Interesting boats

Seaspray said:

The footage originally came from the owner a few years ago, some might find it interesting. Short steep seas, tidal area, 40 knots or so.

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Rides pretty good downwind/quartering sea conditions.. I would not want to be going the other direction for sure. Interesting things though.. no overhead handholds, straight back seat cushions, nasty stainless hook behind helm waiting to poke your eye out.. but no boat is perfect.
HOLLYWOOD

Works fine the other way, but you need to slow down not to launch the hull off the waves when it is that short and steep. She is pretty light and stays on top.

Fit-out is pretty basic around the table indeed, owner/builder decides...

She never needed overhead handholds no matter what and she has logged thousands of miles in all weather by now. She has got amazing dynamic stability. In fact you can always stand up in the wheelhouse, the motion is never violent. In normal cruising conditions, you can walk all around the cabin and after deck without even hanging onto anything.
Completely different stability characteristics than the deeper heavier boats.

Seaspray said:

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She never needed overhead handholds no matter what and she has logged thousands of miles in all weather by now. She has got amazing dynamic stability. In fact you can always stand up in the wheelhouse, the motion is never violent. In normal cruising conditions, you can walk all around the cabin and after deck without even hanging onto anything.
Completely different stability characteristics than the deeper heavier boats.

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Any chance you have some bottom shots? Your ballast/stability is an interesting subject particularly as you indicated she is 'light'. The video reflects how our boat now rides after ballasting. But it had to be done to achieve a similar ride as your video depicts.
Thanks,
Al-Ketchikan

Al said:

Any chance you have some bottom shots? Your ballast/stability is an interesting subject particularly as you indicated she is 'light'. The video reflects how our boat now rides after ballasting. But it had to be done to achieve a similar ride as your video depicts.
Thanks,
Al-Ketchikan

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There are views of the boat dried up on this page: Wild South: layout and practical consideration on board a cruising motor yacht | Nordkyn Design

Not a lot of boat underneath the water. She is only 4.5 tonnes / 10000lbs displacement half-loaded. No ballast at all and fully self-righting. Ideally motor yachts shouldn't carry any ballast, it leads to paying good money for dragging dead weight through the water.
The objective at the time was making a really good low-powered, comfortable and economical seaboat. Getting it right is a real challenge, but there it worked and it has been a lot of fun.

In normal sea conditions, she rides almost as if she was on active stabilisers, she hardly rolls at all. What you see on the footage is extreme in terms of motion.

I have great memories of sailing up your neck of the woods some years back. Came down all the way from Attu in the Aleutians.

Kind regards,

Eric

That boat with the crane tucked in the stack looks like it needs a bulb on its bow, it seems to drop the bow a long way in pretty smooth seas?

here is an interesting vessel. lot's of fuel tankage. the weakness of the CAD may make this a good buy for someone on the E. coast

yachtworld listing:

YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale

bshanafelt said:

here is an interesting vessel. lot's of fuel tankage. the weakness of the CAD may make this a good buy for someone on the E. coast

yachtworld listing:

YachtWorld.com Boats and Yachts for Sale

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Very interesting!!! A lot of innovative thinking and individuality.

I love the way he mounted the iron compensators. Think I'll steal that idea for my boat as I have some blocks of teak lying around.

I've watched that boat for what seems like years. Like the dry exhaust, Deere engine, nice engine room size. Scared of the unknown construction, painting and prepping, and the extreme oakyness of the interior.

Cool boat though! And it seems cheap!

One of those Navy launch that are spoken to often on the TF

FF and Eric have knowledge on these rigs. This looks well kept.
Al-Marben Pocket CRUISER



Monk Bridgedeck Cruiser

Seaspray said:

There are views of the boat dried up on this page: Wild South: layout and practical consideration on board a cruising motor yacht | Nordkyn Design

Not a lot of boat underneath the water. She is only 4.5 tonnes / 10000lbs displacement half-loaded. No ballast at all and fully self-righting. Ideally motor yachts shouldn't carry any ballast, it leads to paying good money for dragging dead weight through the water.
The objective at the time was making a really good low-powered, comfortable and economical seaboat. Getting it right is a real challenge, but there it worked and it has been a lot of fun.

