Midnight Re-boarding, can you? Alone

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This is the scariest thread I have ever read... Now I have another thing to work out on the new boat.

TBH, given the set of circumstances laid out, I would be long gone. Ladder lives in bilge, nothing really to grab, nothing really to step on to boost up to swim platform... yadd, yadda, yadda. I guess we're never leaving the dock ever again.
 
This is the scariest thread I have ever read... Now I have another thing to work out on the new boat.

TBH, given the set of circumstances laid out, I would be long gone. Ladder lives in bilge, nothing really to grab, nothing really to step on to boost up to swim platform... yadd, yadda, yadda. I guess we're never leaving the dock ever again.

Wifey B: Well, if you're goin' to go skinny dippin' you need a way back. All it takes is a very minor little change and you'll be covered for most situations. Rope, Ladder, Alarm, Flotation Device. Many ways to address. And just care in what you do.
 
We continue to learn and evaluate and hopefully can do it effectively without fear taking hold. I have never gone out in the ocean alone, single handed. Many do. On the lake though, from the age of 13 to 30, probably 95% of my time was alone. It's not about eliminating risk as that's not something that is possible. It's about managing those risks so they are at a level we are comfortable with.
 
Interesting, great comments and thought yet 4 pages with no discussion on "Emergency Re-boarding Systems" I was hoping for some experience regarding what others use.

Any thoughts to these?

Marine Emergency Ladders on Sale
 
I've just never grasped not changing with the times. Perhaps it is because I've depended on technology where you have to evolve constantly. We embrace changes that are possible. I try to analyze any resistance I have to change and decide whether it really makes sense. If it's just frivolous then who cares and I think most think of peeing overboard being that way, but then the evidence points to the inherent danger and that would change my view on it. On the lake, we never wore life jackets of any type. When we first started coastal cruising we didn't find the thought of doing so pleasant. We shopped and shopped for the most comfortable inflatables and others we could find. There are now conditions in which we put them on without hesitation. We still don't like them, but we realize the importance. I understand peeing over the side of a 14' jon boat in less than three feet of water. I don't understand though how that should lead to going out on deck alone at night to pee over the side of a boat with waves and current, no one on watch, and the risk of going over.

2 things...
1. Many of us have changed with the times...what the heck does that have to do with peeing overboard? What new rules are in effect????...if anything...3 year olds want to pee outdoors...:socool:
2. Peeing overboard offshore? That is exactly where peeing overboard was probably learned. No heads within 30 miles at full speed. The amount that people on TF don't understand is just a lack of exposure to the almost limitless amount of differences in boaters, equipment, likes and dislikes, morals, drinking habits, tool boxes....

Should I go on like some who have a strong opinion yet little experience? :D


Despite some posts...I think more guys drown with their zippers up than dow......if they can prove it the other way...fine, I would love to see the actual stats.
 
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2 things...
1. Many of us have changed with the times...what the heck does that have to do with peeing overboard? .

The times changing was in direct response to the statement about people learning to pee overboard when young and on boats with no head. I think all the boats on here do have heads.

I have no idea about zippers up or down or percentage of drownings due to peeing. Regardless, I know that to go to the original scenario which involved going on deck at night alone to pee overboard and subsequently falling overboard, it seems to me an unnecessary risk. I've still not heard any good reason for it. If I'm missing that, I apologize, but peeing over the side or off the swim step has just never crossed my mind except when discussed here.
 
Interesting, great comments and thought yet 4 pages with no discussion on "Emergency Re-boarding Systems" I was hoping for some experience regarding what others use.

Any thoughts to these?

Marine Emergency Ladders on Sale

We had an emergency type ladder on our sailboat. What a PIA! It was like climbing a rope ladder, as you try to climb up on it, it wants to go horizontal. Maybe a teenager yes. Against a solid surface is it was a little easier but it would not be my first choice.

http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1|7504|2290202|2290206&id=1343784

Our swim platform is 8-10 inches off the water. Lena and I can pull ourselves up on to it easily. We do have a ladder that folds underneath. Guests like it.
 

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Interesting, great comments and thought yet 4 pages with no discussion on "Emergency Re-boarding Systems" I was hoping for some experience regarding what others use.

