Passengers - how many?

I have a 1984 37' CHB Sundeck model trawler. She weighs 27,000 pounds and is in good shape. My question is: How many people should I have on board at one time. I have plenty of life jackets but I want to be safe, weight and listing wise. What would be an appropriate number and/or weight of people on board at one time. Thanks for your comments and suggestions.

jnvoss said:

I have a 1984 37' CHB Sundeck model trawler. She weighs 27,000 pounds and is in good shape. My question is: How many people should I have on board at one time. I have plenty of life jackets but I want to be safe, weight and listing wise. What would be an appropriate number and/or weight of people on board at one time. Thanks for your comments and suggestions.

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Depends on the size of your bar.

Serioulsy.... to affect the safety of your vessel we're talking tens, 20's of people. Is that what you're trying to do?

Yes, I'm thinking 15 tops but certainly no more than 20 if some are children.

Just make sure they don't all run to the same side at the same time.....

That's a lot of folks to have on a boat....

Early in my boating career, I frequently worked aboard yachts with passengers aboard. I was the mate/lookout/jack-of-all-trades guy on most occasions, but I ran a few boats too.

It wouldn't be the load on the vessel that would be my biggest concern, it would be non-boaters being curious or dangerous. If you mix in some children, alcohol, weather, darkness, etc...the potential problems grow considerably.

If I had 20 people on that boat, I would feel safe with an operator and two crew. One crew would be roving and the other would be near the stern to drop a throwable and yell for help, if needed. Maybe grab a boat buddy or two to help with the guests?

If the 20 guests were responsible boaters, then I would skip the supervision.

Good Luck!

Our local regs limit the number of passengers depending on length and beam. Numbers are reduced slightly if the boat has a flybridge, and no more than 25% of total passenger limit can be on flybridge.

This chart & and formulas may give you a rough idea (convert meters to feet) https://www.sa.gov.au/topics/transp...nd-marine-safety/boating-safely/boat-capacity

The maximum number (12 people for my boat) is under ideal conditions in flat water. In rough conditions, I wouldn't consider taking more than 3 passengers aboard.

I've had 15 on board my 38 for a coastal pleasure cruise. Including some kids. It was ok, except the kids flipping breakers and switches. It was a handful for me and my mate who was doing her best to control the herd.

It all depends on what the passengers are doing. Sitting down and being polite, can carry plenty. Running around, carrying on, being loud, drunk, messing with controls, that becomes a problem.

I do not think loading a pleasure boat with that many people is wise particularly if skipper and additional crew are not used to the situation. How does a responsible skipper keep track of all those passengers on a typical trawler type most would be out of sight line and watching them would be distracting. When I see a boat that loaded particularly at an event like a holiday fireworks my first thought is that skipper is an idiot.

Our Maritime Authority insists there be a maximum number of pax, and on affixing a prominent decal displaying that number.
They send you the decal in blank with a bunch of adhesive numbers and tell you to work it out yourself. I suppose if I went for 99, technically I wouldn`t be overloaded, in a regulation sense.

That formulation gives me 16 with 4 on FB. Most I've had is 11, all ostensibly adults. That seemed fairly busy, but just a sunset cruise under primo conditions.

Weather, kids, boat experience, all factor in. Whatever I feel comfortable with.

I asked this a while back concerning our boat, and Tad Roberts was good enough to give this 'rule of thumb' reply;

Trawler Forum - View Single Post - Passenger Ratings

My limit on that boat would be 12. I might go 14 for a short local day cruise in the ICW. To me it's the space and the ability to maintain control of the situation.

At 58', we could probably carry 20 or so fairly comfortably, but the thought of 20 or more using my one guest head might be enough to make me think about a Honey Bucket on the swim platform!

The USCG tests inspected boats , you could easily check yours for an idea of what is safe.

In the slip measure the freeboard (WL to deck) and stick a piece of masking tape midway between .

Then with loose lines so they do not restrict the boat healing , have your guests slowly line the rail on one side.

When the masking tape gets wet , half the freeboard is under water, and you have an approximate load limit.

Ask the guys their weight , don't ask the ladies , figure 150lbs each .

Now you have a rational guesstimate for fire works nite ect.

I had 17 aboard my old 34 Mainship with no problems.
Had 20 aboard my 40 Albin, again no issues.

jnvoss said:

I have a 1984 37' CHB Sundeck model trawler. She weighs 27,000 pounds and is in good shape. My question is: How many people should I have on board at one time. I have plenty of life jackets but I want to be safe, weight and listing wise. What would be an appropriate number and/or weight of people on board at one time. Thanks for your comments and suggestions.