In normal sea conditions, she rides almost as if she was on active stabilisers, she hardly rolls at all. What you see on the footage is extreme in terms of motion.

I have great memories of sailing up your neck of the woods some years back. Came down all the way from Attu in the Aleutians.

Kind regards,

Eric

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Eric, Sorry, normally an email is given telling me that you or others have posted. May have missed it. I am impressed. Surprised that Eric (Manyboats) has not responded and in a positive mode. That there is no ballast is surprising watching the video. As you are aware, our boat has 1500# built into the keel and I have added 1400# and a heaver engine (500# additional) to settle it down. I think that I am close to your stability and motion now. I understand the 'Dragging around the weight' but it had to happen! At 1.3 GPH fuel burn the weight factor is livable.
This boat of yours just looks slippery. The simplicity of the layout including the engine area is desirable. Did I miss the your hull speed and your cruise speed?
Thanks for sharing the photos, trust others enjoyed as I have.

Al-27'Marben-Pocket CRUISER

Al said:

FF and Eric have knowledge on these rigs. This looks well kept.
Al-Marben Pocket CRUISER



Monk Bridgedeck Cruiser

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Gorgeous...from a distance

MurrayM said:

Gorgeous...from a distance

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Yep, for sure. I do have a 58 hp Westenbeke with a 2.5:1 gear that would fit that Chrysler. Too much old wood boat for this ancient mariner!!

Al

Seaspray said:

There are views of the boat dried up on this page: Wild South: layout and practical consideration on board a cruising motor yacht | Nordkyn Design


I have great memories of sailing up your neck of the woods some years back. Came down all the way from Attu in the Aleutians.

Kind regards,

Eric

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Eric- I have the data, 36'x12'x3' 8.8 knots (10 max)

Al

Al,
Been out to the hospital doing a hernia. But it's 3:49 and I can't sleep.
My kind of boat indeed. I think I know the hull despite the fact there's no pics of it. Strange how people can put photographs in a boat add w/o even one of the most important part .. the hull.
If I guessed the boat right she was built in the south w Cypress over oak. This one lists spruce. Easy to work w but readily rots. Somebody probably dos'nt know wood from wood probably. As a Navy hull she was built to Navy specs so ??
Al would you put a fuel injected and turbocharged engine in a 37 Plymouth? I'd like the Westerbeke but it would destroy it's originality. Of course she's already bastardized by the conversion. One couldn't lug around at 1400rpm either. The Westerbeke would need to do some work here. That Chrysler is more power.
Most boats in this area (and the 360 phone prefix says is is) are marketed by Wolf Yacht Sales but I see no sign of them. I'd sure like to go look .. w my wallet home.

Al said:

Eric, Sorry, normally an email is given telling me that you or others have posted. May have missed it. I am impressed. Surprised that Eric (Manyboats) has not responded and in a positive mode. That there is no ballast is surprising watching the video. As you are aware, our boat has 1500# built into the keel and I have added 1400# and a heaver engine (500# additional) to settle it down. I think that I am close to your stability and motion now. I understand the 'Dragging around the weight' but it had to happen! At 1.3 GPH fuel burn the weight factor is livable.
This boat of yours just looks slippery. The simplicity of the layout including the engine area is desirable. Did I miss the your hull speed and your cruise speed?
Thanks for sharing the photos, trust others enjoyed as I have.

Al-27'Marben-Pocket CRUISER

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I hear you about ballasting... Stability and roll are influenced by three key factors: the stability curve, the inertia around the longitudinal axis of the boat and hull appendages. A perfectly stable boat wouldn't follow the wave slope transversely and therefore wouldn't roll.

Making a low, deep, narrow hull with a very low VCG is one way of approaching this, it would ride a bit like an ocean buoy. Unfortunately, this is not very desirable from many other angles...
The other way is tuning the three parameters so the hull doesn't respond to the kind of wave encounter frequencies commonly found at sea and then you can get away without any ballast, but the whole design needs to support this from the start. Stability at small angles is much more about hull shape than centre of gravity.
In the previous footage, at some point you can see her getting attacked on the beam by a fairly steep one, rise, ride it and drop in the next through almost without rolling. It doesn't always work perfectly, now and then you still get a bit of a roll, but it doesn't go far.