Any thoughts to these?

Marine Emergency Ladders on Sale

What, and end a silly argument? I have one of those. I often festoon lifelines from my cleats bow to stern as well when I'm at anchor. Handy for swimmers and kayakers during the day, and apparently urinating with impunity at night.
 
Interesting, great comments and thought yet 4 pages with no discussion on "Emergency Re-boarding Systems" I was hoping for some experience regarding what others use.

Any thoughts to these?

Marine Emergency Ladders on Sale

I would say two things about most of those. First, they require someone to let them down or set them up. That's why they haven't been mentioned in this discussion. This was man overboard and no one on deck aware scenario. Second, I think those that are regular ladders with sturdy steps could be useful. I had boat ladders like them long ago on the lake. Those that are rope and webbing and other things, many would find very difficult to climb, especially when already exhausted.

Seems to me the ideal solution is some form of ladder that is accessible from the water, easy to get in position and easy to climb. That still may not help the person in this situation. Added to that some type rope they could grab to get to that ladder might help.

Prevention is still the best plan.
 
You hang the ladder from the gunwhale prior to nocturnal activities. I hang mine when at anchor, alone or not.
 
Interesting, great comments and thought yet 4 pages with no discussion on "Emergency Re-boarding Systems" I was hoping for some experience regarding what others use.

Any thoughts to these?

Marine Emergency Ladders on Sale

Sure for some events, deployable devices like them in the link have value

But this subject is not a one piece of gear fix issue. I have many more tools in the tool box for various fixes

My primary go to is my tender behind or beside my boat. Yes I can board from the water in the middle of the night with broken ribs and the wind knocked out of me

I also carry several ladders for different fixes. Some easy to use, carry around deploy. I also have a chain, wood boarding ladder I deploy when anchored.

Dockside I have used extention ladders to assist folkout onto a dock.

I have also ggotten into the cold water to assist someone needing out of the water.

This is not a one fix fix. Be safe and aware.

Even a whistle can bring assistance to you for help just to get someone out of the water.

Just some thoughts.
 
We do have a ladder that folds underneath. Guests like it.
I like that arrangement, Larry. Do you think something like that would work with a slat-style teak swimstep like the ones used on Grand Banks? I would be concerned about strength, and drilling holes through the teak slats is a good way to weaken them.

For example I secured our Weaver Snap Davits to our swim step with upper and lower braces that are clamped to each other across the width (fore and aft, not side to side) of the swimstep through the gaps between the slats; no holes were drilled through the swim-step itself.
 
most teak platforms could hold a ladder...I tossed my platform because it was so bad...but the ladder was still attached and could handle over 200 pounds out of the water with no damage.


if platform suspect, teak, aluminum, stainless straps on top can be thru-bolted as backing plates.
 
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The times changing was in direct response to the statement about people learning to pee overboard when young and on boats with no head. I think all the boats on here do have heads.

I have no idea about zippers up or down or percentage of drownings due to peeing. Regardless, I know that to go to the original scenario which involved going on deck at night alone to pee overboard and subsequently falling overboard, it seems to me an unnecessary risk. I've still not heard any good reason for it. If I'm missing that, I apologize, but peeing over the side or off the swim step has just never crossed my mind except when discussed here.

My point was they are comfy and may enjoy doing it ...even though their big boats are now big enough to have heads.

All day offshore on my assistance towboat that didn't have a head brought up the issue...especially when pounding through a sea....so yes side decks and scuppers were fair game. Fortunately Shamrocks are so wet of a boat that I could have peed ion the pilothouse roof and the spray would have doused it in seconds....:D

No good reason to do it...and.... unless rough, no reason not to if you and the boat are in harmony. :thumb:

Many here must not have had to work in hazardous situations if peeing overboard on a large boat is an issue...john boats, dingys and canoes are a different story. :D


I have an electric winch on my mast so others of lesser stature could lower the cable and hook to me if getting on the swim platform or up on deck was not possible.
 
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most teak platforms could hold a ladder...I tossed my platform because it was so bad...but the ladder was still attached and could handle over 200 pounds out of the water with no damage.


Good to know, thanks much.
 
The Coot's stern gate becomes a ladder when deployed, but that's rare.



