thanks for your gracious wisdom and don't forget to live the dash, run hard against the current. It's always worth the effort. Oh and if you like to sand wood come see me. I just acquired a whole bunch. :lol:

Excellent!! Simply the best post I've ever read on a boating forum. Yes... DASH! DDASH! DDDASH!!! And, enjoy every punctuation mark that ever happens or becomes encountered along The Dashing-Way!
 
<snip>
I'm still head into the current and I'm not really interested in the boat that is the boat others can latch onto, do the loop in a year, sell the boat a rush off to another interest and on and on and on. I'm determined to live the dash and immerse myself in the boat life until the camera pans to the right.
And if I die in the engine room just leave me there and take the boat out to sea and sink her. I will be right where I want to be, still living the dash.
</snip>

Good on ya mate!
 
Bonding of underwater metals was invented because of wood boats. Much as I like and admire sdowney, he is completely wrong in his advice to isolate. Delignification is caused by dc electricity travelling thru the wood, like a semi conductor. It becomes visible around what or whichever metal component it is going thru. Angle hair is the result. If left unresolved the wood around the thru hull will eventually become soft enough to implode, sinking the boat. The metal can be isolated by removing it, completely sealing the wood with urethane or epoxy and reinstalling the fitting using polyurethane adhesive. Bonding correctly would be better. And, I am not a proponent of bonding in fiberglass boats. Only wood.

It is not just my idea to unbond underwater metals on wooden boats. I have read that advice from other wood boat owners.
Bonding vs No Bonding [Archive] - The WoodenBoat Forum

I did have that delignification around the raw water engine thru hulls when I first got the boat. Wood looked somewhat cheesy. I cleaned out all the soft wood and saturated epoxied the area. Glued in a plug of wood using PL and sawdust and a screwed on backing plate of wood, then overcoated with permaflex. In 2014, I redid the repair, removed the backing plate entirely and sealed it inside and out, no permaflex used and no one would ever know it had been there.

I moved the thru hulls to an area I could reach and they are now nice Apollo bronze SS lever handle valves. I have great thread contact at least 4 turns on is all you need and I have 5, plus I sealed the threads with permatex #2. ( I actually improved the thread contact using a steel pipe fitting and valve grinding compound on the bronze thru hull, so it helped taper the thru hull threads.)

The original location was in an impossible to reach location, if there was ever a problem with the oem gate valves leaking...

None of the other numerous thru hulls showed any wood issues.

Adding that those engine thru hull are OEM. Originally had gate valves on top. I switched to Apollo valves. And I never understood people talking up the straight versus taper thread argument, and claiming only a turn or two possible when mine were always so well fitted even before my improvement. Could it be that the OEM had those threads modded already a little, I do not know. They are in great shape, thick pipe seems like about 5/16 wall. thread pitch is identical, the difference is a thru hull is straight, the other valves are tapered. My pipe size is 1.25. Bottom are scoops.
 
Last edited:
Those are the ones. I will follow you on the GB Forum, too many woody haters on here.

Possibly some of us have experience on both sides of the fence. The question as started by Binkley was basically where can he find a guy to rubber stamp the wooden vessel he likes. Not necessarily the way I chose to buy wooden vessels in the old days but seems to be OK with Binkley.

I have been on the older design GB woodies, one of which is a master piece project boat. I know the effort, cost and yard professional help that this gem required. Staggering for many but not the owner.

I've also been on a similar size and design DeFever woodie that was already nicely redone and properly maintained. About one half the cost to purchase this one vs redo the GB,

My point, so many variables for logical TF discussion and discourse. Binkley will figure it out once he puts a good estimate together for updating and rebuilding and then doubles it.
 
My life has always been that way and not regrets. I could buy a glass boat but not a boat of this size or with this character. It's a project and I am going to be living right in the middle of, sanding, buffing, painting and immersing myself in all the boat things that I can.

For people who know what they're getting into with a wood boat and have the skills, knowledge and tools to keep it in good condition--- or can afford to pay other people to do it for them--- I think it's admirable that they are willing to to do this. Otherwise all these great boats would gradually be lost to us.

By the way, I want the PT. what a ride that must have been. Two big 12 cylinder crosleys, manual transmission, lots of guns and TORPEDOS. OMG. We just had sling shots on the delta compaired to that. I was born to late.
Slight correction. PTs were powered by three, 1,200 hp (later 1,500 hp) Packard 4M-2500 V-12 engines, not two Crosleys.

