Midnight Re-boarding, can you? Alone

I anchored at the stern and had three people in the boat with me. Decided to go over the side and scrape some barnacles.
I thought such a low current would be ok. However the current was too strong, I was being dragged under the boat. I could barely hang on to the swim platform. I could not get back into the boat, so we put out the ladder and they helped me back in. Our swim platform is 6 inches above the water, Without deploying the ladder, it would be very hard to get back in the boat. I had gone over and scraped before in another spot where no current exists. My son in law is able to get back up on the swim platform without the ladder.
It was a surprise to me how quickly a seemingly easy job turned into something definitely dangerous.

sdowney717 said:

I anchored at the stern and had three people in the boat with me. Decided to go over the side and scrape some barnacles.
I thought such a low current would be ok. However the current was too strong, I was being dragged under the boat. I could barely hang on to the swim platform. I could not get back into the boat, so we put out the ladder and they helped me back in. Our swim platform is 6 inches above the water, Without deploying the ladder, it would be very hard to get back in the boat. I had gone over and scraped before in another spot where no current exists. My son in law is able to get back up on the swim platform without the ladder.
It was a surprise to me how quickly a seemingly easy job turned into something definitely dangerous.

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Safety is habit and discipline. Your situation, which I'm sure you've learned from, brings one of our rules into play. No one goes into the water without the ladder being down and in place. They can be limber 18 year old's or old men, the ladder is just the right way to get back in.

Art said:

And, no body pees while swimming in open water either!

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Ah, yes, in that situation, the pee is silent, as in psea bathing...

If our hinged ladder which is fixed to the swim platform is in the up position I`m fairly sure I could reach it from the water to pull it down into the water. I appreciate adverse conditions might interfere with grabbing it, but I don`t intentionally operate the boat with it in the water.
It has no retainer, and does not need one. I see a problem if the ladder is lashed in place like Art`s, someone in the water cannot swing it down without getting onto the platform to unlash it.
Seems to me it is safer if not lashed, though there are probably other ways more easily overcome, to ensure it stays upright, eg an open end plastic clip.

BruceK said:

If our hinged ladder which is fixed to the swim platform is in the up position I`m fairly sure I could reach it from the water to pull it down into the water. I appreciate adverse conditions might interfere with grabbing it, but I don`t intentionally operate the boat with it in the water.
It has no retainer, and does not need one. I see a problem if the ladder is lashed in place like Art`s, someone in the water cannot swing it down without getting onto the platform to unlash it.
Seems to me it is safer if not lashed, though there are probably other ways more easily overcome, to ensure it stays upright, eg an open end plastic clip.

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Bruce - That photo was taken with ladder left secured to railing under our covered berth just before leaving for a few weeks. I place the 6' swim/survival ladder firmly lashed by the knotted "pull U-self-up line" only when berthed and we leave for extended periods; or for close maneuvers around gas docks, etc. Otherwise a slight, small bungee cord holds ladder lightly in place; with "pull line" left dangling over transom for easy reach from water. Easily breakable tiny bungee cord hooks over ladder step that crosses word "The" in boat name. Enlarge photo to see the eye on transom that is in middle of "h" in "The". Bungee is so slight that with a tug on ladder it breaks or its hooks straighten and ladder comes right down. I've tested this from the water. If you can tug on ladder... you then have 6' of firm, wide, and broad steps with a knotted pull line that enables you to quickly get back aboard. Also, we often leave ladder in down position 24/7 when anchored. Fresh SF Delta water we frequent is warm enough for swimming from May into October; with mid summer months warm enough for hours swim at a time. I do all our bottom cleaning (which is not much necessary here), anode work, and general uw apparatus inspections/shining myself. IMO, part of the fun of owning a boat and staying in touch with its full range of needs is to often see (and feel) her "bottom" first hand. Our Tolly has great booty!! LOL

I`m fairly sure I could reach it from the water to pull it down into the water.

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Why are you only "fairly sure"?

I always suggest doing drills and trials, with plenty of knowledgeable company, when you're tired. Accidental overboards are usually under some duress, and get moreso as the incident unfolds. I've seen people trip and fall off the dock and that turn into an very uncomfortable situation.

sdowney brings up an important point: even seemingly modest current amplifies things greatly; going into the water with any kind of current should require a PFD, and a throwable with a whole lot of line attached ready to deploy.