 
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In my strong opinion, you need a permanent, not an "emergency" ladder you can deploy from the water.
People somehow tend to imagine these type of incidents happening in benign seas and weather, when almost by definition they do not. "Oh yeah, I can kip my self up right on to that swim platform.. no problem.."
 
Pee over the side? At night? When I have two working heads? You gotta be sh!tting me. (OK, that was a bad pun!). IMHO it's not worth the risk. That's why they put pee platforms, err, I mean swim platforms on boats.


Seriously, I can't imagine why I would pee over the side, especially at night. That being said, if I fell overboard I do have a swim ladder that's beneath the swim platform and it's easy to pull it out when you're in the water.


As far as being overboard in cold water, a few years back I got some lines caught in both props. I spent 35 minutes beneath the boat, at night, in October, in 53* water with a Maglite between my legs and a steak knife in my teeth. Oh, and did I mention I had no mask or wet suit.


After I got the lines clear I was able to reboard the boat, fire up the engines and cruise back home. No hypothermia, no more than normal confused brain, etc.


An extra layer of padding (OK, it's fat!) really helps.
 
...Do you think something like that would work with a slat-style teak swimstep like the ones used on Grand Banks? I would be concerned about strength, and drilling holes through the teak slats is a good way to weaken them.

For example I secured our Weaver Snap Davits to our swim step with upper and lower braces that are clamped to each other across the width (fore and aft, not side to side) of the swimstep through the gaps between the slats; no holes were drilled through the swim-step itself.

Our platform is solid so the spacing, strength/loading wasn't critical. Center to center the ladder width is 14" with the deck backing plate (2) diameter is 2.75" by 3.0". How's your spacing?
 
Our platform is solid so the spacing, strength/loading wasn't critical. Center to center the ladder width is 14" with the deck backing plate (2) diameter is 2.75" by 3.0". How's your spacing?

I'd need to measure the next time we're at the boat. I'm guessing each strip is about 2 inches wide with a slightly narrower slot between them. If the four mounting bolts pictured in your photos would straddle a strip, two on each side, it would be easy enough to make a "sandwich" of teak boards or stainless straps that could be clamped to the swimstep in the same manner as the boards that hold our Weaver Snap Davits. If the pairs of bolts are too close together to straddle a strip I'd have to drill though the strip and I won't do that. Not on a 43-year-old swim step.:)

A project for when we have more time is to build a new, wider (fore and aft) teak swimstep for the boat with an improved design over what American Marine did in 1973. Then we could incorporate a way of attaching a ladder like yours into the design. But that project's a ways off yet.

I'll check out the catalogs to see what the attachment bolt spacing is on ladders like yours.
 
I know this thread is premised on having fallen overboard in terrible conditions... however... the most important need is to not fall off the boat. Therefore and because of that need, I am extremely pleased that our Tollycraft has safety railing that surrounds every exterior location. I know that Mark's Coot is also excellently set up similarly,


In addition to getting back aboard via ladder and pull rope etc... again I say; the most important need is to NOT fall off the boat.
 
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The times changing was in direct response to the statement about people learning to pee overboard when young and on boats with no head. I think all the boats on here do have heads.

I have no idea about zippers up or down or percentage of drownings due to peeing. Regardless, I know that to go to the original scenario which involved going on deck at night alone to pee overboard and subsequently falling overboard, it seems to me an unnecessary risk. I've still not heard any good reason for it. If I'm missing that, I apologize, but peeing over the side or off the swim step has just never crossed my mind except when discussed here.

So you don't go out on deck at night?.... in good weather I typically do a round the pilothouse behind the Portuguese bridge walls every 30 minutes or so.. it keeps me awake, allows me to see and smell/hear stuff I cannot from the bridge. Personally I don't like to wake my crew when they are off watch by using the head or turning on lights.. just to pee. I do have rules to follow as to where one goes to lessen the possibility of falling overboard so it is really quite safe.
It could also stem from the fact that at home.. on 5 acres I get to do the same thing without fear of offending the neighbors.
HOLLYWOOD
 
So you don't go out on deck at night?....
HOLLYWOOD

I don't go out on deck at night to pee over the side.