In the Elco PTs, the center engine was direct drive and was mounted conventionally in the engine room. The two wing engines were mounted backwards and drove their props through V-drives. This allowed Elco to fit three very large engines into a relatively small space. (The cruiser we have in Europe has the same engine arrangement for the same reason)

The throttles on the PTs were operated by the skipper at the helm but the transmissions were operated by a motormac riding in a tractor seat facing forward on the end of the inboard rocker box of the starboard wing engine. (photo)

A few years ago my wife and I were invited to ride on the only restored PT powered by its original-type engines. It's a Higgins boat so it's not the right type of PT for me; the book I'm writing takes place on an Elco. But my number one rule in writing is write what you know and I wanted to hear, feel and smell these engines in full operation in person so I could write about them accurately. Quite an experience.

The three Packards in a Higgins are mounted conventionally with direct drive. This makes for a large and easy-to-get-around-in engine room but it forces the crew areas to be much smaller and less user-friendly than on an Elco. This was a major factor in the Elco being more popular with its crews than the Higgins.
 

Attachments

  • Elco.jpg
    Elco.jpg
    44.4 KB · Views: 215
  • 4M-2500.jpg
    4M-2500.jpg
    13.1 KB · Views: 81
Last edited:
My only issue then is what do I do with the bonding strap. But, that depends if I do indeed maintain and upgrade the bonding system. This issue is still unresolved and are explained in full in the GB forum as well. Check it out.
Bob[/QUOTE]




Possibly the copper strap is worsening the hair development. If the strap is removeable then maybe a thin plastic sheet secured with the strap screw would insulate and reduce hair development. At least it would reduce any interaction between the strap and the salty wood.

I often use those plastic cutting sheets from the kitchen counter, usually scoff the used ones. They are easily cut and are tough.
 
My only issue then is what do I do with the bonding strap. But, that depends if I do indeed maintain and upgrade the bonding system. This issue is still unresolved and are explained in full in the GB forum as well. Check it out.
Bob




Possibly the copper strap is worsening the hair development. If the strap is removeable then maybe a thin plastic sheet secured with the strap screw would insulate and reduce hair development. At least it would reduce any interaction between the strap and the salty wood.

I often use those plastic cutting sheets from the kitchen counter, usually scoff the used ones. They are easily cut and are tough.[/QUOTE]

I know the product and it is tough. If keep the bonding I will remove it altogether and replace with ABCY spec'd insulated conductor.The jury is still out on this issue. I have three surveys scheduled for next week and will follow the recommendations suggested. The surveyor hired actually owned a sister ship. So I will be picking his brain on this issue and a whole lot more I suspect.
Seems like all the pieces are falling into place quite nicely.
Two big days coming up, Tuesday is the in boat inspections and Wednesday sea trial and hull out. Fingers crossed but confident I found the big problems above the water line. Short of a bunch of bad planks she will get her new "Moniker" and some TLC in the yard.
 
For people who know what they're getting into with a wood boat and have the skills, knowledge and tools to keep it in good condition--- or can afford to pay other people to do it for them--- I think it's admirable that they are willing to to do this. Otherwise all these great boats would gradually be lost to us.

Slight correction. PTs were powered by three, 1,200 hp (later 1,500 hp) Packard 4M-2500 V-12 engines, not two Crosleys.

In the Elco PTs, the center engine was direct drive and was mounted conventionally in the engine room. The two wing engines were mounted backwards and drove their props through V-drives. This allowed Elco to fit three very large engines into a relatively small space. (The cruiser we have in Europe has the same engine arrangement for the same reason)

The throttles on the PTs were operated by the skipper at the helm but the transmissions were operated by a motormac riding in a tractor seat facing forward on the end of the inboard rocker box of the starboard wing engine. (photo)

A few years ago my wife and I were invited to ride on the only restored PT powered by its original-type engines. It's a Higgins boat so it's not the right type of PT for me; the book I'm writing takes place on an Elco. But my number one rule in writing is write what you know and I wanted to hear, feel and smell these engines in full operation in person so I could write about them accurately. Quite an experience.

The three Packards in a Higgins are mounted conventionally with direct drive. This makes for a large and easy-to-get-around-in engine room but it forces the crew areas to be much smaller and less user-friendly than on an Elco. This was a major factor in the Elco being more popular with its crews than the Higgins.

I am never disappointed by a "Marin" post.
And I apologize for the error, I knew they were packards but being from Cincinnati I had to get a plug in for him.
And one more small point.
The statement you made in a earlier post about your knowledge of boats " could fit on the head of a pin ". I believe that the head of that pin is about the size of one of those "Crosleys"

Oh, and that guy in the picture - WOW - what a ride that would be.
 
Last edited:
Wonder how many guys had hearing loss because of those bad boys.

A lot. I've interviewed hundreds of PT vets as research for my current project and many of the ex-motormacs were wearing hearing aids which they all attributed to the hours they spent in the engine rooms of these boats. They had a lot of stories about how their messed-up hearing immediately after a mission caused them to get into some pretty humorous situations on shore. Eventually the noise took a permanent toll.
 
