surveyor findings - walk away?

GregMitchell said:

which is, oddly enough, why it works for us.....We don't need the long haul capabilities of a real "trawler".

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I'll be the devil's advocate by saying I get where you're coming from, and I don't think it's all that bad a prospect. The overall condition cosmetically looks quite reasonable. It is well kitted out. The frozen radar is no biggie if you get a good discount, as you'd want to buy one of the newer broadband types nowadays anyway, especially for a lot of close river work, and they are much lower power draw and output, so that arch position would be fine for up and/or down stations.

The engines don't sound too bad. Not a bad idea to renew all hoses and belts anyway to start fresh, and to do the turbo gaskets is not too major. They don't look like they've had a long or hard life otherwise.

The genny might be toast - or cactus - but maybe not, with a bit of TLC..?

It is a very nice layout, and would have a decent turn of speed. If I'd had access to the opinions I would have got about my boat as it was before purchase on this forum before I bought it I would probably have run a mile, and possibly been denied many quite cheep and cheerful experiences. Might still be looking, actually...just sayin'...

IRENE said:

I think this brand is too much of an unknown here in the U.S. ...

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Probably the most accurate statement on this thread.

Nice boat. Have fun.

CPseudonym said:

Let this be a lesson for all you shoppers out there.

Do not EVER fall in love with a boat you do not own.

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Oops to late I've got one on mind But I also love the one I own That doubles the problem .

If you don't like working on boats I would look at something else. Your kids may would rather use the boat right away than watch you work on it .

Why in the world would you buy this boat??? Even if you gives it to you, you are going to spend time and money on a boat that will probably never be right.

Volvo's have a reputation for expensive hard to find parts, and your likely going to need a buch of parts.

GregMitchell said:

I have a 1991 Storebro 400 SRC in contract

Engine survey, VolvoTAMD71Bs, 350 HP at 2500 rpm

WOT 2350
(after cooler parts are $4700, each)

my initial inclination is, this owner didn't take care of his boat, therefore, there are hidden gotchas even the best surveyor will miss and I could be looking at big bills even after these fixes.


mechanic says to get the fixes, assuming compression is ok, then run the engine hard for 2 hours and test the oil again to see if something huge is brewing in those expensive engines.

opinions?

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Let's see now:

• Engines are 25 years old
• Engines cannot make full throttle
• After coolers are shot
• Volvo engine parts are costly and not easy to find

Opinions, yes. Serious stuff, time and $$ to contemplate here. Have a PM or two with Kevin Sanders about prospects.

I have older Volvos than those, and have had no problems getting parts, keeping them properly maintained, using them.
That said, 1350 hrs is too little for the number of issues your surveyor has identified. The seller has tried to hide their condition under a spray can of paint. Maybe the hour meters have been replaced 1350 hrs ago and they are a lot older? Is your mechanic a VP guy? That would influence the degree to which I would accept his advice on the engines.

Here's a thought, if your still considering the boat, find a Volvo marine dealership, and go talk with one of their managers. Ask them about the specific model engines in the boat you are considering. Are parts available; is a complete rebuild kit available. While you may be able to find aftermarket parts and rebuilt engines available, if Volvo is only selling inventory ( not making new parts) that could be a problem in a year or 2.

Lastly, don't know if you care about resale value, but if you want to sell it in 5 years, you may the engines become a huge stumbling block for perspective buyers.

Ted

O C Diver said:

Here's a thought, if your still considering the boat, find a Volvo marine dealership, and go talk with one of their managers. Ask them about the specific model engines in the boat you are considering. Are parts available; is a complete rebuild kit available. While you may be able to find aftermarket parts and rebuilt engines available, if Volvo is only selling inventory ( not making new parts) that could be a problem in a year or 2.

Lastly, don't know if you care about resale value, but if you want to sell it in 5 years, you may the engines become a huge stumbling block for perspective buyers.

Ted

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Great idea, thanks

We have one of those out here not sure if it is the exact same but certainly looks like it now that the listing is up.
FWIW - that boat out here is very tender especially on rolling beam seas even at higher speeds. The boat has a narrow beam and even narrower just under the waterline with a high freeboard and CG along with lots of windage and plenty of power for this type of boat. Couple that with larger props and good sized rudders and the boat is known to really lean over when they cruise with us in the past.
If you have not run this boat in larger than 2-3 foot beam seas I suggest you try it out before purchase.


Hope this helps

i noticed a fore/aft acceleration up on the fly bridge at speed in say 2' chop. I did not experience that same motion at the main level, so chalked it up to the lever arm of being up high and, well, really pushing her. the boat certainly leans over when in a tight radius turn at speed, almost speedboat like.

spoke to "the guy" in the SF Bay area when it comes to volvo's, he's going to take a look at the engine survey. agreed the aftercoolers are almost always an issue but didn't think parts would be a problem for quite awhile yet. He's northern european (guess) and likes both the model of the boat and the engines.

Nothing clear cut here other than it won't be cheap....

GregMitchell said:

actually, I'd be interested to hear if someone feels real strong about it either way. the inspector, who spent 12 hours in the engine spaces, was cautiously optimistic.

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The key element none of us can answer is your tolerance for dealing with problems getting it into shape and finding hidden problems. I have very little so I'd be running my fastest, but you seem to have more. I saw enough things there though to tell me minimum of $50k off the price to consider taking it.

