Anchor Choice

I am new to this forum, and have seen some posts from 2013 discussing various anchor options, mainly focused on Mantus and Rocna comparisons. We have been cruising in our Mainship Pilot 43 for 10 years now, using the Delta anchor that came with the boat. Mainly cruising the northeast waters, I can say definitively that the provided anchor has been a failure on multiple occasions. I do think though that the provided Delta is also too light (35 Lbs.), which adds to the problem.

In any case, moving on, my wife has just retired and we're planning to make our first long term voyage, cruising the Down East Circle Route. I've been upgrading systems as required for the trip and do not want to take it with my current anchor. Researching it, I find the Mantus and Rocna to be very close in design. Reviewing comments from the 2013 thread, as well as the specs called out on the manufactures websites, I am questioning what size Mantus or Rocna to get. It looks like that I should be considering the Rocna 33 (73 Lbs) or the Mantus 65 Lb. My other question is how this added weight will affect my Lewmar V2 windlass.

My boat weighs 35,000 dry and is 45' in length. Any suggestion and/or comment is appreciated. Thanks, Dave H

Oh oh........


Please do a search. many many many anchor threads and many many many different views!


BTW welcome

Not about to get into a discussion of anchor preferences, but whatever the manufacturer's chart reads, go one size larger.

We have a Rocna 20 (44 lbs) on our 30,000 pound, 36' cabin cruiser. This was the size recommended by Rocna for our particular boat when I talked to them in New Zealand some 7 or 8 years ago when we decided to switch to their anchor.

For a 45' 35,000 pound boat I would think a minimum size would be the Rocna 25 (55 lbs) and you might consider the next size up from that depending on the nature of your anchoring conditions.

You will, of course, need a windlass capable of handling whatever anchor and rode you decide on. I assume the specs for the Lewmar V2 are readily available.

That's what she said! " can't we go one size bigger" .....I didn't marry her.

IntoTheBlue said:

Reviewing comments from the 2013 thread, as well as the specs called out on the manufactures websites, I am questioning what size Mantus or Rocna to get. It looks like that I should be considering the Rocna 33 (73 Lbs) or the Mantus 65 Lb. My other question is how this added weight will affect my Lewmar V2 windlass.

My boat weighs 35,000 dry and is 45' in length. Any suggestion and/or comment is appreciated. Thanks, Dave H

Click to expand...

Hi Dave,

During my refit project, I changed to a Rocna 33. My boat is 45' and about 33,000 dry. Went back and forth between the 25, 33, and 40. Realistically the 25 is a little to small, the 33 was fine with a 50% surplus margin on weight, and the 40 was just ridiculous over kill that thankfully wouldn't have fit my pulpit. The 33 is for boats to 46' weighing up to 50,700 pounds. Plenty of margin for either of our boats. Will start using it in about a week when I head South.

The additional weight should have no effect on your windlass. The load of breaking an anchor out of the mud would be far greater than the additional 30 or 40 pounds from the new anchor.

Ted

if I recall correctly the anchor comes up through the pulpit rather than hanging off the end on your boat. You will probably have a problem getting a roll bar anchor to fit well. If that's the case consider the Vulcan or Spade as an upgrade from your Delta. You can get a pattern from the Rocna website that will allow you to cut out a full size anchor profile from cardboard and try the fit before you buy.
I've had several Rocna's exchanged for Vulcans after the buyer found the roll bar gets in the way when they mount it on the boat.

I'm switching to a Vulcan from a Delta on my boat.

The roll bar can be an issue. On mine the roll bar locks up against the front of the pulpit. There is a stainless steel plate between the pulpit and the anchor that it contacts and a block is inserted between the shank and the anchor roller to keep it from rocking sideways. Will see how it works. So far so good.





Ted

IntoTheBlue said:

We have been cruising in our Mainship Pilot 43 for 10 years now, using the Delta anchor that came with the boat. Mainly cruising the northeast waters, I can say definitively that the provided anchor has been a failure on multiple occasions. I do think though that the provided Delta is also too light (35 Lbs.), which adds to the problem.

Reviewing comments from the 2013 thread, as well as the specs called out on the manufactures websites, I am questioning what size Mantus or Rocna to get. It looks like that I should be considering the Rocna 33 (73 Lbs) or the Mantus 65 Lb. My other question is how this added weight will affect my Lewmar V2 windlass.

Click to expand...

Lots of anchor threads on here, so plowing through all those -- if you haven't already -- would help, too.