Hey Bob looks like everything is moving in the right direction . On replacing the planks what lumber will you use? I think 5/4 mahogany was used in the original build.I would think it needs to be air dried not kiln dried .
Love the new avatar:thumb::thumb:
 
A lot. I've interviewed hundreds of PT vets as research for my current project and many of the ex-motormacs were wearing hearing aids which they all attributed to the hours they spent in the engine rooms of these boats. They had a lot of stories about how their messed-up hearing immediately after a mission caused them to get into some pretty humorous situations on shore. Eventually the noise took a permanent toll.

Can I preorder the book? Please?
 
Hey Bob looks like everything is moving in the right direction . On replacing the planks what lumber will you use? I think 5/4 mahogany was used in the original build.I would think it needs to be air dried not kiln dried .
Love the new avatar:thumb::thumb:

You are sounding a bitt more chipper today, good.
As close to original equipment as possible, if possible. You are the "wood" expert so I know who my go to guy will be. Think I can get a few 12 footers on top of my VW and drive back down here?:dance:
My wife now thinks she has to ride on top do the starboard engine:lol:
 
The statement you made in a earlier post about your knowledge of boats " could fit on the head of a pin ". I believe that the head of that pin is about the size of one of those "Crosleys"

Nice of you to say but the reality is that even though we've been doing this kind of boating for a bit over seventeen years now my boating knowledge doesn't amount to much. I know about things on our boat because we've had to deal with them but when it comes to engines, electrical, etc. systems I don't have much to offer unless I've learned something specific from the folks on the GB forum or from the people in our diesel shop, electrical shop, a shipwright we've hired in the past, the yard we use, and so on.

We recently had a mechanical issue on our boat that stumped not just me but the yard for some three months while we chased down one thing after another. And we no sooner got that dealt with than a fuel issue cropped up which, while it's been dealt with, still has all of us including the fuel expert who worked on the boat this week, completely baffled as to the cause.

If I have anything going for me it's an ability to remember what I've been told, whether it's one of our engineers explaining one way an elevator trim tab can fail and how to prevent it or the best way to repair deck seams on our boat.

Oh, and that guy in the picture - WOW - what a ride that would be.
Actually it wasn't that bad according to the Elco motormacs I've talked to. The engines were fairly far aft in that boat so the ride was surprisingly smooth.

Interestingly, according to many of the vets I've talked to, one of the most terrifying thing about crewing on an Elco PT was going to the bathroom. Not peeing--- they just went over the side while hanging onto something, usually a torpedo or torpedo tube.

But taking a dump was truly scary because of the jury-rigged toilet setup many of the crews put together on their boats. The reason for this was at speed on the open ocean the crew's head, which was in the fore-peak of the boat, was virtually unusable the motion was so violent. I was told stories about guys who had both legs and both arms broken by being tossed around in that compartment when the boat accelerated to speed after they went in there.

Some crews had considerate officers who would let crew members use the head in the officers' quarters which was just a few feet forward of the middle of the boat and so had a smoother ride. But some officers held to the "officers' quarters are off-limits to enlisteds" protocol. Hence the jury-rigged affair at the stern of the boat which could be so terrifying to use that most guys did everything they could to hold it in until the boat was going slow.
 
Last edited:
You are sounding a bitt more chipper today, good.
As close to original equipment as possible, if possible. You are the "wood" expert so I know who my go to guy will be. Think I can get a few 12 footers on top of my VW and drive back down here?:dance:
My wife now thinks she has to ride on top do the starboard engine:lol:
The only mahogany we have on the yard is kiln dried African mahogany, not a good choice. The grain is not straight enough and it can get kinda heavy. I used it on the interior on William. I think air dried Phillipine mahagony would be best. It's out there and I'm sure there is some around down there . You may need to check with a lumber importer around New Orleans .
 
Possibly some of us have experience on both sides of the fence. The question as started by Binkley was basically where can he find a guy to rubber stamp the wooden vessel he likes. Not necessarily the way I chose to buy wooden vessels in the old days but seems to be OK with Binkley.

I have been on the older design GB woodies, one of which is a master piece project boat. I know the effort, cost and yard professional help that this gem required. Staggering for many but not the owner.

I've also been on a similar size and design DeFever woodie that was already nicely redone and properly maintained. About one half the cost to purchase this one vs redo the GB,

My point, so many variables for logical TF discussion and discourse. Binkley will figure it out once he puts a good estimate together for updating and rebuilding and then doubles it.