The PFD adds a whole new level to the game in a current. Alot of folk will not be able to pull a swimmer that's wearing a pfd against even a small current

Much like trying to pull a sea anchor.

YMMV

Tought to wear a PFD when scraping the bottom of the boat....assuming sdowney717 was talking scraping barnacles far enough underwater.


Maybe FSTbottoms can shed some light on the best way to do it.


Me...just anchor normally and string a few lines from the bow aft on both sides. Pull yourself to the bow and work aft. The cloud/junk flows backwards and you are starting with the easier area first to build confidence.


If you think you would tire too much from bow to stern...maybe a hooka or tank is necessary.

OFB said:

The PFD adds a whole new level to the game in a current. Alot of folk will not be able to pull a swimmer that's wearing a pfd against even a small current

Much like trying to pull a sea anchor.

YMMV

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While not easy...in currents up to 3 knots (about the fastest I have seen from NJ to FL) it is certainly not beyond the capability of most adults without handicaps or injuries. Maybe not fast or all at once...but leaning into it and snubbing, it can be done.

In places where a person might be a PIW and the current runs faster than that, yes an alternate method or more people may be necessary.

Our boat draws 3.5 feet, so in the cove behind the sand hook is a good spot for us to get out and work on the hull.

Between number 2 and 16 is where the currents were too strong, that was where I was being drug under.

the sand bar to the right is a nice quiet place, but the fishing there is non existent.

OFB said:

The PFD adds a whole new level to the game in a current. Alot of folk will not be able to pull a swimmer that's wearing a pfd against even a small current

Much like trying to pull a sea anchor.

YMMV

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The person needs to be afloat and not in need of panicking (themselves or the crew) or over exertion before pulling them out of the water in the first place. Once grabbed , the pfd can be removed if need be. Also it is a heckuva lot easier to grab and hold a line tossed to you when you are wearing a pfd.

To imply "don't wear a PFD, it will make you hard to pull out of the water" , all I can say is wow....

A lot of, I'd say most folk will find it difficult to pull someone out of the water regardless, usually surprised because they've never tried it until an emergency.

While we are at it....when a person is pulled from the water, if there is ANY possibility of hypothermia....be as gentle with them as possible...they should not exert themselves as too vigorously...fast/more circulation from shut down extremities can cause shock.


Very simplified....EMTs...medical experts feel free to fix.


I just know more than 1 hypothermic victim that said they were fine dropped dead walking away from a USCG helo.

It's been said in a previous post, and I agree, that many things are possible in calm waters. I think if you go overboard in rough conditions your chances are just plain bad. Fatigue, and possibly hypothermia, will be factors to contend with of course, but let me tell you my one experience.

We went scuba diving off Puerto Rico in not ideal but very manageable conditions. 55 minutes later we surface in what has to be 6-7 foot seas (How they got up that fast i don't understand). Without the aid of both flotation devices (BC's in our case), and fins, I don't know we could have swam back and maneuvered back on board, even with the ladder down. My wife grabbed the ladders' bottom rung and she managed to hang on as a wave passed over the boat. As the bow fell off the crest, it lifted the transom, her (5'6"), and her dangling fins clear out of the water. Had she fallen, or had I not been able to kick clear that transom would have come down on us. My point is that the boarding ladder being both rigid and well attached was something I hadn't thought about till I saw this thread. Fact is if its rough, you won't be able to get to the boat and board without going through at least one wave. You'll need something to hang on to. I'd rather have a metal ladder than a rope one. It won't swing me under the boat.

Oh, if you're thinking sure but we had tanks to deal with etc. No we didn't. when we surfaced and swam back to the boat we took off our BC's and tanks and attached them to a line in the water. Safer getting off w/o them and then pull them in when that rough.

So moral of the story is if you do go overboard in rough conditions you will want to have some things with you. That's why you should never pee overboard at night without first putting your wetsuit, fins and PFD on

psneeld said:

While we are at it....when a person is pulled from the water, if there is ANY possibility of hypothermia....be as gentle with them as possible...they should not exert themselves as too vigorously...fast/more circulation from shut down extremities can cause shock.


Very simplified....EMTs...medical experts feel free to fix.


I just know more than 1 hypothermic victim that said they were fine dropped dead walking away from a USCG helo.

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Cut away all wet clothing, wrap them in blankets, and talk with them. Don't rub extremities. Do not give them anything to eat or drink. Keep them conscious and calm.

psneeld said:

While we are at it....when a person is pulled from the water, if there is ANY possibility of hypothermia....be as gentle with them as possible...they should not exert themselves as too vigorously...fast/more circulation from shut down extremities can cause shock.


