Suggested routes for 14 month trip

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BandB- we will likely use marinas most everywhere we go but eat most of our meals onboard the boat. We will use agents to get in and out of the countries visited, and we will likely choose to do all great activities along the way unless they are exhorbitantly expensive.

The boat we are planning to use will be a 7-10 year old Nordhavn 55'. One of the reason for selecting a Nordhavn is more predictable resale (but I know I will lose money- just the broker commission alone will be sizable).

I expect to lose money on the boat, but I do not know what to expect with regards to maintenance.

I am looking for loose guidelines- I know the range will be large. There's fuel, insurance, marina fees, food, entertainment, customs/ entry fees, canal transit costs, maintenance, wifi, etc. etc. etc.

Thanks for all of your input.
 
bigpoppop said:
BandB- we will likely use marinas most everywhere we go but eat most of our meals onboard the boat. We will use agents to get in and out of the countries visited, and we will likely choose to do all great activities along the way unless they are exhorbitantly expensive.

The boat we are planning to use will be a 7-10 year old Nordhavn 55'. One of the reason for selecting a Nordhavn is more predictable resale (but I know I will lose money- just the broker commission alone will be sizable).

I expect to lose money on the boat, but I do not know what to expect with regards to maintenance.

I am looking for loose guidelines- I know the range will be large. There's fuel, insurance, marina fees, food, entertainment, customs/ entry fees, canal transit costs, maintenance, wifi, etc. etc. etc.

Thanks for all of your input.
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Ok, so here's a stab in the dark to give you a range.

Loss on boat $200k.

Fuel $20k
Insurance $20k That is assuming you have the experience to get insurance.
Marina Fees $60k
Food $17k
Entertainment $15k
Customs/Entry/Canal $5k
Don't know what kind of satellite system if any you'll use but maintaining communications could easily be $20k
Maintenance on boat-Routine $14k
Maintenance unexpected large expense $10k

So, ballpark of $150-200k plus the $200k loss on boat. Perhaps you'll come in for less but I'd make sure I had that much available.
 
BandB said:
Ok, so here's a stab in the dark to give you a range.

Loss on boat $200k.

Fuel $20k
Insurance $20k That is assuming you have the experience to get insurance.
Marina Fees $60k
Food $17k
Entertainment $15k
Customs/Entry/Canal $5k
Don't know what kind of satellite system if any you'll use but maintaining communications could easily be $20k
Maintenance on boat-Routine $14k
Maintenance unexpected large expense $10k

So, ballpark of $150-200k plus the $200k loss on boat. Perhaps you'll come in for less but I'd make sure I had that much available.
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Is your real name Mr. and Mrs. Dreambuster???
 
Donsan said:
Is your real name Mr. and Mrs. Dreambuster???
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No, but I'm taking into consideration the boat he's talking about. Two available on the West Coast, one for $1.025 million and one for $1.295 million. I'm taking into consideration the cost of the various marinas having been that entire route and experienced them. Anchoring would save lot's of money but that's not his plan.

Which of my numbers would you argue with and what numbers would you give him? And have you been the route he's talking about? My numbers added to $181k so I said $150-200k. So reduce my numbers by 20% and you're still at $145k.

I'm also very familiar with what Nordhavn owners find themselves spending in the first year. The $200k loss on the boat may well be high but sales commission will be $100k and you must assume some depreciation so maybe $150k.

This isn't the great loop on a 36' trawler that he's talking about. Anyone else have numbers, feel free to offer them. I'm also assuming in buying a $1+ million boat that he can afford substantial costs and has planned for an expensive 14 month trip.
 
BandB said:
No, but I'm taking into consideration the boat he's talking about. Two available on the West Coast, one for $1.025 million and one for $1.295 million. I'm taking into consideration the cost of the various marinas having been that entire route and experienced them. Anchoring would save lot's of money but that's not his plan.

Which of my numbers would you argue with and what numbers would you give him? And have you been the route he's talking about? My numbers added to $181k so I said $150-200k. So reduce my numbers by 20% and you're still at $145k.

I'm also very familiar with what Nordhavn owners find themselves spending in the first year. The $200k loss on the boat may well be high but sales commission will be $100k and you must assume some depreciation so maybe $150k.

This isn't the great loop on a 36' trawler that he's talking about. Anyone else have numbers, feel free to offer them. I'm also assuming in buying a $1+ million boat that he can afford substantial costs and has planned for an expensive 14 month trip.
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I was joking. I would have estimated $10,000/month without considering the depreciation and without going into the details you did. Anyway you cut the muster, those are some big bucks for a little more than 12 months but some of those expenses would be there just living in their land based home.
 
The way I look at expenses are...

