Motorhome vs. Trawler

Marin said:

Driving to very cool towns in France like Albi and Roquefort and Cordes sur Ciel was a lot of fun, made even more so by the friends we were with. But we were merely driving through the environment and looking at it. On the boat, we are part of the environment.

Don't know if that makes any sense to anyone, but that to us is the difference between boating and traveling by road on land. Even when we're stopped for the night, when we're on a boat we are never removed from being an integral part of the dynamic, ever-changing environment that is the water. We're not observers, we are participants.

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People are amazed that we haven't traveled to Europe. Like at our anniversary they say, you should go to Paris to celebrate it. Well, the wait is because we want to travel Europe by boat. We'll certainly go inland to see things, but just arriving by water to a new location is special. I never felt the magnificence of the San Francisco Bay Bridge until I went under it. And, I hate to admit this since we are not sailors, but we chartered a sailboat and then went out and in during the course of the day. That was even more right. Suddenly, we were those beautiful paintings we'd seen. Our next destination is the Caribbean. Exploring all the islands is just a thing to be experienced from the water..for us.

We have family we like to visit in Myrtle Beach..family we adopted as our parents and sister. We can visit them three ways:

Air 1 hr 40 min. $200
Car 10 hr. 19 min. 684 miles so at 50 cents per mile $684
Boat 510-530 miles (depending on dips into marinas) 3 days or in a fast boat 2 days. I don't want to even calculate the cost.

Yet, I'm sure you know which way we choose if at all possible.

BandB said:

People are amazed that we haven't traveled to Europe. Like at our anniversary they say, you should go to Paris to celebrate it. Well, the wait is because we want to travel Europe by boat.

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I'm not a huge fan of Paris. It is very well worth seeing as it's history and art and all the rest of what makes Paris Paris is terrific. But we're not really big-city people.

To my wife and I the coolest thing about Paris is the same thing that's the coolest thing about London: the Seine in the case of Paris and the Thames in the case of London. Working rivers through big cities are fascinating to us.

If you could arrive in Paris by boat and tie up for however long you wanted to be there I think you two would find that absolutely enthralling. The quays on either side of the Seine are set up to accommodate liveaboard and transient vessels along certain stretches. Many of the things you'd want to experience are within walking distance of the river and of course there are the subway and RER rail systems as well as rental bikes.

Photos are from our visits to the city and show a couple of Seine "RVs". Actually they are permanent residencies. The owners live aboard and the city lets them park their cars on the quay next to their boats. The cathedral in the background of the first shot is Notre Dame, the big building in the background of the second shot is the Louvre. Boats are held off the quay by spring-loaded poles to act as shock absorbers against the wakes of the tour boats and big self-propelled cargo barges that are constantly on the move on the river.

We (particularly me) are fond of traveling on trains in Europe: the "civilized" way to travel on land. Costs are reasonable in Europe; not so much in the USA.

markpierce said:

We (particularly me) are fond of traveling on trains in Europe: the "civilized" way to travel on land. Costs are reasonable in Europe; not so much in the USA.

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Once when I was young I was on a train but other than that neither of us have traveled on one. We will one day perhaps, just for the experience.

BandB said:

Once when I was young I was on a train but other than that neither of us have traveled on one. We will one day perhaps, just for the experience.

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Mark is correct in writing that European trains are far superior to the few remaining passenger trains in the US and Canada. We use the TGV to move between regions in France, for example, and they're fast, glass smooth, and now non-smoking.

Of course an easy thing to forget is that Europe is very small compared to the US and Canada. France, for example, I believe has a smaller area than Texas. So you can get just about anywhere from just about anywhere else in just a few hours at most by train.

And for those who want to tour Europe and the UK by motorhome you can "drive" it across the English Channel on the train through the Chunnel.

what_barnacles said:

These guys do. The "Q"

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Looks like the big winter gathering at Quartzite AZ. We don't participate in those kind of things. With the millions of acres of BLM land, it's hard to figure why people do that. We see many group cruises on the water, and there are many group gatherings for RVs. That's not really our thing. We are travelers and transients. Of course we will make an exception for the TF SE Florida winter gathering.

That reminds me . . . . . . . .

what_barnacles said:

These guys do. The "Q"

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Is that what happens when you do something bad in life ?

There is a difference between RVers and boaters. When RVers get together they sit around drinking, eating and telling lies. Boaters? When they get together they sit around drinking, eating, and talking about joker and duck bill valves. But then RVers talk about the dreaded pyramid.

psneeld said:

How about gooseneck trailer?

If you don't have those either, a fifth wheel is like a trailer of a tractor trailer rig where the trailer attachment is forward of the rear wheels (say in the bed of a pickup) instead of on or under the bumper.

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Ok, right...with you now. Yes, we have those, though not hugely popular, as most folk who want to go that big will go for a motorhome. Many of the roads caravaners traverse to popular places here in Aus and NZ are not really suitable for rigs like that.

Quick question for you RV guys. Advantages or disadvantages of a class A vs a 5th wheel.

"Quick question for you RV guys. Advantages or disadvantages of a class A vs a 5th wheel."