A comment about weight: I agree your 35-lb Delta was too small for your boat. Ours was delivered with a 35-lb Delta, too... so maybe that was a Luhrs Group "minimum acceptable" thing. In any case, note that a 65- to 73-lb Delta may also be an option, depending on what will fit well on your pulpit/roller. IOW, comparing a 35-lb X to a couple 70-lb Ys isn't apples to apples. Not a recommendation, just an observation. (See other threads for discussion about convex vs. concave, blah blah blah...)

BTW, on another forum, I read that the Lewmar version of Delta anchors isn't including the extra lead ballast in the toe that came on our earlier Simpson-Lawrence version. If true, and if applicable in your case, maybe that would have been affecting performance, too...

Ref recommendations to upsize: FWIW, SuperMAX is a manufacturer that I know of who does not recommend having to upsize from their chart. Upsizing with a Delta always seemed to me like a good idea, and I do that with Fortress anchors, too. Don't know about the other brands.

-Chris

No doubt Rocna is a popular and a good anchor, I personally have issue with the roll bar and other than the fit on the bow, I believe the roll bar will impede the anchor from burying itself deep ( er ).
We had a 65 lb. CQR ( real thing ) on our previous 13 ton sailboat but it had issues setting, but once it set, it was o/k.

This time around on our ( new to us ) boat, I have spent countless hours poking around the internet and the choice is clear: " Spade " ! It sets quickly, burries itself deeper the more you pull on it and holds like a SOB !. It's pricey !! but how valuable is your investment or a good night's sleep ...... If I win the lottery, I would buy an " Ultra " .... LOL

Definitely go ONE size up if you can carry it ...... cheers, my .02 CAD

IntoTheBlue said:

.............My other question is how this added weight will affect my Lewmar V2 windlass.

Click to expand...

I will answer the question that I am qualified to answer.

Your windlass should have a maximum weight rating. Look in the manual or look it up on the Internet or vendor's catalog. You should find the weight rating. Keep in mind that you will be raising chain as well as the anchor. Also, there will be resistance from a well set anchor to contend with.

If I had to guess, I would guess that the extra 30 lb or so you are talking about won't make a difference.

We purchased the Rocna, could not be happier as it opened up a new world of boating for us, nice knowing when the wind switches directions I don't have to rush up to the bridge and get ready to reset it. There are other anchors with similar design and results, just make sure you add plenty of chain into the equation. Also last tip, the Rocna website had a down loadable file that you can print out and piece together giving you a 1D size of the actual anchor, this gave me a chance to see how it would fit on my pulpit before buying.

I have a Mainship Pilot 34 which has a similar bow pulpit to your Pilot 43 and a roll bar like the standard Rocna has won't work.


But Rocna makes their Vulcan, Manson makes their Boss and Spade makes their Spade, all of which don't have roll bars and should tuck up nicely in your bow pulpit.


I would go with at least a 50 lb anchor.


David

My boat also was equipped with a Delta 35 when I bought it.
It was not adequate.
I upgraded to a Delta 44. That holds the boat fine. It is now my secondary.
My preference for LI Sound mud is a 35 Danforth.

The thing to be aware of when considering roll bar vs non-roll bar anchors is that the roll bar is there for a reason. It's what makes this type of anchor what I call a "pro-active" anchor in that the roll bar and the configuration of the rest of the anchor cause the anchor to always behave the same way every time regardless of its orientation when it first contacts the bottom.

Non-roll bar anchors I refer to as drop, drag and hope anchors because they can land on the bottom in various orientations and remain that way as they are dragged along in the setting process. They will generally dig in sooner or later and work just fine. But sometimes they don't and a re-try is necessary.

We did a lot of research when we decided to replace our original anchor. At the time I had never heard of the roll bar anchors. One of the main factors that convinced us to go that route is their consistent performance. They always end up in the same position on the bottom and in that position the anchor's design forces the relatively sharp fluke to slice sideways down into the bottom like a knife blade as soon as a pull is exerted on them.

I do not write this in an attempt to convince anyone that they should buy a roll bar anchor. Which anchor seems best for a given boat and anchoring conditions is something every individual will have to evaluate for themselves.

I write this only to make the fairly obvious point that if a roll bar anchor does not fit easily or conveniently on a pulpit, going with a Vulcan or a Spade or any other type of non-roll bar anchor does not automatically equate to equal anchor behavior and performance. A roll bar anchor operates in a unique manner. Not having the roll bar means the anchor will not operate in that particular manner.

Whether one likes the way a roll bar anchor works is another matter, and is dependent upon personal evaluation and preferences.

Well, here I go- into a can of worms.

