Do you really need a lower helm?

I have both and in five years I have only used the lower about 4 times. I even removed the wheel and pump from the lower helm to expand the salon. I believe the sight lines are much better higher up. My next purchase of a sundeck trawler I will be looking for no lower helm or one that is unobtrusive as possible.

I love our lower helm! When we were telling friends pre-trawler we wanted a lower helm they said that I'd never use it. Personally, I love it!! I do like the bridge on those hot summer days, etc. but it is so nice to have the option of piloting from down below.

Don't think I would like a trawler without a lower helm.* The option of being out of the weather is why I perfer trawlering over sailing.

The flybridge is nice when conditions are perfect or for taking in the sights.** I think having both is an advantage.** JohnP

I tell you one thing I will say about lower helms- I personally don't understand the point in having one if you don't have an associated cabin door to the foredeck next to the helm. if we did not have cabin doors to provide quick access to the decks I don't know that I would use ours as much.

I agree, and I think most are set up that way.* JohnP

If you have the door, you might as well have the helm because the space inside of the door would be just wasted.

-- Edited by JohnP on Monday 31st of January 2011 10:20:26 AM

We use our flybridge when the weather is nice and the lower helm in our pilothouse when the weather is poor and also for all close work. *

When we looked into buying a trawler we had very strict criteria. *We knew we would be cruising with just the two of us most of the time, so wanted something that would be easy and safe to handle. *We wanted wide decks around the whole boat, a raised pilothouse with doors on both the port and starboard side and an interior staircase from the pilothouse to the flybridge. * We also wanted twin screws and of course, thrusters would be icing on the cake.


Needless to say, these requirements really restricted the kind of boat that we could purchase especially in our more modest price range. *We looked for quite awhile before we found Delia Rosa.... she is an older lady and we still have lots of work to do to bring her back to her former glory but she suits us perfectly!!

So far we have not purchased a boat yet. I have committed to some investment projects for the next year that will keep me tight with time and finances. It seems I always have a pending deal I have to fund. Hopefully about a year from now I will be cashing out and have the time to buy and enjoy my boat. Thanks for all the input on the lower helm. I think I will look for a trawler with the lower helm since both my wife and I don't like to get cold and wet at the same time.

And no, that definitely isn't me in my profile pic!

Yes, I do!!
<===

-- Edited by SeaHorse II on Monday 31st of January 2011 12:11:41 PM

Guess it really depends on where you boat. In the PNW I'm pretty sure having the option is really nice. If you are down south in the warmer areas, you'll spend most of* your time upstairs on the flybridge with a better view and great weather both day and night. Must agree that the lower station makes little sense without the doors for access to the bow. Many of the sedan models have a lower station, but the only access is out to the cockpit. I've always been glad to have* both allowing me the option of where to drive.

My other requirement way to have access from the lower station to the flybridge without going outside. The last thing I* wanted was my first mate walking to the back of the boat out of sight in rough water. I was lucky enough to find that, in a boat I could afford.

Ther are plusses and minuses with every boat. We have a 38' sundeck and have both upper and lower helm in the panhandle of FL. Most of the time we use the upper helm.

Having a lower helm is nice on the days it gets cold. We use our boat all year round. During the holidays we went on a cruise and used it to get out of the marina(unlighted markers and 4am) temp was 25 degrees and ice covered the sundeck. Once into the gulf we retreated below to T-shirts for the whole day. With an upper helm only you could make it liveable with heat and full enclosure.

If it is a good deal and you like the boat go for it. We only used our lower helm about 6 days this year.

Delia Rosa wrote:

We use our flybridge when the weather is nice and the lower helm in our pilothouse when the weather is poor and also for all close work.

Click to expand...

I find it interesting that you choose the lower helm for close work. I do quite the opposite. I find that from the bridge, I can see both ends of the boat. I can't do that from below, and the other side of that is that from the bridge I can communicate better with those on deck or on the dock.*

*

Carey wrote:

Click to expand...

I find it interesting that you choose the lower helm for close work. I do quite the opposite. I find that from the bridge, I can see both ends of the boat. I can't do that from below, and the other side of that is that from the bridge I can communicate better with those on deck or on the dock.*

*
It's a personal preference.* We never drive our boat from the flying bridge because while the view is nice we feel totally disconnected from the boat up there.* And for close-in maneuvering, I find it much easier and more accurate to judge the boat's position from the lower helm that from the upper helm, even though in theory it should be easier from up top where I can see the whole boat.* But it just looks "wrong" to me from up there.* Plus I can be on deck in seconds from the lower helm if I need to be.* Other people can better judge their boat's close-in position from up above.