Very simplified....EMTs...medical experts feel free to fix.


I just know more than 1 hypothermic victim that said they were fine dropped dead walking away from a USCG helo.

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Assume hypothermia until proven otherwise and that takes some time of observation.

Dealing with someone who says they're fine, ok, can be a challenge sometimes.

BandB said:

Dealing with someone who says they're fine, ok, can be a challenge sometimes.

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Oh Boy, are you right on point with that one! sure can be.

No Mast said:

Oh Boy, are you right on point with that one! sure can be.

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Hypothermia or sober enough to drive?

caltexflanc said:

The person needs to be afloat and not in need of panicking (themselves or the crew) or over exertion before pulling them out of the water in the first place. Once grabbed , the pfd can be removed if need be. Also it is a heckuva lot easier to grab and hold a line tossed to you when you are wearing a pfd.

To imply "don't wear a PFD, it will make you hard to pull out of the water" , all I can say is wow....

A lot of, I'd say most folk will find it difficult to pull someone out of the water regardless, usually surprised because they've never tried it until an emergency.

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Again I am missing my mark in this thread. Sorry if any one took my comment to imply " don't wear a PFD ".

My written word sucks but a PFD can bring a different or unexpected problem to falling in when a current is involved. My hope is to simple prepare folk as best I can on a forum of what can be the result.

From the nosy neighbor files. Goes back a while but I try as best I can to share stuff that is important to me. For what ever reason. Again I apologize , no intent to miss direct any one. Just trying to point out that there is no one fix, no one appropriate response to the hypothetical of the original post. Keep as many tools in the box as one can based on information on hand.



www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s30/being-nosy-nieghbor-7839.html

Since I am at it, falling into choppy salt water has another unexpected result that I believe folk might want to consider. depending on how long you are in there. You will have a tough time seeing , your vision will be effected by the salt water in a fairly short amount of time. In the dark that also adds another level of difficulty to survive with.

I apologize for missing my mark, hope you all understand all I want to is maybe assist one person survive such.

So YMMV.

OFB: no offense taken, I am not the one to cast the first stone on the "Intent vs possible interpretations" issue. There are quite a few newbies and impressionable folks here, and frankly a lot of corner cutters given a choice. Or put another way, those who haven't or don't do drills or practice safety and accident situations. For instance, on this thread and a few others, we found several who did not have a way to get themselves on board if they fell off to begin with. And so on...

No Mast said:

It's been said in a previous post, and I agree, that many things are possible in calm waters. I think if you go overboard in rough conditions your chances are just plain bad. Fatigue, and possibly hypothermia, will be factors to contend with of course, but let me tell you my one experience.

We went scuba diving off Puerto Rico in not ideal but very manageable conditions. 55 minutes later we surface in what has to be 6-7 foot seas (How they got up that fast i don't understand). Without the aid of both flotation devices (BC's in our case), and fins, I don't know we could have swam back and maneuvered back on board, even with the ladder down. My wife grabbed the ladders' bottom rung and she managed to hang on as a wave passed over the boat. As the bow fell off the crest, it lifted the transom, her (5'6"), and her dangling fins clear out of the water. Had she fallen, or had I not been able to kick clear that transom would have come down on us. My point is that the boarding ladder being both rigid and well attached was something I hadn't thought about till I saw this thread. Fact is if its rough, you won't be able to get to the boat and board without going through at least one wave. You'll need something to hang on to. I'd rather have a metal ladder than a rope one. It won't swing me under the boat.

Oh, if you're thinking sure but we had tanks to deal with etc. No we didn't. when we surfaced and swam back to the boat we took off our BC's and tanks and attached them to a line in the water. Safer getting off w/o them and then pull them in when that rough.

So moral of the story is if you do go overboard in rough conditions you will want to have some things with you. That's why you should never pee overboard at night without first putting your wetsuit, fins and PFD on

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Have to admit... I simply adore using swim fins! Wear them nearly every time I swim off our boat - which is very often - with or with out mask, snorkel etc. And, of course, with fins on there are some but few currents that you can't make headway against, at least for short period of time... much longer if you are in good condition. Small boogie board is great to rest forward body portion upon with fins a' kicken. Fast too!!

