"europa"

Does anybody remember when the term "europa" came into play to describe sedans with the over sized upper deck? Its kind of a marketing thing - right?

I am sure it is a marketing term, maybe invented by Grand Banks but widely copied. As you note, it indicates a sedan style boat with the boat deck extending to the end of the cockpit.


Since it has a nice, sheltered aft cockpit, usually a wide salon with the galley down or forward and the owners cabin forward where you can get good sea breezes, it is one of my favorite styles. Why GB sold their aft cabin models 10:1 over the Europas has always puzzled me.


David

Greetings,
Mr. dj. I think you're correct in that GB first coined the term "Europa". As to the 10:1 sales ratio? Could be that the double cabin (aft cabin) models offered just that whereas the Europa models were limited to one sleeping berth.
We've had both and prefer the Europa style for the larger SALOON (sorry, ticklish point with me in case you haven't noticed).

I think they were as popular as they were/are partly because of the name. People love a cute name. My mom really liked leeks and I think she like the name as much or more than the leeks.

The Classic style (aft cabin?) is a lot lighter up high where it counts more but it looks like a lot more weight generally speaking. A heavier boat.

I'd rather have a boat like Marin's. More business-like and salty or w more apparent seaworthyness. More proper looking and well .. classic. They'd look more at home crossing Dixon Entrance on a snotty day.

But the extra shelter where it's sunny or here in the PNW where it's rainy the extra shelter makes sense. When I bought Willy one of the first things I thought I'd be doing is adding an aft cockpit cover. Spray rails too but neither seemed important enough to do as time went on .. Especially the spray rails.

As an ex European I have always scratched my head in wonderment about the marketing term "Europa" or "Euro Style" as it applies to kitchens, furniture and yes, boats.

We catch and eat a lot of fish. The Europa is much better for fishing with the lower aft deck and access to the the fishing gear. For us fishing people the standard tri cab is a non starter. Our current boat, with the aft salon, fishes similar to a Europa.

oscar said:

As an ex European I have always scratched my head in wonderment about the marketing term "Europa" or "Euro Style" as it applies to kitchens, furniture and yes, boats.

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As an other European I think you know that selling an aft cabin "Motorjacht" would be almost impossible in Europe, good thinking and market knowledge of GB.

I am not so sure the salon/saloon is wide. It gives up a lot of space to the wide side decks...which happen to be covered on a Europa. I think the GB Europas are some of the nicest looking boats ever made. I think the 46(dunno what the newest model is called but the 46 of the mid 90s to 2000s) is about perfect proportion. The 52, while an amazingly spacious boat WITH an aft cabin, looked pudgy and pregnant. But I still think it is a fantastic boat.

The first reference to "Europa" I've seen is from American Marine when they used it to describe their Grand Banks sedan version with covered aft and side decks back in the later 1960s or thereabouts.

The configuration makes a lot of sense with regards to weather. Up here in the PNW/BC with all the rain, wind, and cold the covered aft deck, which a lot of people enclose with removable or roll-up clear plastic curtains, offers a way to be outdoors while not being outdoors. The space can even be heated if one wants. In hot climates it offeres a very user-friendly outdoor space that is shaded.

Of the various Grand Banks configurations the most popular over the years has been the Classic aka tri-cabin closely followed by the Europa. The Sedan and Motoryacht configurations are a distant third and fourth in terms of popularity.

Greetings,
Mr. Marin. Clarify if you will...Aren't sedan and Europa styles essentially the same? Europa being the American Marine labelled sedan (generic description) model.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. Marin. Clarify if you will...Aren't sedan and Europa styles essentially the same? Europa being the American Marine labelled sedan (generic description) model.

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Depends on what you want to believe. By actual branded model, they are not the same. The Sedan has no covered aft or side decks. The GB32 is a sedan. There are also GB36 and 42 Sedans although not many as it was not a popular configuration.

Europa is indeed a marketing term but who cooked it up and what inspired them to use the name for this configuration I have no idea. Perhaps the slanting side pillars were a notable feature of European yachts back then, I don't know.

Many owners add a hardtop over the aft deck of a GB32, but as-built the GB32 is a sedan and that name was capitalized by American Marine as one of their four basic model types, Classic (tri-cabin), Europa, Sedan, and Motoryacht (the Motoryacht is a Classic but with a full-width aft cabin).

Some people claim a Europa is simply a sedan with covered decks so that makes "sedan" is the correct generic name covering both configurations. I don't necessarily argue that, but I never use the term "sedan" to describe a Europa because "sedan" says nothing about whether the decks are covered or not.

So I use American Marine's original naming guidelines and consider them two separate configurations. Otherwise you end up having to then explain that "my sedan has covered aft and side decks," where if you just say "europa" to start with most everyone in the recreational cruising world immediately knows exactly what your boat looks like.