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20 people is not that much weight total to worry about unless the boat is overloaded to begin with.

The problem is distribution possibly.

If you can control the distribution you should be OK.

I would limit the Flybridge crowd to 6 total... not knowing your boat but that is the max on some boats of similar to smaller size....

Ask that at least that many remain in the interior as low as possible if practical or just make sure the number of people on one side or the other doesn't exceed the other by too much.

Without having most of them down near the waterline, a small imbalance could be aggravated by a large wake....

...so the hardest thing in my mind is controlling the crowd versus having it aboard.

A few years ago a Silverton -- '80s 34 Convertible, I think -- with a boatload of pax aboard capsized after a July 4th fireworks show. NJ or NY or somewhere up there. At least one death: a child down below at the time couldn't escape.


IIRC, conclusions ran the gamut, from overloaded, to not exactly overloaded but bad weight distribution, to rogue wave, to confused seas caused by wakes from other departing boats, etc.


Anyway, Google that if you're interested. Might have some useful tidbits.


-Chris

People (weight) on a flybridge have more effect on boat's stability than people closer to the water. My boat had a decal (now faded) limiting the flybridge to six people. I think it's important to remember that people vary greatly in weight with some people weighing two and even three times what some other people might weigh.


Someone pointed out that sea conditions need to be taken into consideration. What might be fine on a canal on the ICW might not be fine at sea or in a large open bay in a storm.


The most I have had on my boat was eight, all adults and on a canal on the ICW. They were all relatives and none were drinking. I wouldn't want to have to manage more than this number.

Carrying a large number of passengers aboard an uninspected recreational vessel may seem safe, right up to the moment that it's unsafe. Just a few days ago I found my thoughts returning to several day or evening trips that I made aboard recreational yachts when I took a couple of dozen friends / guests. Never had an accident or even an incident, but knowing what I know now, I think I was just plain lucky.

E.g.: One evening I boarded about twenty-four fellow church members on a 65' Hatteras motor yacht, myself as captain and an experienced volunteer as designated crew. Everyone had a good time, but even the crew member failed to observe the things that made me uneasy, like the fifteen or so minutes when everyone tried to crowd the top deck and then someone yelled that there was a dolphin swimming alongside the boat. Yes, we took a heel, but the big Hatt dug in and never listed more than about ten or twelve degrees. Still, I think I was a dumbass for having done that, and thank my lucky stars that nothing bad happened, like a slip-and-fall, a mechanical problem, etc.

To the OP's question, I'm with those who instinctively think that about a dozen on that boat should be the limit, and then only with an overabundance of caution.

Google "overloaded boat capsizes" and most hits will be migrants and refugees, but you'll find many examples of recreational boats. I would rather err on the low side than high side. A lot of man overboard results come from crowded boats.

Boat is a Heritage 45, 15' beam, 40,000 lbs Had 20 or so on the flybridge/dinghy deck for a Christmas lighted boat parade. Everybody wearing Santa hats. Wind came up and one person's hat went off the starboard side. People laughed and then went quickly to that side to see where the hat went. I was at the wheel and the shift in weight scared the *&** out of me. The boat lurched dangerously to one side. Lesson: it's not so much how many people but what is the worse that can happen with the people you have on board. Unanticipated stuff happens!! I'm done with large groups.
Ted

I just reread my post from yesterday: "Whatever I feel comfortable with." Sounds a bit cavalier on the subject.

The correct context is: I've had 11 adults aboard during optimium sea/wind conditions. That was not a "load" problem, but keeping track of even 11 well mannered adults had me on edge - this was not that long following the July 4 incident in NYC.

What I feel comfortable with at this point is not load limiting issues, it's how many souls I can have aboard and with safety and general comfort considerations. These considerations are varied. Example: I have a "one interested adult per child rule." Not a load problem, but concerns about overboard and as mundane as what an unsupervised 5 year old can do to a marine head. Ask me how I know.

On another occassion I received some heat from a friend who brought her outstanding 89 year old father along. Good guy in good shape all things considered. As unforecast weather and sea state built, I packed the trip in at an unconvenient intermediate stop. Most everything on my boat is either hard or sharp or both. The prospect of this gentleman loosing his footing and getting seriously hurt where I might get only bruised drove me to the decision. Chicken? I guess.