A. Direct boat expenses

B. People expenses

Its hard to predict maintenance expenses for a cruise since it all depends where in the lifecycle you are on the various boats systems.

Fuel is in direct proportion to how far you go. Figure 1 mpg on a boat that size and you'll be over budgeted but in the ballpark.

Marina expenses are going to be a big one. Budgeting $1.50 per foot per day will be probably over budgeted but in the ballpark.

People expenses in my opinion you shouldn't even have to budget for or plan on. The reason is that you were alive, eating, going out, etc... Before you go cruising so nothing in my opinion would really change much except ticket prices to attractions along the way, and the occasional rental car.
 
Donsan said:
I was joking. I would have estimated $10,000/month without considering the depreciation and without going into the details you did. Anyway you cut the muster, those are some big bucks for a little more than 12 months but some of those expenses would be there just living in their land based home.
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14 months...lol

Yes your $10k per month would have been close to my numbers, $140k for the trip.
 
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ksanders said:
The way I look at expenses are...

A. Direct boat expenses

B. People expenses

Its hard to predict maintenance expenses for a cruise since it all depends where in the lifecycle you are on the various boats systems.

Fuel is in direct proportion to how far you go. Figure 1 mpg on a boat that size and you'll be over budgeted but in the ballpark.

Marina expenses are going to be a big one. Budgeting $1.50 per foot per day will be probably over budgeted but in the ballpark.

People expenses in my opinion you shouldn't even have to budget for or plan on. The reason is that you were alive, eating, going out, etc... Before you go cruising so nothing in my opinion would really change much except ticket prices to attractions along the way, and the occasional rental car.
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When cruising as a lifestyle, perhaps the people expenses don't change much, but when doing it as a long vacation, you spend money on many things you wouldn't at home.

My numbers on fuel are below 1 mpg but do take prices outside the US into consideration.

I budgeted closer to $2.60 per foot. As low as $2 might be ok, but he's going to many areas where dockage is expensive as is electricity and water (although hope he has a watermaker instead of buying water). It will not be uncommon to pay $3.00-4.00 per foot ($165-220 per night) for docking and another $40 or $50 for electric. Miami Beach Marina would be $5 per foot (up to $8 for prime location) base fee plus utilities which I believe are somewhere in the range of 40-50 cents per foot.
 
In my little 38 with two people, fuel, food, dockage, restaurants, ice, beer, wine, entertainment.. comes out to around $3k/month. So for this larger boat with more folks, $10k/mo sounds in the ballpark.

Lots of latitude in those numbers. Fuel is straightforward: You travel, you pay. All else can scale vastly up and down. Beans and rice and fresh fish or restaurant meals. Anchoring overnight or high end marina. Depends on tastes and tolerance for spending.
 
"we will likely use marinas most everywhere we go"

Depends , $1.00 per ft per night to perhaps $10.00 a foot in superyacht places.

Many folks avoid the dirt and hassles of docksidev and anchor out and get a slip space for the tender.

Mostly the choice depends on on board power requirements and privacy desires.

depending on your skill set , hiring a captain and cook might make sense.
 
I'm just thinking about his route here but given the speed of an N55 he is probably looking at quite a few overnights and forced anchor outs between marinas so the dockage might end up less. Then again a few weeks in the high rent district in the Caribbean could make up the difference. Take the kids to Atlantis for a few days at 6.00+ a foot.
 
In terms of the boat for a "Great U" type of trip, how do you reconcile the desirability of a deep draft boat like the N55 on the ocean with the shallow areas of the East Coast ICW and the Caribbean? What is the ideal craft for the trips proposed above? It seems like in those 14 months you will encounter many different types of seas and depths.
 
tkrfxrs said:
In terms of the boat for a "Great U" type of trip, how do you reconcile the desirability of a deep draft boat like the N55 on the ocean with the shallow areas of the East Coast ICW and the Caribbean? What is the ideal craft for the trips proposed above? It seems like in those 14 months you will encounter many different types of seas and depths.
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You're right about a lot of different situations but with certain limits, it's all manageable. For instance, ICW. With a 55 Nordhavn, you'll do most of your traveling outside and just go inside at each stop. You won't encounter the worst of the shoaling and shallow areas. Same with the Bahamas. There are plenty of boats there with 6'6" drafts. They just anchor and tender to the shallow areas, find the marinas that have depth. We just came through there a week or so ago with a 6'6" draft. The Nordhavn 47 has a 5'11" draft and the Bahamas are Oliver's home away from home. You go to Harbour Island to dock at Romora Bay, you're going to get a local to pilot you in. There are obviously trade-offs between seaworthiness and shallow draft, but there's plenty of the east coast you can enjoy in a Nordhavn 55. Now if you were a 120' steel Brazilian boat with an 11' draft I'd warn you that even the area around Bahia Mar can get close at low tide.