That's my take on it, anyway. Other people can view it however they want. It's not like being simply flat out wrong across the board, like calling a playtoy boat a "trawler," right?

I agree with the GB conclusion, but the design has been around for a while. My '81 "europa "was designed by Ed Monk Jr., built on a CHB hull but with a distinctive "europa surround" and flybridge structure. I was told by PO that a broker in SoCal ordered 22 of these and then turned around and marketed/sold under the brand name of Heritage 45. Only seen one other, in SF Bay Area. Great layout for offshore with its wing doors but especially for hot Delta summers with its shade. Isenglas encloses the cockpit in winter. Twin 3208s. Have had it for going on 25 years and wouldn't trade for much more (well, maybe a Fleming 55.)

Ted lyman said:

I agree with the GB conclusion, but the design has been around for a while. My '81 "europa "was designed by Ed Monk Jr., ....

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While I have no idea if American Marine was the first to do this--- probably not, I suspect the Greeks probably did a covered-deck thing like this in something-BC---- AM was building a europa configuration in the late 1960s in both their Grand Banks and Alaskan lines of wood boats. GB's were switched to fiberglass in mid-1973 but the company could never afford to switch the Alaskan to fiberglass. Too bad for them but good for Tony Fleming who stole AM's "how to build a fiberglass boat" manual that Howard Abbey wrote for AM and started his own company.

RT Firefly said:

Greetings,
Mr. Marin. Clarify if you will...Aren't sedan and Europa styles essentially the same? Europa being the American Marine labelled sedan (generic description) model.

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A Europa is a sedan....but not all sedans are Europas.

Marin said:

Some people claim a Europa is simply a sedan with covered decks so that makes "sedan" is the correct generic name covering both configurations. I don't necessarily argue that, but I never use the term "sedan" to describe a Europa because "sedan" says nothing about whether the decks are covered or not.

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I made my reply before I read this(I do have a tendency to skim). I will agree with this. Sedan is a general term. It is a term that relates to the layout and configuration of a boat. Whether the aft and side decks are covered does not alter the basic configuration or layout of the boat. So I will stay with my above statement. To be honest, I have a hard time calling ANY boat a "Europa" unless it is a Grand Banks. For me, it is almost a trademark. If I see a Marine Trader with covered aft and side decks I will likely refer to it as a Europa styled boat....in the end, they are all sedans!!!!...

"Why GB sold their aft cabin models 10:1 over the Europas has always puzzled me".

Mere volume.

Closer to a dirt house than a boat.

The PO of my boat sold it to buy a GB 42' Europa. The reason he mentioned for wanting it was the covered side decks. It would be better for the line handlers when locking in the rain. I've boated and locked many times in the rain and I'am not sure it's a legitimate reason to spend 250 grand on a bigger boat, probably sounded good to his wife though.


Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

Sedans .... yes love'um.

And I love the GB32 sedan. I'm also nuts about the NT32 and they call it a tug. It's even less a tug than a trawler is a trawler if you've just had lunch w MF. So w/o the stupid tug name what is a NT? Raised PH? Not a sedan IMO. And what's the difference between a NT and a 36/42 GB? They are both tri-cabin boats. Brand naming is just sales hype and the boats are what they are.

Most all trawlers are tri-cabin boats and all the other names are just builders wanting to make their product special.

In the smaller sizes--- 32-40 feet--- a tri-cabin provides more flexibility if one has kids or guests on board. In our boat, for example, the guests get their own cabin and head up forward and we have our own cabin and head/shower aft with the neutral space of the main cabin in between. People can get up, make coffee, etc. without invading the space of the other people.

With a smaller Europa, like the GB32 or GB36, additional people on board have to sleep in the main cabin. Which means making up a berth, taking it apart the next morning, and so on. And there is only one head on the boat.

The best of both worlds in our opinions is a large Europa, say 46 feet. These boats are large enough to have two or even three cabins up forward. There is still usually one head/shower, often connected with multiple cabins with a clever configuration of doors.

Of course this puts all the occupants of the boat in the same space with just thin bulkheads between them, where the tri-cabin has the whole middle of the boat between them.

As with everything, one size does not fit all. So which configuration makes the most sense for a person or couple will depend on what they will be doing with the boat.

manyboats said:

Sedans .... yes love'um.

And I love the GB32 sedan. I'm also nuts about the NT32 and they call it a tug. It's even less a tug than a trawler is a trawler if you've just had lunch w MF. So w/o the stupid tug name what is a NT? Raised PH? Not a sedan IMO. And what's the difference between a NT and a 36/42 GB? They are both tri-cabin boats. Brand naming is just sales hype and the boats are what they are.

Most all trawlers are tri-cabin boats and all the other names are just builders wanting to make their product special.

