berth width...what would you do

caltexflanc said:

The only east coast marina I can think of (and we've seen far from all of them) with full length finger piers on each side is Turnberry I$le in Aventura FL. First class place and crew as well. In fact, finding a full length finger pier even on one side is pretty rare other than one side of a face dock or along a bulkhead.

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Shipyard quarters in Boston has single load slips, of course their maintenance program went to hell about 20 years ago. Not worth the coin. There motto became "Tie up, pay up and SHUT UP!" What a waste of a great location and a first class facility that went to the dogs under new "management".

O C Diver said:

I don't like double berth floating docks either. However, here is an interesting twist I hadn't seen before. The one floating dock at Sommers Cove has double berths, but they put 2 stout pilings between the boat positions.

While it's still possible to get a boat between the pilings while docking, once you're in, the pilings become a barrier between you and your berth buddy. Maybe this is common elsewhere, I have never seen it before. Works for me!

Ted

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I've seen a few like that. A compromise.

Bohans said:

Hi everyone. I have another "what would you do" issue...

Here is the story...

We went away to work in usa prior to christmas. My boat remained in the berth which i own. It is a 25m x 6.5m berth. Our boat is 21mx5.5. We fit easily in our allocated space with room to spare.

While away a large brand new powercat moved in to the berth next to us. We have no barrier between us. The berth is same size as ours with the 6.5m beam space. Their boat is taking up 19m of length which is fine but is using 7.1m of beam space due to dimension of multihulls and also that they are fendered off etc. So they are 60cm or 2 foot too big.

Issue is when our boat is in its berth there is less than 3foot between us. We are in a blow off berth with the typical prevailing wind so no room for error in docking.

So tell me how you would deal with this.

The powercat is brand new made of carbon fibre and a very expensive boat. Nice people etc and Re renting the berth right now...

We will talk to management of the marina about the powercat dimensions and politley request they be moved.

Your approach would be what?

Thanks

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There's one piece of information I didn't see: Is the adjacent slip owned by the marina and are they renting it out or is it owned by another individual owner and he/she is renting it out?

If it's the marina, you can certainly ask that it be moved. You can ask strongly if necessary because the boat is actually taking up space that you "own".

If it's owned and rented by an individual, it's going to take a little more tact because you have no relationship with that person (or organization). You may not be able to locate them and they may refuse to deal with you.

In any case, you would still be responsible for any damage to the other boat (and your boat) from your docking operation even though the boat is partially in your space.

If it comes to an impasse, you will need to contact a lawyer.

In BC the Gov't docks are multiple berth (tie alongside other boats). Did this for most of my boating life (commercial fishing).
Now berthed at a marina (floating docks),side tie, single tie only.
However, on board I like a double berth.
Have been double-berthed for 50 years!!

Ted

Bohans, I`m not liking the sound of your Marina. First they allow an oversize boat beside you. Then they let out your berth while you are away, you return early and find it occupied (does the lease allow that, if so do you get a share of the fees they charged the short term user?)
As Brian says, I left a marina where we were moved without our knowledge or consent to a berth with a 3" gap between us and the next boat. We just left, I`d heard too many stories about the owners practices. I`m still hearing them.
You need to verify the adjoining berth is leased under similar conditions to yours, and get a copy of the lease document if possible, so you can confront the next door lessee . A quiet non confronting chat with the Marina might do it, assuming things have not gone beyond that. The 2 agreements are separate, you are not party to the neighbours agreement so how do you get the Marina to enforce it, you`d have to argue all the agreements are linked for everyone`s benefit.
Maybe there are obligations on the Marina in your lease about the size of boat they can allow in the twinned berth. Unfortunately most Marina leases usually just benefit the Marina and burden it the absolute minimum.
Do I understand correctly the cat is a subletting user? Query the original lessee knew the real size of the cat, maybe he can terminate, presumably the sublet agreement requires compliance with the lease above it. In any event the Marina should not allow an oversize boat. Whatever size limits are commonly accepted in Marinas, it sounds like yours has set its own, it should abide by them, and that means not putting an oversize boat next to you.
The issue for this old retired lawyer is how, once the facts are established, and assuming you want to stay, you force the Marina to comply.

Well, step one is reviewing his own lease and talking pleasantly to the marina, trying to resolve amicably but knowing what his legal rights are or are not as he does.

As to the practice of renting one's slip out when they're not there, I know many marinas that have it in their rental agreements allowing them to do so and then share the revenues with you. Now, I haven't seen that on owned slips but it could be in the agreement. Size of boats should be specified in the slip deeds.

What you encountered, being moved, is fairly common in the US as well as allowed by the leases although it's typically not that the marina physically does the moving. They just advise you that you're being moved. Frankly though I've never known a marina to actually use that right. The closest I've seen is relocating boats because of maintenance they need to do and doing that with owner's permission.

The situation in which I've seen dramatic changes in marina practices have been after a sale of the marina. The contract often gave the marina broad rights but the old owner never abused them.

Thanks everyone for your interest. Here is the resolution so far.