Note also the OP was referring to anchored and getting up out of bed to go to the deck. If I see the need to get out of bed and go walk around the deck under those circumstances I'm going to wear a flotation device and/or get someone else as an observer.
 
Art just brought up or repeated the most important point of all....DONT GO OVERBOARD!!!.......


Good conditions, bad conditions, checking the decks or peeing....


Just because you have flotation on or even have flotation AND tethered to the boat doesn't mean that if alone and no way back on board in those conditions you won't die of hypothermia strapped to your boat.


These threads tend to over simplify or over complicate reality. Most people with a bit of experience tend to risk manage OK.


Do they bat a 1000?


No, even the best don't... so taking risks but minimizing the hazards results in the same outcomes as taking no risks it seems.


Much like how you risk manage your whole life extends to the boat too.... just being aware of what can get you is as important as anything....but the moral of the story is...if you DO go out on deck and are alone...at any time or anyplace...you better have a dang good self recovery setup and be in good enough physical shape to use it in some extreme conditions.


Of just accept the fact that you might die out there.:D

Oh yeah....wearing a small PLB on you or your jacket might be a good idea too! :thumb:
 
I know this thread is premised on having fallen overboard in terrible conditions... however... the most important need is to not fall off the boat. Therefore and because of that need, I am extremely pleased that our Tollycraft has safety railing that surrounds every exterior location. I know that Mark's Coot is also excellently set up similarly,

In addition to getting back aboard via ladder and pull rope etc... again I say; the most important need is to NOT fall off the boat.

Actually Art, the premise of the thread is "can you get back on your boat by yourself" I threw in some adverse conditions for dissussion.

I really question whether or not somone is going to get up in the middle of the night get dressed put on a personal locating device, a personal flotation device, connect themselves to safety line just to look around the anchorage, if so you honestly are either super safe or paranoid, relax a bit and enjoy anchoring out.

Depending on my proximity to other boats and the temp. I may or may not put shorts or sweatpants on. I enjoy the deck late at night in a nice anchorage looking at the moon and the stars in the peace and serenity of nature. Perhaps I am weird, perhaps I can't afford a marina every night.


Like I said the real promise was simple, if you fell off your boat can you get back on without anybody else helping. I question my ability to do so and I'm looking into ways to solve that.

Big strong sturdy rails, safety lines, not going out on deck, not falling in in the first place, all these are great ideas however not what the thread was based on.

You know the old saying "a ship is always safe in the harbor but that's not what ships were built for".

I threw in the other conditions to add some urgency to getting out and the broken wrist was to question how easy it would it be to climb out.

I envy the setups many of you have, they are well thought out and would work even under the conditions I gave. A platform close to the water with an easy to use ladder seems to be key.

Thanks again for all of the input,you guys are great.
 
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The boat has a swim platform with the original equipment ladder. The lower ladder segment (platform elevation down to 2-3' below waterline when extended) is hinged with a friction hinge that maintains the position it's left in. At anchor, the ladder is always extended for reboarding after an unintended swim.
 
Thanks again for all of the input,you guys are great.

Greatness lies with the OP to this safety-thought provoking thread - i.e. YOU - Scott... :thumb:

The premise of multiple choice terrible conditions you mentioned as a selection, once haven fallen off boat, and the fear-factor of oh-shat... how would I ever get back aboard solo; sure got my asssss to pucker when I thought the entire scene through under selections you offered. It was the broken wrist choice that really made me wonder if I could survive. No matter how well railed any boat's exterior decks may be there is still chance of falling off.

Thanks for this very scary yet safety-thought inducing life saving exercise. I've already discussed with wife some small yet important get-back-aboard-solo improvements.

I too love to go outside on decks in dead of night and spend sometimes an hour or more to star gaze, check anchor, make sure anchor light is still blazing, view general surroundings... and yes, pee off side if I damn well feel like it! That said, I do not go out specifically for a pee... I do use the head when in boat at night.

Different strokes for different folks! May everyone remain safe aboard boat! Excellent thread, thanks!! :dance: :speed boat:
 
I participated in the rescue of a fellow who fell between his inflatable and the boat. He never knew how it happened. What happened is this:

It was daytime (middle of the day) and I was sitting in my galley. I heard some bozo yelling "hello" a far piece away. Finally I got up and looked around. I spotted an extra white ball at the bow of the boat moored across the anchorage from me. Binocs confirmed it was our Bob.