But I just gotta say - regarding bold sentence above - I'd pee myself before that get-up was adorned for a midnight flush-less urine elimination!

caltexflanc said:

OFB: no offense taken, I am not the one to cast the first stone on the "Intent vs possible interpretations" issue. There are quite a few newbies and impressionable folks here, and frankly a lot of corner cutters given a choice. Or put another way, those who haven't or don't do drills or practice safety and accident situations. For instance, on this thread and a few others, we found several who did not have a way to get themselves on board if they fell off to begin with. And so on...

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Yup . I know this thread , beside the pee, has allot of gold within. Good thoughts for that what the **** if deal. Trawler forum rocks ! Sure 99.99 percent of us ever experience such , but having some knowledge in the memory banks from where ever just might help. No ? Yes ?

Quote

Since I am at it, falling into choppy salt water has another unexpected result that I believe folk might want to consider. depending on how long you are in there. You will have a tough time seeing , your vision will be effected by the salt water in a fairly short amount of time. In the dark that also adds another level of difficulty to survive with.

End

Having or turning on a deck light could really give you an advantage IMO.
Actually I now hold some value of under swim platform or underwater lighting. Light up where the re-board device is before heading out on deck ? yes no ?

Random thoughts Kinda.

Interesting must be a Canada thing, I have never had a problem with salt water and seeing. Many an hour in my life in the saltwater, all my growing up in fact, nary a problem.

If I recall from the last time my tears are salty as well.

In short I do not recall ever having a difficult time seeing while in salt water, even can open my eyes under water and I can still see, not clear of course but fine when back above.

Never had a problem with eyes and salt water, the chlorine in public pools bothers me more than Atlantic water.

Underwater lights, especially the under the swim platform lights ... ... I have them and leave them on; on anchor, at the dock, whenever the intentional, or not intentional, boarding might happen at night.

How about a floating cargo net, has a float line on the edge trailed behind the swim platform. Maybe even a plastic sealed PVC pipe extension tied on the edges to keep it from going under the boat. And pool noodles on the outer back edge to keep it floating. Or pool noodles all the way round the periphery of the net instead of pipes.
Should be easy if swimming to roll yourself onto it, then clamber up on the swim platform.
Such a net should have a small enough weave so you do not get caught in it but big enough weave to grab with hands and feet.

I think even a small net 3 by 5 feet would work

Another idea is a rectangle of glued 3 to 5 inch PVC pipe, (straights and elbows) and a small cargo net lashed to the pipe. Secure long end of rectangle to swim platform, other end floats on the water. easy to crawl into and pipe floatation buoys you up as you crawl back on boat.

In regards to poor vision in salt water:

Don't forget your glasses probably fell off when you fell overboard...

River Rat said:

In regards to poor vision in salt water:

Don't forget your glasses probably fell off when you fell overboard...

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If you are lucky enough to see well enough to be able to wear corrective lenses, such as glasses/contacts, and function throughout daily life activities (such as I am with thick glasses on, having been born with long duration blood clot closed eyes resulting in near loss of vision for first couple years) then you will immediately understand how to deal with survival emergency if no glasses suddenly become available... ya could call it a force-practiced "Earth Bound 6th Sense"... for persons with poor vision!

That said: I believe that in boating (due to the untold number of emergency variables that might/could suddenly unfold) it is only prudent and wise for each regularly participating boater to pre-address as many issues of emergency as possible that might affect their chance of survival and/or their capability of helping others to survive. IMO for captains this is a must! I'll list a few emergency assistance materials/parts/items that I feel sit at top of my list (not necessarily in order of importance). Please add more that might be at top of your emergency preparedness boating list.

- At least two life rings readily available with minimum of easily seen 50' 3/8" yellow floating line attached and easily unfurled for throwing the ring while keeping the line's end loop firm in your hand for pulling MOB back to boat.
- Ladder or other means for getting MOB aboard once pulled back to boat.
- Life preservers aboard and ready to darn in seconds with ample sizes available for different age/size person's aboard. I keep many of these inside the boat's confines and equal amount under a large seat on flying bridge.
- Many fire extinguishers in many places. We have seven aboard our 34' tri cabin. each instantly accessible if need be.
- Full array of emergency medical supplies in transportable, large emergency box.
- Ample length lines and number of anchors so that if one or two either become lost of jeopardized here is another to also utilize
- Never any less than 10% minimum engine fuel available... preferably not less than 20%.
- Working marine radio so that boat to boat and/or boat to shore communications are available.
- Many high beam hand held flashlights immediately available in many places on board for emergencies that might occur in the dark.