Actually, my intent was to find a qualified person to either confirm or deny my suspicions with regard to the status of this particular boat. If I wanted a rubber stamp I could get that at Staples.
I am investing in my suspicion that this boat is unlike the other 25 or so I have looked at to date. Investing a few grand in multiple surveyors, hull out and sea trial over a two day period is not a desire for someone to stamp "OK" on the bow.
So, no I can walk away but I truly hope it does not come to that. I have spent the better part of a week crawling around the bilges, climbing over the top of the pilot house and looking for rot in the lazerette. Perhaps the 3 grand I'm spending on the experts will prove me wrong, and then I will walk, and continue the quest. Sorry for the enthusiasm.
Could it be cloudy in Arizona:nonono:?
 
The only mahogany we have on the yard is kiln dried African mahogany, not a good choice. The grain is not straight enough and it can get kinda heavy. I used it on the interior on William. I think air dried Phillipine mahagony would be best. It's out there and I'm sure there is some around down there . You may need to check with a lumber importer around New Orleans .
The yard that is a old one here in Tampa, The were known a NOA Marine but are now a part of the Endevor group. The folks there are knowledgeable in the wood boat arena and I'm sure they have sources for what we will need.
But I still want to come to Memphis and see William.
 
Nice of you to say but the reality is that even though we've been doing this kind of boating for a bit over seventeen years now my boating knowledge doesn't amount to much. I know about things on our boat because we've had to deal with them but when it comes to engines, electrical, etc. systems I don't have much to offer unless I've learned something specific from the folks on the GB forum or from the people in our diesel shop, electrical shop, a shipwright we've hired in the past, the yard we use, and so on.

We recently had a mechanical issue on our boat that stumped not just me but the yard for some three months while we chased down one thing after another. And we no sooner got that dealt with than a fuel issue cropped up which, while it's been dealt with, still has all of us including the fuel expert who worked on the boat this week, completely baffled as to the cause.

If I have anything going for me it's an ability to remember what I've been told, whether it's one of our engineers explaining one way an elevator trim tab can fail and how to prevent it or the best way to repair deck seams on our boat.

Actually it wasn't that bad according to the Elco motormacs I've talked to. The engines were fairly far aft in that boat so the ride was surprisingly smooth.

Interestingly, according to many of the vets I've talked to, one of the most terrifying thing about crewing on an Elco PT was going to the bathroom. Not peeing--- they just went over the side while hanging onto something, usually a torpedo or torpedo tube.

But taking a dump was truly scary because of the jury-rigged toilet setup many of the crews put together on their boats. The reason for this was at speed on the open ocean the crew's head, which was in the fore-peak of the boat, was virtually unusable the motion was so violent. I was told stories about guys who had both legs and both arms broken by being tossed around in that compartment when the boat accelerated to speed after they went in there.

Some crews had considerate officers who would let crew members use the head in the officers' quarters which was just a few feet forward of the middle of the boat and so had a smoother ride. But some officers held to the "officers' quarters are off-limits to enlisteds" protocol. Hence the jury-rigged affair at the stern of the boat which could be so terrifying to use that most guys did everything they could to hold it in until the boat was going slow.

I gotta have a copy of this book. It's gotta be fantastic.
 
The yard that is a old one here in Tampa, The were known a NOA Marine but are now a part of the Endevor group. The folks there are knowledgeable in the wood boat arena and I'm sure they have sources for what we will need.
But I still want to come to Memphis and see William.


BB , Joy and I are both from Memphis but now we live in Paris, Tn and William is 15 minutes away on the TN River mm 66.1 at Paris Landing State Park .
 
I gotta have a copy of this book. It's gotta be fantastic.

Well, don't hold your breath. I've been working on it for some 7 or 8 years now with a big gap to write a book I was hired to write which was finally published last year.

And Boeing has this silly notion that I should show up and do something for the paycheck they're giving me. That's' why from start to finish the creation of my Kenmore Air Harbor book took ten years although there was a write-for-hire book in the middle of that project, too.

However I'm closing in on calling it a day with career #2 and beginning career #3 so I'm hoping I'll be able to dive back in and finish the PT book. People who've read what I've written so far seem to really like it which is encouraging.

Of course writing a book is just half the battle, and perhaps the easier half at that. Getting it published and out there is a whole different deal.:)

The only sure bet is it won't see the light of day unless I finish it so the immediate task is pretty obvious.:)
 
Last edited:
Very interesting drift, but back to the OP, the "white fuzz" on the wood is usually delignification. Its not caused by localized interaction with moisture, its caused by the dc current that is travelling thru the wood "semiconductor" and manifests itself at the wood metal interface, hence the reason for bonding, to circumvent the semicondutor.
 
So, is " white fuzz " the same as hair? We may be talking about two different things. And some of the hair is no where close to the bonding straps.

Bob
 
Back
Top Bottom