My comfort zone is now, at the very high end, the aforementioned 11 exemplary passengers/crew and great weather. Everything else is a subtraction from that number. Kids are lighter, but generally (to me) present possible concerns way disproportionate from their weight.

I greatly appreciate Ted's candor in relating the story above. It reminds me of a monthly column in Flying Magazine called "I learned about flying from that." Aviators would "drop their drawers" and relate actual incidents and events (usually involving pilot judgement or interpretation of situations) that created accidents/near misses. I learned quite a bit about some unquantifiable but important aspects of flying from it.

Most I've had underway, including myself and crew, were six adults and four children. All but one of the four guest adults (no boating experience) remained in the saloon (?). The childrens' mother escorted her four PFD-equipped children on deck. Water was calm and the bulwark and strong railings reduced risk. No stability problems were noted, perhaps helped with the absence of a flying bridge. They all appreciated the colorful sails of Vallejo-race sailing participants. Still, boating with just us two crew creates less adrenaline production.

I had 15 (small adults) aboard last year at Seafair.

The boat didn't perform noticeably differently than normal, and it was pretty choppy out. I anchored in the middle of the lake and we were all on the boat deck and pilot house roof at times and it never felt tippy. I had nearly full fuel and water tanks at the time—about 3500 pounds low in the boat.

I'd guess we averaged 150 pounds per person. Nordic Tugs makes my same boat with a flybridge. Some people have dinghys and davits up top too. All that has to weigh 1000-2000 pounds, although it doesn't move around like people.

On my boat I limit the total number of persons (adults) counting myself to ten. That usually works out to six on the sun deck, three plus me on the fly bridge. Everyone has a place to sit, there is no overcrowding of fly bridge, aft deck or....heads! Plenty of space for folks to move around with ease.

Children are a different matter, if young children are part of the group, the limit is still a max of ten as described above and have to be a ratio of one adult per child. I'm probably overly paranoid but I cannot imagine a child going overboard and will not put myself in a situation where that could happen due to a child not being supervised properly.

While I'm certain the boat can easily carry more, this is my comfort limit and being comfortable while having guests is the most important thing to me.

I helped convert a former crabbing boat to a USCG inspected passenger vessel for inshore charter operations on the Chesapeake bay (1999-2000). I also was the mate on the boat for the next 4 years. The modification and inspection process was very interesting. The hull was a 46' Markley which is a rather common commercial hull for this area with a good reputation. After all of the measurements, calculations and stability test the vessel received a rating for 39 passengers (it may have been 40) and the limiting factor in that case was the seating area and not the stability test. We had no intentions of running with that many but it helps the value of the vessel for resale. We did run right at capacity one time to run folks from one bar to the next within the harbor without issue (I was a seasoned drunk sitter by this point). Our largest fishing party was 24 which was uncomfortable but safe. We discouraged groups over 18 but it is very difficult for a trip organiser to handle the last minute additions or no shows so it was nice as operators to have the flexibility.

I learned a lot about life and boats on that boat. I dare say that few mariners alive can rebuild an electric head or untangle bottom rigs faster than me. BTW the cockpit was 28' long.

This "trawler" would be good if unexpected guests appeared.

So long as you have PFDs for everyone, and your boat isn't pushed down so low that water is coming up the scuppers, and not eveyone is leaning over the same side, and you aren't leaving the dock, you should be OK.

Ski in NC said:

I've had 15 on board my 38 for a coastal pleasure cruise. Including some kids. It was ok, except the kids flipping breakers and switches. It was a handful for me and my mate who was doing her best to control the herd.

It all depends on what the passengers are doing. Sitting down and being polite, can carry plenty. Running around, carrying on, being loud, drunk, messing with controls, that becomes a problem.

Click to expand...

That reminds me when a kid was looking at one of our choppers at a meet and greet air-show and set off the ELT. USAF responded with an alert aircraft within about 30 minutes. They were not happy.

New builds in the EU have to comply with certain regulations to "declare CE" and this "CE" is mandatory since mid of the 90ies.
Depending on supposed shipping areas - A ocean, B off shore, C coastal (3 nm from shore) and D inland waters - different numbers of passengers may be allowed by these regs depending on the specific design of the boat.
Although our boat is (due to her age) not covered by these regulations we follow more or less the numbers given for new builds of similar (looked with the eyes of an engineer) design too our AMS (40', 40000 lb): area D - 12 persons, rest 8.
Since our life raft has only 6 person capacity we don't go off shore with more than 6 on board ...


best regards / med venlig hilsen
wadden