Also, for much of the above suggestions I believe it is imperative at minimum for the Captain to have tried his or her efficiency in actually employing reaction to emergency situations where any of these "tools" might be required for use. And, it's always good to have the first mate on boat to have gone through these "try-outs" with the Captain. Run throughs in test patterns should be accomplished every year or two.

I look at it this way... "Better Safe than Sorry!!

Happy Boat-Safety Daze - Art

While walking the docks at Trawlerfest yesterday, I saw a boat with toe steps molded into the side with an opening in the safety railing. I thought it was a good idea. They were above the waterline 3-4 toe holes I wish I had taken a photo now...

In the sailing world, we used to do MOB drills. Under sail (under controlled conditions) we have a person jump into water - as if they fell in. Sailboat and crew goes through a pre-planned maneuver / procedure and attempts to rescue the MOB. The drill is executed several times as we rate ourselves on success and refine the protocol. In the rare event it happens for real, the crew knows the MOB plan and relies on their training. The keys were to have one person always keeping an eye on MOB at all times. (person can get lost in waves) Then, throw out Life Ring flotation ring or any bright colored flotation device immediately, Hit MOB button on Chartplotter, Turn boat around (in sailboat there are several maneuvers depending on boat and wind direction, quick turn, figure eight, etc) and head slowly back to MOB, stop boat, stabilize boat speed / direction, prepare for bringing MOB on board. Devise a method (before hand) of recovering MOB and lifting person onboard safety. Many different methods depending upon boat, equipment and crew. One thing we learned was (as many others have) it is very difficult if not impossible to lift a person on board - that is the stark reality - if they do not have the capability of getting to and climbing up stern ladder. Putting another person in the water can be effective depending on conditions but is always a hard judgement call. If MOB has capability they can swim up to stern ladder and climb back in. But if MOB does not have capability, you can swim to MOB and place a clip on to their PFD harness and lift them out of water using a 4:1 or 6:1 block and tackle that is attached to end of boom that is hanging above the port or starboard side of water. Another strategy is to use a dingy as an intermediate platform to clip MOB to side of dingy with head out of water until you can work out a way of re-boarding. This is all from memory, I have the procedures written down and are onboard. They key is to practice the routine with your crew once a year such that a real MOB does not turn into a chinese circus.

Lessons we learned were that getting back to MOB in short time is the easy part. Getting MOB back onto the boat (if they have no capability to climb) is near impossible but it can be done and we have. So this led us into thinking more about Prevention. We then understood that the real key is to not have anyone fall off boat in first place! So use of PFD harness on jacklines and other methods of clipping yourself and crew members securely onto deck in bad weather is key. Person can not fall over when clipped securely in cockpit or on deck if harness and jack line is setup properly. Also in calm conditions, rules such as not peeing off the side (especially at night) are key. basically anything you can think of to minimize a person going over board unintentionally. As getting a person back on board (depending on their condition) can be very difficult and some times impossible. So doing everything possible in terms of Prevention is really the key.

Dan Sabre 32

Avoiding falling overboard while enjoying the phosphoresence

SCOTTEDAVIS said:

While we discuss emergency exiting elsewhere how about emergency re-boarding.

Could you?

Here is the scene, middle of the night you get up to check the anchor (*pee over the side) and for what ever reason you fall overboard. You have the boat in the normal overnight condition that you always have it when overnight anchoring.


Can you get back in by yourself with no help?

How about....add any or all your choice.

1. Water temp is 59^F

2. Current is 2.1 kts

3. Waves or chop

4. You broke your wrist in the fall.



No help is available, no life jacket or harness attached.

Can you get back in the boat? How? Why not?

Discuss

* as Richard says not a good idea, but I bet we all have done it a time or two. I find it to be among the luxuries to do so on a nice night with a full moon, but I digress, sigh.

I will have a very hard time on my boat.

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When I had custom swim step staples fabricated I had the height designed so they are at the bottom of my fly. That way I can safely pee overboard at night and enjoy the reaction of the thousands of tiny phosphorescent critters who signify their pleasure by lighting up.

DPTrainor said:

But if MOB does not have capability, you can swim to MOB and place a clip on to their PFD harness and lift them out of water using a 4:1 or 6:1 block and tackle that is attached to end of boom that is hanging above the port or starboard side of water.

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Obviously not the first choice of ways to recover but we have practiced using the tender crane for lifting a person.