Its more a matter of RV lifestyle style.

A 5th wheel is great for folks escaping for a vacation TO someplace.
A winter in Fl or AZ , drag the beast down , set it up and for a week or a season , you have a home and transportation.

The class A is better for road touring , esp if not too large, UPS trucks are everywhere so that is about a good size for city & country travel 24 Ft
.We do now have a 35ft coach , but I have been RVing for 20+ years , so have NO FEAR!of city traffic.

We have parked curbside at meters all over CA with a 22 class A and pay no additional expense in parking lots like the Alamo .

USA touring can be inexpensive if you travel early and eat lunch in the town of the day.

Head out of town about 2 -3pm and hit the next campsite with little traffic
We are recovering New Yorkers so visit small towns and cities , rather than go watch the grass grow.
Different Strokes,,,,,,,,

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"We (particularly me) are fond of traveling on trains in Europe: the "civilized" way to travel on land. Costs are reasonable in Europe; not so much in the USA."

US too!

In Europe we take a train to a new town for 3 or 4 days

6AM breakfast , to an early train to arrive at the next town about noon ,check in hotel , go tour.

Explore the town and next AM after breakfast take a local bus out 15-40 miles to a place or town of interest ,return for dinner at home plate.

The next day do it again in a different direction.

Euro Room and train reservations are a snap on line , so its a nice effortless way to see more than a tour would allow.

Capt. Tim, not having a class A or a 5er, i will weigh in on another perspective. Size matters, and not in the usual way. The larger the unit the more restricted you will be to some of the best most secluded campsites. For instance, I like to fish mountain streams for trout. To get a good site by a flowing stream that is secluded is what I look for. Sometimes I wish my TT was smaller.

That being said, get the smallest unit that will fit your needs.

Moonstruck said:

That being said, get the smallest unit that will fit your needs.

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Thanks Don, not in the market right now, just getting info. Being use to a 35 Carver which has tons of room for a 35' boat it seems we will feel crowded in any size RV.
I've heard 32' is the largest most national parks can handle.

"I've heard 32' is the largest most national parks can handle."

Most of the rules were made in the 1950s , when towing an Airstream behind your Caddy was the norm.30 ft and 22 of car was about it.

Blue Bird lied about its 31 ft WanderLodges (called them 30) to ease the hassle.

The new extra high RV are a bigger hassle as many trees must be trimmed to get by.

In a few places the long wheelbase (with no hinge in the middle) and narrow road has caused very careful driving .

timjet said:

Quick question for you RV guys. Advantages or disadvantages of a class A vs a 5th wheel.

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Tim...
Just like boats different styles abound and satisfy different styles & preferences. Most Cl A can tow a sm car for easy & economical daily travel vs 5er usually needing a hefty diesel truck...sometimes duelly just to travel around.
Visit a campground and observe both pulling in and setting up...there is a difference but whether it's an issue depends on your RV travel style.
Cl A can easily tow a runabout \ fishing boat if that's desirable...not so easy in most states w a 5er

I notice one distinct difference between the US and much of the rest of the world. It's not surprising. We have bigger homes. In RV'ing, I notice the tremendous popularity of Caravans in Europe and in Australia, while in the US they are a very small part of the RV world.

There are lots of guides that will tell you if the destination you have in mind has a size or other limits. So far, they have been accurate where we have gone. We have explored State parks and have so far found none that failed to have at least some spaces big enough for our 44' plus 20' tow.

One of the places we like to stay on our repeat trips heading south is a winery that has enough parking and has joined a group to attract RVs. Get there before the tasting room closes, stock up for the stay in the US. Stopping on the way home to Canada doesn't work as well, as limits at the border discourage stocking up.

As for differences between Class A and 5th wheel, in the very biggest 5th wheels, they are less evident, except for the size of the towing vehicle. Some are towed by Freightliner Tractors modified to remove one set of rear wheels. Then you are stuck driving a huge vehicle to go to the grocery store. Smaller 5ths, are just that, smaller. You can be quite comfy in one that can be hauled by a Ford F150.
A Class A can tow, depending again on size, from a Smart car to a Hummer (have seen many of each). Some guys where we are haul a stacker trailer with the Vette, Pickup and Razer all in an enclosed space. All depends how much you want to haul.

Then there are parks that restrict: Class A only with minimum sizes (where we are), Class A and 5th only with minimum sizes, to no restrictions. Depends what you are looking for.

All of this info is in the guides.

The thread seems to be drifting from Steve9506's inquiry about moving from motorhome to trawler (via sale or swap), to motorhomes, 5th wheels, trains, planes, etc.

Steve's reason, and to BandB's point, being on the water is the attraction and the #1 reason for being on the boat. To quote Melville's Moby Dick... "Whenever I find myself growing grim about the mouth; whenever it is a damp, drizzly November in my soul... then I account it high time to get to sea as soon as I can".

timjet said:

Quick question for you RV guys. Advantages or disadvantages of a class A vs a 5th wheel.