My wife says I'm a far better driver in the UK than I am here at home and I agree with her.* I've never had a problem or even a learning curve driving on the right side in the UK--- it worked for me from the first time I did it.* I have no idea why the sight picture from that side of the vehicle works better for me than from the left side.* Everybody's different.

*

I run almost exclusively from the flybridge. I don't like the lack of visibility from below even though my lower helm* has pretty good vis as far as trawlers go.

I've used the lower helm only in wet or cold weather.* Otherwise, I'm on the flybridge enjoying the sun, air and view.

Carey wrote :

"I find it interesting that you choose the lower helm for close work. I do quite the opposite. I find that from the bridge, I can see both ends of the boat. I can't do that from below, and the other side of that is that from the bridge I can communicate better with those on deck or on the dock."








You are correct that the visibility from the flybridge is actually better than from the pilothouse, but we still prefer to use the lower helm for close work. **

Dan will drive from up top until we are just approaching the dock and then he scoots down our stairway into the pilothouse to handle the rest of the approach from there. I always handle all the lines but with him at the lower helm,*he can help in an emergency. *We also use*small two way headsets so that we are in constant communication... so far, this system has worked well for us.



-- Edited by Delia Rosa on Monday 31st of January 2011 03:10:31 PM

Personally I think all boats should have a lower helm.

Think about it. How are you going to use your boat?*

If you are a fair weather boater and never go out in the ocean. You are probably right you don't need one.

Get*caught in one storm and you will be wishing to God you had a lower helm.

The Fly bridge is what it is. You are up topside out in the weather.

I would reverse the question. Do you really need a fly bridge.

SD

*

Someone lit the roman candle here !

I have me an upper helm and lower helm, very nice, however nothing suitable at the lower helm to sit on.
Well ! The boat did come with rotating kitchen stools but somehow they don't really look or feel the part.

Now a Stidd is very nice, but i am not so sure as a trawler guy i would look right perched up on a Stidd, i am not royalty.

My Question is what else is our there that would be suitable it would seem that every manufacturer has a different helm Chair criteria, could it be that the ultimate helm chair is an egg crate ?

Donald & Mavis
Mainship 400
Andromeda .
Bermuda

SOMERS wrote:

Someone lit the roman candle here !

I have me an upper helm and lower helm, very nice, however nothing suitable at the lower helm to sit on.
Well ! The boat did come with rotating kitchen stools but somehow they don't really look or feel the part.

Now a Stidd is very nice, but i am not so sure as a trawler guy i would look right perched up on a Stidd, i am not royalty.

My Question is what else is our there that would be suitable it would seem that every manufacturer has a different helm Chair criteria, could it be that the ultimate helm chair is an egg crate ?

Donald & Mavis
Mainship 400
Andromeda .
Bermuda

Click to expand...

The way I see it if you are like most of the respondents to this thread you will usually be up on the fly bridge.

If the weather gets snotty you will be at the lower helm and if you are down there (Becaus of the weather)* you will probably want to be standing anyway.

I think that is why so many of the trawler type boats will have a moveable helm seat.* So you can get it out of the way when not in use.

SD

*

I use both. I have no sense that I use one more than the other.
In good weather, where the visibility is good (most of the summer cruising, despite the horrid local weather that others have reported) I tend to be up top, unless it is too cold. In poor visibility, when I need the radar and/or the computer display for the GPS/charts, or when it is cold out, down below.
I used to dock exclusively from up top, but in the last few years I have forced myself to become more proficient at knowing where the ends and other side are from below, so now I can do it equally well from below. The worst was docking port side to, from below. I would check my distance off, thinking I had just a fender's width, to find I had more than my wife could safely jump - more than 3 times too much. That took a few tries to get the hang of it.

Well I see no real use for an upper helm on any boat under 50'. Quite a few boats have poor visibility fwd and almost force one to go topside. The Willard 36 is such a boat and I'll never buy one for that reason. And if I had one I'd remove the FB and raise the lower helm/wheelhouse about 2'. That would give me a huge engine room that would be far better than a FB. I offer this photo (again) as evidence that there is someone here in Alaska that dosn't seem to need a lower helm. Just for laughs.