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Eric, Nordic Tugs is a brand....so they are not necessarily claiming that it is a tug. Just like on my Mainship Pilot. Right there, plastered on the side of the cabin top was "Mainship Trawlers".....part of the brand....not the type of boat.

Marin said:

In the smaller sizes--- 32-40 feet--- a tri-cabin provides more flexibility if one has kids or guests on board. In our boat, for example, the guests get their own cabin and head up forward and we have our own cabin and head/shower aft with the neutral space of the main cabin in between. People can get up, make coffee, etc. without invading the space of the other people.

With a smaller Europa, like the GB32 or GB36, additional people on board have to sleep in the main cabin. Which means making up a berth, taking it apart the next morning, and so on. And there is only one head on the boat.

The best of both worlds in our opinions is a large Europa, say 46 feet. These boats are large enough to have two or even three cabins up forward. There is still usually one head/shower, often connected with multiple cabins with a clever configuration of doors.

Of course this puts all the occupants of the boat in the same space with just thin bulkheads between them, where the tri-cabin has the whole middle of the boat between them.

As with everything, one size does not fit all. So which configuration makes the most sense for a person or couple will depend on what they will be doing with the boat.

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That is the nice thing about having a forward and aft cabin. While our boats are styled completely differently, the layout is relatively similar. And it is very nice to be on opposite sides of the boat as it relates to privacy.

Seems to me the Europa style is a version or refinement of sedan. No surprise that IG included a Europa design version in the IG36, and no surprise they are more readily saleable than the base sedan version. It seems to have been an opportunity to offer a higher priced model, with more bells and whistles.
Our 1981 boat follows the "one sleeping cabin" mode referred to above, but others had a second sleeping cabin.
There are practical use advantages to the covered walk around decks, and I would not have part replaced teak with teak in a deck renewal had the cockpit and side decks not been covered. That said, as with many boats, I wish the aft end of the FB extended a foot or so further.

Here's the Lotus version of a Europa. Pretty sexy, in an odd sort of way.

BrianSmith said:

Here's the Lotus version of a Europa. Pretty sexy, in an odd sort of way.

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Nice.
Renault 16TS engined? Pic taken in Amsterdam?

Our GB 46 Europa is very different and may well be the only one ever built. It has two sleeping cabins forward and two heads, each with separate showers. The galley is "u" shaped and is aft of the saloon, rather than forward as in the standard model. It's betwee the saloon and the cockpit. A pleasure to serve food to the outside or inside. One of the two sliding cockpit doors was eliminated to provide space for a double stacked refrigerator rather than the "down on your knees" kind in the standard boat. The fridges are the teak GB/Grunert coldplate with one over the other. Another feature is a foldout desk on the starboard side of the saloon with room for a laptop computer and associated electrical connections. A pretty unique and efficient design. The original owner had much correspondence with the folks in Singapore detailing the custom work which he left onboard.

Lovely boat, that, Howard. One of my dreamboats...

I think of our wee vessel as sort of a sedan converted to Europa, by doing with SS frame and Sunbrella canvas what the new ones do with solid upper deck.

Peter, your Europa conversion puts you in the unique position of having and using the same boat as a standard sedan, and as a Europa.
What made you decide to do it, and what are the advantages and (if any) disadvantages of the conversion?

All advantages Bruce, not a single disadvantage. Ok, well maybe one disadvantage of it not being solid fibreglass is one would have more room for more solar panels if solid, although that could even be got around if determined enough. However, take it from me, panels mounted onto canvas direct do chafe through unless completely separated by a frame, or built/zipped into the canvas like some flexible panels can be. I still don't like the idea of a heavy object like a dinghy up there in a boat our size, which is easier if deck is solid, but that would make it heavier still. The way it is, it is almost no extra weight up high, so maybe balances out.

Some of the pluses are it gives more weather cover & shade to the cockpit, and shades and weather shields the side decks, more importantly maybe, the windows. It also tends to stabilise the boat at anchor, minimising sailing to and fro in a wind, because the structure appears to act like the fletching on an arrow. One unexpected advantage, actually.

Grand Banks 10 to 1 sales of tri-cabin to Europa. Looked closely at both in the 90s and would have bought the Europa if more used ones were available - price was too high compared to the tri-cabin.

The tri-cabin offers more interior space and a large aft stateroom and large aft head with shower or tub. The Europa's master stateroom was / is smaller but you have the open aft deck and the easier access to the water.

Ended up with a Krogen 42 which has the virtues of the GB Europa.

One of the elusive GB 36 Europa's for sale, with the desirable Cummins 5.9. These do not come up for sale all that often, especially with single.

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1991/Grand-Banks-36-Europa-2927578/Friday-Harbor/WA/United-States?utm_campaign=em_pbs_yw#.Vqn3Kq88KrU