That boat was a proof of concept. The superstructure was largely created by the builder in the workshop and we had many discussions about the skinny roof top etc.
Over the years, considerations about changing the look of it, giving it a Pacific NW look with a stepped wheelhouse and what not came up many times. It is all easily achievable, but it takes someone who really wants to build one.
Two years ago we sketched a 36' version with a steeper stem (to make it fall just short of the 11m mark for marinas in Europe), extended and slightly lowered cabin, low bulwarks raising the sheer a little, but still exactly the same underwater body. Someone wanted to build a run of them with a yard in Poland etc.
It progressed until some investment was needed and then stalled... for now. Maybe one day!

I have attached a little more footage we had cut two years ago showing the boat near hull speed from a wharf. It came from an older video tape, maybe a couple of years after launching.

Best regards,

Eric

Eric, The boat sure runs flat. No heel on the turns at all. Very nice aft breakaway from the stern. Clean. This boat would serve well here in Southeast Alaska. Particularly as the cabin and aft canopy fits right into what is required for the weather. I am guessing that it may be a bit wet bucking. You did say that slowing down to match the wave conditions served well. Your description of a higher straighter stem would help I suppose. With the length there should be little hobby horse when bucking as you span two waves (I am guessing from the waves in the first video)
I know I am happy that the Marben has a ton of shear that allows a very dry entry into 2-3 foot waves at cruise speed-6.5 knots+. We do a bit of hobby horse because of the short hull and not spanning two waves. Again that is where the ballast has settled the boat down.
It would be really interesting to run both boats alongside. I believe the performance would be surprisingly close.
Thanks for the additional video.
Al-Ketchikan-Marben Pocket CRUISER

Al,

The freeboard forward is 5' 4'' (1.60m), so chop is not an issue. She keeps up with 45' displacement fishing boats, because they run into their hull speed around 9 knots, and pretty well leaves behind all displacement boats in a following sea.
She can average over 12 knots on the run with a bit of a sea helping, staying just in front of the waves for quite long periods. You don't need a big wave, just one that is fast enough.

If it is really hollow and steep and you punch too fast, you can launch the hull out of the water and slam onto the next wave. The sea doesn't slow her down much, you have to remain sensible and pull back. It is not a heavy boat and it is quite slippery.

If it is very windy, best conditions for speed and comfort are out at sea in the deeper water, where the sea is longer.

I would love to have one up your way to cruise the Inside Passage, Prince William Sound, Kodiak and the Peninsula. It is all well within range.

Eric

Seaspray said:

Al,

The freeboard forward is 5' 4'' (1.60m), so chop is not an issue. She keeps up with 45' displacement fishing boats, because they run into their hull speed around 9 knots, and pretty well leaves behind all displacement boats in a following sea.
She can average over 12 knots on the run with a bit of a sea helping, staying just in front of the waves for quite long periods. You don't need a big wave, just one that is fast enough.

Eric

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Eric, Okay- From this we better travel a bit apart! Anything over 7.5 knots and we think about putting on the water skis!
You go on ahead, we'll show up eventually.

Been fun trading post. Cheers,
Al- 27 Marben Pocket CRUISER

Seaspray said:

There are views of the boat dried up on this page: Wild South: layout and practical consideration on board a cruising motor yacht | Nordkyn Design

Not a lot of boat underneath the water. She is only 4.5 tonnes / 10000lbs displacement half-loaded. No ballast at all and fully self-righting. Ideally motor yachts shouldn't carry any ballast, it leads to paying good money for dragging dead weight through the water.
The objective at the time was making a really good low-powered, comfortable and economical seaboat. Getting it right is a real challenge, but there it worked and it has been a lot of fun.

In normal sea conditions, she rides almost as if she was on active stabilisers, she hardly rolls at all. What you see on the footage is extreme in terms of motion.

I have great memories of sailing up your neck of the woods some years back. Came down all the way from Attu in the Aleutians.