Marin is generally correct, roll bars are there for a reason- to right the anchor quickly if it lands upside down. But take a look at the attached pic of the Manson Boss. It's very wide side wings bring the anchor upright quickly as well.

David

djmarchand said:

Well, here I go- into a can of worms.

Marin is generally correct, roll bars are there for a reason- to right the anchor quickly if it lands upside down. But take a look at the attached pic of the Manson Boss. It's very wide side wings bring the anchor upright quickly as well.

David

Click to expand...

Can of worms notwithstanding, the roll bar's purpose is not to bring the anchor upright but to force it to lie on its side and stay there. Which side doesn't matter. Then when the shank is pulled on, the resistance from the down end of the roll bar and the skid plate in front of it force the fluke to pivot around this point of contact on the bottom which slices its point sideways down into the bottom. The action is the same as holding an open pocket knife edge down on the bottom and then pivoting the knife on your knuckles forcing the point and blade down into the bottom.

Only when the fluke has sliced knife-like down into the bottom does the geometry of the anchor and the continuing pull force the anchor to rotate and present the full width of the buried blade to resist the pull.

But the whole process is dependent upon the anchor ending up on its side, not upright resting on the underside of the fluke. This is the sole purpose of the roll bar; to force the anchor onto its side no matter how it initially lands on the bottom.

At the time we were looking for a new anchor this action, illustrated in videos on websites at the time, is what got us seriously looking at the roll bar anchor as the best way to go.

Wow starting another anchor free for all. You are defiantly a newbie here or are you a trouble maker(just kidding) You have the potential of days to read a million anchor posts enough to confuse anybody. I have an Ultra why? it has more bling than many other anchors an looks good on the bow. It also sets well holds well and tests well. Oh did I mention it is really pricy.

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

Oh oh........

Please do a search. many many many anchor threads and many many many different views!

BTW welcome

Click to expand...

++ Second
Welcome
Anchor search should even turn up a video series on anchors in action...interesting.

Aw...anchor threads are like the full moon....

They need to come regularly to bring out the "best" of some members...

psneeld said:

Aw...anchor threads are like the full moon....

They need to come regularly to bring out the "best" of some members...

Click to expand...

I suspect that we end up with more and more threads on subjects like anchors, rode, bow and stern thruster, singles vs twins, etc. because it's far easier for people, particularly newcomers to the forum, to simply ask the question anew rather than wade through the archives and reading "old" stuff.

This is a world of instantaneous communications gratification, right? I bet most people view searching through the archives as being akin to having to schlepp down to the library to research a term paper. And nobody wants to do that again after they've graduated.

psneeld said:

Aw...anchor threads are like the full moon....

They need to come regularly to bring out the "best" of some members...

Click to expand...

Was that to bring out the "beast" or did you really mean best??

There are no new subjects. Or very few. The life of a forum is discussing the same things over and over. People look for new material to read. They get involved based on today.

Now, a search still can have benefit, but it doesn't get answers tailored to the specific poster. Plus on a subject like anchors, you get hundreds of threads and wading through them for useful information. I do use the search function here and the google search, but with either one you have to wade through lots to get a little and then that little you get may well be outdated.

Also, a key element of a forum is interactive participation. You can't do that with people who posted years ago and aren't even here now.

BandB said:

Now, a search still can have benefit, but it doesn't get answers tailored to the specific poster. Plus on a subject like anchors, you get hundreds of threads and wading through them for useful information. I do use the search function here and the google search, but with either one you have to wade through lots to get a little and then that little you get may well be outdated.

Click to expand...

I have found the same to be true, and I'd like to suggest to the web operators of this forum to reprogram your search engine.

Try searching for something specific and the list of threads is endless with no way of filtering them. Personally I find the problem so bad that I no longer use the Search feature on this forum. I go to Google and type "trawlerforum <SEARCH WORDS>" and it brings up extremely specific results.

I honestly know little about web design, but the above is an ongoing problem that I have found as a web user.

HopCar said:

if I recall correctly the anchor comes up through the pulpit rather than hanging off the end on your boat. You will probably have a problem getting a roll bar anchor to fit well. If that's the case consider the Vulcan or Spade as an upgrade from your Delta. You can get a pattern from the Rocna website that will allow you to cut out a full size anchor profile from cardboard and try the fit before you buy.
I've had several Rocna's exchanged for Vulcans after the buyer found the roll bar gets in the way when they mount it on the boat.

I'm switching to a Vulcan from a Delta on my boat.

Click to expand...