Old Stone wrote:
As to upper or lower, I can't see my stern from either station, so that is why I am getting a rear camera set up.

Click to expand...

What kind of rear camera setup are you planning?

*

Old Stone, we have been thinking about doing a similar camera installation to improve viz.... I will be interested to hear what you finally decide to buy and how it all works out!

Carl,
Are you using a laptop for your GPS? If so, you may want to think about running USB cable and a simple webcam for your back up camera. Clarity can be pretty good if you get a good quality cam and it requires no additional power plug in except for the USB into the laptop. If you are placing it in the covered cockpit area out of the weather it should work pretty well and be a lot easier to install.

Woodsong, re your suggestion to Carl.... we don't use our laptop for our GPS, but it would certainly be simple to try out the webcam idea on our laptop... We have a small webcam and a 60 foot long USB cable so that could be a really simple hookup... can't wait to try it out next spring! *

In the meantime, I just checked the one Carl mentioned.... I will be looking forward to hearing how it all works out.


-- Edited by Delia Rosa on Monday 31st of January 2011 05:09:52 PM

Delia,
That is how I am setting up my engine room camera- long USB cable and a webcam! I've dry fit it all and tested it in the slip and it seemed to work great- just need to make a permanent mount for it. Maybe I'm just cheap though....I like the low cost and the fact you don't need additional power or another screen (for us since we use laptop for our GPS).

Anyway- see if it works. Sometimes the simplest solution is the best.

Greetings all. I'll go ahead and chime in here since I just went through this. I also have Garmin Chartplotters. I have two cameras connected to the chartplotter in the lower helm.

The engine room camera is from Fry's. The IR functionality is reasonably good with the lights off. Much better with the lights on.

http://www.frys.com/product/5820453?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG


The second camera is on the back of the mast. I got a really good deal on a Garmin reverse image camera so I used that there. I flipped the video over since the photo. Seems a bit more natural.




As I understand it, all Garmin chartplotters will display the image full screen except the 4212 (which is what I have). A quirk with the Fujitsu video board in it.


The Garmin network does not allow chartplotters to share video so you would need to use a coax splitter and run coax to both chartplotters if you wanted to see the video on both displays.


Rusty


Archimedes
1978 Grand Banks 42 Classic #572
Seattle

"Think about it. How are you going to use your boat?*

If you are a fair weather boater and never go out in the ocean. You are probably right you don't need one.

Get*caught in one storm and you will be wishing to God you had a lower helm."


No. Enclosed bridge. I love being up there, even in a storm, if I happen to be dumb enough to get caught in one and I have experience there to be sure.

Yes indeed.* I have no need for an upper helm, however.* For fresh air I can open the pilothouse doors and the middle-front pilothouse window.* The doors have upper and bottom halves:




-- Edited by markpierce on Monday 31st of January 2011 10:59:20 PM

The only time I use the upper helm in the California Delta in the Summer is after the sun is down. It's too hot during the day! Even with a bimini. I would also rather be in the lower helm in Winter when it's foggy and the temp is down in the low 40s. Spring and Fall is groovy, though. I always use the lower helm when cruising down the coast because, like Marin, I feel connected to the boat's systems and can hear, feel, and smell the normal and abnormal workings of the boat. I guess I could live without an upper helm except for those perfect summer nights when our favorite adult beverages taste just a little better under the stars.

A little late to this but here is my 2 cents.

Mainship built the 34t with the lower helm as an option in the earlier years of production (04 -06).* It became standard in 07 I believe.* I think it was a price point gimmick.* Anyway there are a few out there without the lower helm.* From what I saw when I was buying my boat they suffered in their sale asking*price by about 20% and they still were not selling. One had been on the market going on two years.

So use it or not the resale will suffer without the lower helm and in a down market that will really hurt.


My boat does not have any electronics at the lower helm, none, nada.* So the plan is to take one of the Raymarine*E-80's (there bridged together)*move it down and replace it with a Garmin 5200 series.* That will give me everything down, depth, radar and chart.* Get a remote for the*Auto and a remote mike*for the radio.* Now where did I put that lottery ticket?

Carl,

Will you use a step down transformer to power the Camera?* I see it is 9V DC.* Or do you plan on using a small inverter to drive the 120V unit?* Or run the Gen-set all the time.*

I need to do something because I can't see the swim platform from the top.*