First thing: I got on the VHF and said Maverick's Bob was in the water. I got immediate radio confirmation.

(We had a radio net and I cannot stress enough how TOTALLY GREAT that was. It gave me a sense of friends at hand and support one dinghy away.)

Next I got in Algae and headed for Bob with a spare life jacket. He was without and I knew I could not get him out but I thought the life preserver would buy him time until the fellows could come.

While about 1/4 of the way to Bob's boat a closer boat started up and headed his way. I knew Saphira was in a far better place to help so returned to Seaweed.

In the meantime In Anneoin was on the radio to Coast Guard JAX. She'd seen the Coasties launching a couple of gun boats for a Submarine escort so we had young help at hand. When the VHF to JAX wasn't productive she signaled the kids on shore what the problem was and where.

They pushed the throttles full tilt and had Bob hoisted out of the water in less than a minute.

Lessons Learned:
#1) Having a boarding ladder safely stowed in the cockpit locker "for when I go cruising" was stupid. That same afternoon it went over the side and was firmly attached to the stanchions.

Later Katja made him a great little bag so it stayed out of the water and was easily deployed.

#2) Bob didn't realize he could not reboard his deflatable. Physically it was not possible.

#3) It was cold, he was not wearing any floatation and that could have been far worse. Even if he made it to shore he'd have been cold and wet. Brrr.

#4) Of all the boats in the anchorage only two of us had boarding ladders accessible from the water. That was In Anneoin and Seaweed.

I suspect one of the fellows thought because he could climb over when younger he could do so fifty pounds heavier and twenty years older. Thankfully he never tested the theory because that could have been ugly.

Bob had one of those collapsing rope ladders with the red plastic steps shown on Defender, West, and other places. They slide very nicely under the boat and are a pain to climb even when all is well.

In my view they are a good idea in theory, better than nothing, barely.

Ladders that angle out make boarding much easier than my up and down ladder.

Scottie's question is one anyone aboard should consider. The "someone else is always aboard" doesn't wash. I've seen folks float items behind the boat to aid in reboarding. A towel for the cat to climb has been seen too.

As for going on deck in the middle of O'dark-thirty, but of course. That's what I do anyway. After all I have to check on my stars and like watching them march across the sky. The fresh air is wonderful and listening to the night sounds, well, it's spiritual. There is nothing between me and Thee and I do some of my best pondering out there.

When the Kidlets were younger we'd sit out back on the seawall (owned a house then) and "fish" ... mostly though we talked. There is an anonymity in the dark and I suspect they told me far more than they might have done in the bright lights. That's why sitting on the bow is good for me. It's like I can touch the memories....

I've rambled. I'll hush now.

Being able to reboard without assistance is critical and is one of the items that needs priority. Inexpensive solutions exist. Velcro is easy to open from the water (have a long string to pull) so you can keep your solution free from barnacles and accessible too.

Aboard Seaweed I'm pondering a second ladder solution. If Algae is on the swim platform my ladder is inaccessible. That is unacceptable so I do a lot of dinghy bottom scraping. Ugh. There's got to be a better way.

Am considering a 12" by 24" piece of wood tied at the four corners (think enlarged swing)

Lowered it would snug up against the flat side of the hull before it turns for the bottom/bottom. From there (about 8" below the waterline) I could get up I think. Or at least almost totally out of the water. A fender tied next to the swing would be the final step up to the side deck. It would not be ideal. It might work though.

Still pondering... while I look fora scrap of board. :)

P.S. - The only other person I know who has fallen in also was like Bob. It happened so fast he has no idea what went wrong. That is probably the biggest issue for the gent. He was in no danger however the speed with which he hit the water (and the language!!!) was rapid.

As for WHY he has no clue. It shook him up -- the standard questions "am I getting too old for this?" and "what if?" plague his psyche. He's a sailor so is working it out silently but I've seen him sitting on his balcony staring at his sailboat....
 
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The very fact we're then discussing them falling overboard and not making it back shows further how totally illogical it is. I guess they're the same ones who on land go outside and pee in the bushes.

Doesn't everyone?
 

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