Thanks, this is my actual concern. My thought is that perhaps the length of the anchor will fit with the roll bar past the pulpit. I have do some measuring and print out the template that both Mantus and Rocna offer online. I'll check out the Vulcan.

djmarchand said:

I have a Mainship Pilot 34 which has a similar bow pulpit to your Pilot 43 and a roll bar like the standard Rocna has won't work.


But Rocna makes their Vulcan, Manson makes their Boss and Spade makes their Spade, all of which don't have roll bars and should tuck up nicely in your bow pulpit.


I would go with at least a 50 lb anchor.


David

Click to expand...

David,

My last boat was the Mainship Pilot 34 Rumrunner, which had the bow anchor plate. In my opinion, the Pilot 34 was Mainship's best. I have taken the 34 in just about every condition the northeast seas from LI to Nantucket can provide. Handled them all. (We were just up in Essex on the 43, travel there often).

I tend to agree about the pulpit problem. Reading in this thread suggestions to take a look at the Vulcan or Spade. Unfortunate, as in reviewing the roll bar, the concept is great for a reliable set. Mainship provided 35 lb Deltas on both my 390 Trawler and Pilot 43 and it simply did not hold. Thanks for the input.

Marin said:

I suspect that we end up with more and more threads on subjects like anchors, rode, bow and stern thruster, singles vs twins, etc. because it's far easier for people, particularly newcomers to the forum, to simply ask the question anew rather than wade through the archives and reading "old" stuff.

This is a world of instantaneous communications gratification, right? I bet most people view searching through the archives as being akin to having to schlepp down to the library to research a term paper. And nobody wants to do that again after they've graduated.

Click to expand...

On the other hand, if everyone just searched the archives instead of posting, this forum would soon be dead.

There are new members and new products as time goes on. While it's true that much of this has been covered before, telling a new member to "just search the old posts" can come off as pretty rude if not phrased correctly.

Also, we may give a different answer today than we might have a few years ago based on new experiences.

I won't say what kind of anchor I use because I don't want to hear all the flack.


BTW: If you are concerned about an anchor fitting your boat, buy it at West Marine. If it doesn't fit, they will allow you to return it and refund your money.

[problem.



My boat weighs 35,000 dry and is 45' in length. Any suggestion and/or comment is appreciated. Thanks, Dave H[/QUOTE]

To summarize the hundreds of anchor posts. The anchor must fit on your boat-the windless capable of dealing with rode chain and weight- the waterline should not noticeably go down from too much bow weight. The anchor should have a record of reliably working well in the bottoms you will encounter and the scope you intend to use. The rest of the choice is really as muddy as some bottoms with plenty of tests opinions and discord. If you ignore all that and pick a modern digging anchor that fits and is sized to your boat you will be fine. If you anchor out a lot you might want to carry a fortress in the bilge with a mainly rode line as a backup.

O C Diver said:

The roll bar can be an issue. On mine the roll bar locks up against the front of the pulpit. There is a stainless steel plate between the pulpit and the anchor that it contacts and a block is inserted between the shank and the anchor roller to keep it from rocking sideways. Will see how it works. So far so good.

View attachment 48291

View attachment 48292

Ted

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Ted

The pictures show your Rocna is already beating up the pulpit on your gorgeous vessel. Suggest you get a SS piece for the pulpit.

I am going with a Vulcan. Good price, good reviews and bigger than current Bruce. Why am I changing? Cost and effort to re-galvanize current one not worth the hassle plus I've always felt current anchor is one chart size too small for gale+ conditions. We're doing a fit and retrieval test with real anchor in the next few weeks.

O C Diver said:

Hi Dave,

During my refit project, I changed to a Rocna 33. My boat is 45' and about 33,000 dry. Went back and forth between the 25, 33, and 40. Realistically the 25 is a little to small, the 33 was fine with a 50% surplus margin on weight, and the 40 was just ridiculous over kill that thankfully wouldn't have fit my pulpit. The 33 is for boats to 46' weighing up to 50,700 pounds. Plenty of margin for either of our boats. Will start using it in about a week when I head South.

The additional weight should have no effect on your windlass. The load of breaking an anchor out of the mud would be far greater than the additional 30 or 40 pounds from the new anchor.

Ted

Click to expand...

Hi Ted,

I narrowed it down to either a a Spade 120 which weighs 55 # or the Vulcan 33. I agree with you though that although I'd rather deal with a 55 # anchor, it is realistically a bit small. So I'm going with the 73 # Vulcan 33. I have a Fortress FX-23 for secondary anchor. Thanks for the input. Dave