And you asked ideal boat. Well, personally for this trip, I'd rank the seaworthiness as a huge plus and the draft as only a minor minus. I'm not even a Nordhavn fan but find it a good choice for this trip. We've cruised the east coast with shallower draft but also a good bit with the same draft as the 55. Depending on where he's going, he will keep his eye on tides, especially in the areas there is a huge tide swing.
 
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I have only cruised the PNW but in my opinion, at least in these waters, you will miss much or most of the best parts of the area marina hopping. Being comfortable on the hook would certainly help the budget.

Also, I can say with some authority from someone who was able to cost justify buying a boat in the Bay Area and having it skippered up last year, boats are generally more expensive in the PNW than they are in California. And my web surfing eye tells me they can be more expensive in California than on the East Coast. So reversing the route may knock the depreciation bill down.
 
If he's looking for a Nordhavn 55, there really isn't a choice of where on the coast to buy it. There are none in the PNW so obviously will have to be run up.
 
Right - that is what I meant. buy one of many in Florida and start your trip there. Finish and sell in the PNW as the only one on the market.
 
Thanks everyone for the feedback- we are, in fact, no looking at non-Nordhavn boats and also some Nordhavns on the east coast. Selling the boat in the PNW does seem like a good idea.

One of the things we like about Nordhavns is their ability to hold their value. We only plan to have the boat for 18 months so we need a boat that we can (somewhat) predictably get out of.

What alternatives to Nordhavn would you all recommend?
 
How about a Krogen?

bigpoppop said:
Thanks everyone for the feedback- we are, in fact, no looking at non-Nordhavn boats and also some Nordhavns on the east coast. Selling the boat in the PNW does seem like a good idea.

One of the things we like about Nordhavns is their ability to hold their value. We only plan to have the boat for 18 months so we need a boat that we can (somewhat) predictably get out of.

What alternatives to Nordhavn would you all recommend?
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I can't speak to the resale value but a Krogen is also another great boat in the same class as Nordhavn. The 55 expedition seems like a fine vessel.

I'm biased of course!

Richard
Stillwater
KK54 #5
 
My favorites in that size range for the type cruising you have in mind would be:

Fleming
Hatteras
KK

However, there are many brands that could do it well.
 
bigpoppop;409411 One of the things we like about Nordhavns is their ability to hold their value. We only plan to have the boat for 18 months so we need a boat that we can (somewhat) predictably get out of. What alternatives to Nordhavn would you all recommend?[/QUOTE said:
Might I suggest a KK or a Selene? We looked for a Nordy for some time, just never found the right one up here in the PNW. We ended up with the Selene as many to choose from. The resale value is in direct proportion to demand at any particular location. We recently viewed a KK 54/55 that arrived here in Portland and it is a very nice boat. And a few docks away is a Selene 55 that is also a very nice boat,it just so happens to be on the market and have been told it will go for a couple 100K less than a comparable Nordy in size.

Best of luck on your search, PM me if you don't have a buyers broker, I can recommend a very good one.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks everyone.


I need to go and check out a few of these other boats- I have looked at a Selene but have not looked at Fleming or KK.


One thing that the Nordhavns have working in their favor is GREAT headroom- I am 6'8" tall and have a hard time standing up in many of these boats. Anyone know how the others stack up with headroom?
 
bigpoppop said:
Thanks everyone.


I need to go and check out a few of these other boats- I have looked at a Selene but have not looked at Fleming or KK.


One thing that the Nordhavns have working in their favor is GREAT headroom- I am 6'8" tall and have a hard time standing up in many of these boats. Anyone know how the others stack up with headroom?
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Fleming targets 6'6" and 6'6 1/2" as their minimum headroom, which is problematic. I don't know headroom by area. That's also the minimum for Nordhavn although some have more. Selene's target was 6'6" too. I think you'll find some of all brand that work and some that won't. That's what I've seen and I'm a couple of inches shorter than you, 6'4 1/2" barefoot so an inch or so more with shoes.
 
There's a 56' Realship for sale in Seattle right now that has made that trip. Has been meticulously maintained. You can find it on Yacht World. "Steele". It might be worth checking out.
 
BandB said:
14 months...lol

Yes your $10k per month would have been close to my numbers, $140k for the trip.
Click to expand...

My running costs this past summer were $133/day or little less than $4/nm

I'm cheap and was cruising in an inexpensive area. Avg Marina cost was $27. I anchored out 25% of the time.

Now, with a bigger boat, US marina prices, more fuel use, more marina use, I would multiply those numbers by 2.5 to 3.

= $10k to $12k per month

Good job B & B
 
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