Kind regards,

Eric

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Eric (And others) Found this rig on another site. It almost appears to be a big brother to your design. Had you ever come across this rig or similar?
Al

TrawlerCrawler.net • View topic - Winnie the Pooh

Al,


No, never saw this one before. I can see why you are saying that, but in that size (46') I would have half the displacement and a 10+ knots cruising speed.


There is an interesting view of it on a related blog:





At least it has a reasonably fine entry and it is not dragging the transom in the water, but hull shapes like this have a very steep rise in the resistance curve approaching hull speed.
They can appear economical at slow speeds, but you need to be happy with what you get there and 7.5 knots cruising for a boat that size is pretty slow really.


For any given type of displacement hull, resistance and displacement are almost directly correlated. If you want long range and economy, the first thing you do is get rid of dead weight. Then you suddenly need less fuel, so smaller tanks, which makes the boat lighter again. Next, the engine can be smaller because it has become easier to push, and the boat gets lighter again...


With Wild South, we had decided to draw the line at 4500kg / 10000lbs, because we were concerned she would bounce around too much. These days she steams around with low tanks most of the time, because the issue never materialised and the weight saving makes her faster and more economical.
Also she had started with a 3-53 GM and later changed to a marinised Nissan LD28. Not only it made the boat quite a bit lighter, but it actually improved the motion.


Eric

This boat sold awhile back I think. It was an interesting conversion. John Deere main. No generator. Small window AC in the master ran off the inverter. Kind of cool in a utilitarian way.

Winnie the Pooh is kind of "famous" to those of us that are/were on the T&T email server. It is a sailboat conversion, hence the hull shape.

I went to look at it. I thought it was cool, but the wife didn't share my enthusiasm. ?

I thought it was well done, and the owner was very knowledgable IMO. Why is it "famous"?

Seaspray wrote;
"For any given type of displacement hull, resistance and displacement are almost directly correlated. If you want long range and economy, the first thing you do is get rid of dead weight. Then you suddenly need less fuel, so smaller tanks, which makes the boat lighter again. Next, the engine can be smaller because it has become easier to push, and the boat gets lighter again..."

Thanks for bringing that up ...
Many focus on props, engines and their fuel consumption curves whereas a reduction in vessel weight will probably give better results. Loose 10% disp. loose 10% fuel burn. And the best place to trim weight is while searching for a boat. Just pass up the heavy dogs. And w a smaller boat one looses speed but gains big in fuel economically.

manyboats said:

Seaspray wrote;
"For any given type of displacement hull, resistance and displacement are almost directly correlated. If you want long range and economy, the first thing you do is get rid of dead weight. Then you suddenly need less fuel, so smaller tanks, which makes the boat lighter again. Next, the engine can be smaller because it has become easier to push, and the boat gets lighter again..."

Thanks for bringing that up ...
Many focus on props, engines and their fuel consumption curves whereas a reduction in vessel weight will probably give better results. Loose 10% disp. loose 10% fuel burn. And the best place to trim weight is while searching for a boat. Just pass up the heavy dogs. And w a smaller boat one looses speed but gains big in fuel economically.

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I think what you're talking about is Semi-displacement or planing hull boats. A displacement hull boat efficiency changes only slightly based on weight. Most true displacement hull boats are about as efficient with full fuel as they are nearly empty.

No .. Talking about full displacement boats/hulls.

When I think of how much power power is required to drive a FD hull I'm think'in how much hp per ton of disp will I need. Willy (my boat) has 5 and 3.5 to 4.5 is about right. Trawlers are largely SD boats and I'm quite sure they are not linear in this reguard.

Anyone with a 50+ ton full displacement vessel will tell you that there is hardly any difference in fuel economy or speed between light load and full load.

On Semi-displacement / planing hulls, weight is critical, since you have to transition from displacement to on top of the water and it takes horsepower to do that.

Northern Spy said:

Winnie the Pooh is kind of "famous" to those of us that are/were on the T&T email server. It is a sailboat conversion, hence the hull shape.

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Fast Freds neighbors conversion. Very nicely done. The new owner is probably very happy.

cardude01 said:

I went to look at it. I thought it was cool, but the wife didn't share my enthusiasm. ?

I thought it was well done, and the owner was very knowledgable IMO. Why is it "famous"?

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Mark was a prolific poster on the server.