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Quick question, not so quick answer. We started with a fifth wheel, moved to a class A, and then moved back to a fifth wheel. An obvious difference is the engine, which should be run periodically. This impacts suitability for long stays in the same location. A fifth wheel trailer can be easily backed while hitched. You may need to disconnect your toad (towed car) to back a motorhome. Another difference is back-in vs pull-in, which affect your access to and views at different locations.

Less obvious differences are found after you live with both for a while. For example, if staying longer where temperatures are cooler, the built in propane tank of many motorhomes must be driven to the fill location. Where we are currently in Anacortes, delivery requires 100 gallons or more and extension tanks are not allowed on the ground. Some have mounted them on receiver hitch racks with connecting adapters and the subsequent risk of leaks. (A Newmar dealer refused to install an adapter on ours because of this.) So, pack everything in, drive around, fill, come back, and set back up again. That can get old quick. By comparison, most fifth wheels have smaller removable tanks. We have two 40 pound tanks in ours. So, one can continue in use while we remove the other to refill it. Of course, that means having to lift the filled tank back into position. Thankfully, I can still do that. Some campgrounds can deliver or pick up your removable tank for refill. Thus, the importance of this may vary with your usage. Another difference is in floor plans. It's difficult to find a motorhome that has a decent desk. The 43' Newmar we had had a desk that was part of the dinette. That became problematic when I didn't always put my computers away after work, preventing use of the dinette part for dining. For a pull-in site with a view, the front seats of a motorhome are great. Backing in to a similar view with a fifth wheel may require rotating the recliners at the rear. Another difference is in how you respond to noise. With a fifth wheel traveling down the road, any movement in the trailer is isolated from the tow vehicle. With a motorhome, you can hear movement in the cabinets, microwave, etc. as they are in the same airspace not far behind your seat. While not usually a problem, it can be worrying to some.

With the basement pass-throughs, motorhomes can have quite a bit of storage. However, our 38' fifth wheel with a (rare) rear basement has more storage than our 43' motorhome had. With the motorhome, we lost some storage space for the driving area and some more storage space for the engine. The front storage areas of the fifth wheel are often taller than the basement storage areas of the motorhome. Some motorhomes have their storage attached to the slides. That will affect both their size and their heatability in winter compared with in-basement storage.

Common features can be things like hydraulic leveling, very handy. Something else to think about a slide toppers, the awning that extends out over the room slide-outs. In very leafy areas, these can hep prevent leaves from accumulating on the tops of the slides. However, in very windy areas, these can be torn. The main slide topper on our 43' Newmar tore one winter in Anacortes and had to be replaced. Our Carriage fifth wheel does not have slide toppers. But, it's slides do not have a vertical lip on the outside to catch things. So, leaves brush off when the slides are pulled in.

As you can see, there are quite a few pros/cons both between them and with individual features. For exploring this more in depth, I recommend checking the Escapees RV club forum at rvnetwork.com or a more general forum like irv2.com.

Bacchus said:

Most Cl A can tow a sm car for easy & economical daily travel vs 5er usually needing a hefty diesel truck...sometimes duelly just to travel around.
Visit a campground and observe both pulling in and setting up...there is a difference but whether it's an issue depends on your RV travel style.
Cl A can easily tow a runabout \ fishing boat if that's desirable...not so easy in most states w a 5er

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The newer diesel pickup trucks have higher ratings than before. For example, our 1-ton SRW Ram is rated for 17K while our 38' fifth wheel maxes at just under 16K. It's a balance. I love our SRW Ram, but would not want a dually or larger for a daily driver. My wife has had both knees replaced. With the power steps, it is easier for her to get in and out our Ram that it was the Jeep we towed behind the Newmar. With our current setup, there is only the one engine to maintain and at lower cost.

Some of the setup differences are due to campground layout. Both have water, sewer, electric, but the location of the connections vary (as does the experience of the camper). That location difference affects how you need to position your rig within the site. With hydraulic levelers, actual setup of the coach/trailer is not too different. Then, the biggest difference comes to disconnecting/parking the toad or the tow vehicle. Once you get used to it, it can go quickly. My typical setup time is less than half an hour. With the Unified tow brake setup on the Newmar/Jeep flat-tow combination, that was similar. Pulling out all of your lifestyle accessories on the inside can take longer than setting up the outside.

Out of curiosity I looked to see the size of the RV market. In 2014, there were 357,000 units sold in the US. Apparently there longevity is very good as they also estimate that over 9 million households own an RV.

By comparison, 532,000 recreational boats were sold in the US in 2013. 15.8 million boats were estimated in use in the US in 2014.

Now the vast majority of recreational boats are not cruisers and not capable of overnight trips so the number that you could compare to RV's would be much smaller and considerably fewer "sleep overnight" boats than RV's.

So the facilities for RV's, the information for RV owners is wide spread and very good. The numbers above are before you even consider the number of campers in the country.

Camping World and Marcus Lemonis are promoting that market well too from Nascar Racing to their Good Sam Club which seems to be very much their equivalent of Boat US. One huge different. Good Sam has over 1.6 million members vs. Boat US of just over 500,000.

Both industries were hit hard in 2008-2009 but both are definitely thriving now.