BandB said:

The key element none of us can answer is your tolerance for dealing with problems getting it into shape and finding hidden problems. I have very little so I'd be running my fastest, but you seem to have more. I saw enough things there though to tell me minimum of $50k off the price to consider taking it.

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I've rehabbed a couple boats, including a Santa Cruz 50, but nothing where I'd need to bring in the experts like this.

I agree, somewhere around $40-50k off current agreement.

GregMitchell said:

I've rehabbed a couple boats, including a Santa Cruz 50.

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No wonder you need a fast boat, even your sailboat was semi-displacement

Gdavid said:

No wonder you need a fast boat, even your sailboat was semi-displacement

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haha, it was fun sailing her to Hawaii last year for sure.

My background is high performance skiffs and multihulls. My other boat is a strip-planked International 14 skiff.....,

I think to sum it up its typically one of those orphan boats that looks a bit different but has lots of problem owner want $100000 but will take $70000 then you spend $100000 getting it up to a fair standard then you own another orphan boat that's worth $70000 and cant sell it for $60000
So there are some great boats for sale around $170000 without the pain

Walk! Too many must fix items.
Lots of boats out here.
Arch

Thanks Arch.

Greg, I think you are already doing this, but just work your way through the issues. Remove the emotional elements for and against. When you are ready to decide take pen and paper(ok your laptop), write down the pluses and minuses, and take into account the advice here, as part of your thinking to say yea or nay. And if yea, only at your brutal and conservatively(your way) calculated offer. Remember, you have to get it insured, with that survey the insurer will have questions and or conditions.

well, unfortunately the oil analyses came back far outside of normal parameters.

Gawd that's a relief! Go get a good one!

GregMitchell said:

well, unfortunately the oil analyses came back far outside of normal parameters.

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Sounds like you really wanted that bad, so too bad the analyses did not meet your expectations. But you probably weren't surprised.

"well, unfortunately the oil analyses came back far outside of normal parameters."

This is not unusual for a dock queen that sits for months with an occasional start to show the engine will operate.

Oil analyses works best with operating vessels so a history can be compared over a period of time.

A snapshot is seldom useful.

FF said:

"well, unfortunately the oil analyses came back far outside of normal parameters."

This is not unusual for a dock queen that sits for months with an occasional start to show the engine will operate.

Oil analyses works best with operating vessels so a history can be compared over a period of time.

A snapshot is seldom useful.

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Absolutely - engine oil tests like these are not very accurate and finding particular issues. I would not be surprised with any and all problems these engines would have due to their operating parameter history and their maintenance. While IMHO I would not pursue this boat myself this oil test would not be a reason to walk away.

agreed that trends are better, but one engine is showing coolant in the oil, the other is showing evidence of bad rings...

Lesson for everyone - don't park your boat for 8 years, run it occasionally, and think non-use will keep it like new.

What's the term on Boatdiesel? Engine Age?

There are so many good condition boats in the $100K price range I can think of any low price that would make me want to take on that project.

bayview said:

There are so many good condition boats in the $100K price range I can think of any low price that would make me want to take on that project.

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You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
And know when to run

GregMitchell said:

well, unfortunately the oil analyses came back far outside of normal parameters.

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bayview said:

There are so many good condition boats in the $100K price range I can think of any low price that would make me want to take on that project.

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While I'm not ready for another boat project, if I really liked the boat, I might see what repowering would cost. Clearly not a new state of the art motor, but maybe some remans. Who knows, you might even find a pair of remans of what's in the boat. If I were liking the boat, I might consider a pair of factory reman Cummins 6BT 220 HP. Wouldn't get the 18 knot cruise, but should be able to get 14 or so. Less than $40K for the pair and maybe you can use the transmissions. Point is that it costs little to get some estimates and see what might be out there. Figure the boats worth $10 to $20K with 2 bad motors. Maybe the owner is ready to sell for a song, maybe not. Nothing wrong with the boat with 2 reman motors for $80K to $100K total. All depends on how much you and the admiral like the boat.

Ted

O C Diver said:

While I'm not ready for another boat project, if I really liked the boat, I might see what repowering would cost. Clearly not a new state of the art motor, but maybe some remans. Who knows, you might even find a pair of remans of what's in the boat. If I were liking the boat, I might consider a pair of factory reman Cummins 6BT 220 HP. Wouldn't get the 18 knot cruise, but should be able to get 14 or so. Less than $40K for the pair and maybe you can use the transmissions. Point is that it costs little to get some estimates and see what might be out there. Figure the boats worth $10 to $20K with 2 bad motors. Maybe the owner is ready to sell for a song, maybe not. Nothing wrong with the boat with 2 reman motors for $80K to $100K total. All depends on how much you and the admiral like the boat.

Ted

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interesting development, seller said "i'll fix everything on the list, and cover the full cost". it's a long list. I know there is stuff that isn't on the list but if the engines (all 2), support systems, radar, autopilot, windlass all get full repairs, this might work.

That is attractive, but it puts the repairs outside your control. Have the contract provide for the seller to produce repair invoices, and for you having the work professionally checked, as a precondition to finalizing the deal. If you get hesitation about the inclusions, reconsider altogether.

Be sure to be in agreement as to who does the work and what constitutes a complete repair. I'm afraid to even think of what has yet to be discovered. I still think you should move on to another boat.