I docked my boat today. Lined it up nicely with only 10kn blow off wind and had helpers to secure lines. The cat was not there. I spoke to the owner of the at and introduced myself and politley expressed my concerns. He is only renting but wants to buy. He tllold me his boat is 6.7m beam and i also told him it takes up 7.1m inc fenders etc of water space. He was told by the marina mgr he could berth here. He was not trying to squeeze in to save money etc. I saix all fine but really would like you to find another spot. I mentioned we own our berth and the dimensions of larger berths he could also rent. He does not want his boat damaged either.

Today i spoke to the marina mgr. Told them i spoke to cat owner and gave dimenions of his cat. As if they did not already know but they agreed to find another spot for the cat. Still negligent on the mgr part if you ask me...

Anyway while brining boat in today i had my wife and daughter throw lines. They were progressively secured as i came down our long 30m berth pontoon. All of a sudden while all was going great the guy who has my bow line ties off...suddenly the stern swings abruptly out and if the cat was there would have smashed it. I had to yell for him to release the line as i put the juggled the motors to bring my stern back in. Not fun at all...

This was a good lesson on giving clear instructions to all three line handlers but in reality it is hard to do. I relied on the bow handler to watch what was going on.

So good example of how it can all go wrong so fast.

I think i have the cat issue solved and no arguments or fights. Had a nice chat to the cat owner today also.

Thanks again for your interest and great advice.

Bo

caltexflanc said:

The only east coast marina I can think of (and we've seen far from all of them) with full length finger piers on each side is Turnberry I$le in Aventura FL. First class place and crew as well. In fact, finding a full length finger pier even on one side is pretty rare other than one side of a face dock or along a bulkhead.

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Hartge Yacht Harbor in Galesville, MD. They do exist. This one is 60-feet long, four-feet wide. Pilings on one side. Plenty wide. Can't get me away from this slip. Boat is a Defever 44.

BandB said:

............ As to the practice of renting one's slip out when they're not there, I know many marinas that have it in their rental agreements allowing them to do so and then share the revenues with you. ............

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A marina can put anything they want (as long as it's legal) in the lease and it's up to you to accept this or go elsewhere.

My marina specifies that they may rent out a slip holder's slip when the boat is away but they do not share the income with the slip holder, they keep it for themselves. They also reserve the right to require slip holders to vacate their slips for up to a week for a "boat show".

These practices are common in my area so there are few options.

Great job of addressing the problem. Most conflicts can be resolved with diplomacy and if they can't then at least you know you tried. Just keep alert to this entire situation as it isn't completely resolved until the CAT is docked in another slip.

WesK said:

A marina can put anything they want (as long as it's legal) in the lease and it's up to you to accept this or go elsewhere.

My marina specifies that they may rent out a slip holder's slip when the boat is away but they do not share the income with the slip holder, they keep it for themselves. They also reserve the right to require slip holders to vacate their slips for up to a week for a "boat show".

These practices are common in my area so there are few options.

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The "boat show" one in Fort Lauderdale is longer.

A good reminder to all to read their leases carefully, whether for boat slips or apartments or houses or anything else. The problem is that in most cases they are very prejudicial and not negotiable.

Let`s hope you get a narrower neighbour. Sounds like he went where the Marina said. They should, and probably do, know better.
He who drafts the Agreement gets to benefit himself while burdening others. I`d guess there is nothing in your lease restricting the size of boat the marina can put beside you.
With apologies to Hopcar, I prefer dogs to cats anyway.

catalinajack said:

Hartge Yacht Harbor in Galesville, MD. They do exist. This one is 60-feet long, four-feet wide. Pilings on one side. Plenty wide. Can't get me away from this slip. Boat is a Defever 44.

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Like I said, rare on one side, still searching for another with full length on both sides... (and that is one narrow pier you have).

This is an interesting thread, and I'm glad that it seems to have been solved diplomatically. I have the same problem where my new-to-me boat is berthed in La Paz, Mexico; Double boat berths, with about 3' between our beams. My problem is that I am new to the whole trawler thing, being a sailor newly converted. I do have twin screws, which should help, and I bought two new large fenders for the outside of my boat for docking. I am going to the boat this week and will venture out and in to the dock for the first time. I will post if things go sideways, but I am trying not to stress about it now.

Cheers, Bill

Montenido said:

This is an interesting thread, and I'm glad that it seems to have been solved diplomatically. I have the same problem where my new-to-me boat is berthed in La Paz, Mexico; Double boat berths, with about 3' between our beams. My problem is that I am new to the whole trawler thing, being a sailor newly converted. I do have twin screws, which should help, and I bought two new large fenders for the outside of my boat for docking. I am going to the boat this week and will venture out and in to the dock for the first time. I will post if things go sideways, but I am trying not to stress about it now.

Cheers, Bill

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If your docking situation makes you hesitant to use your boat as much, then do something differently, whether a different slip or different marina. 3' sounds like a lot until you each put fenders on both sides of your boats. Then it disappears.

Until you get really handy with the boat , it is usually far easier to pull in FWD to the slip.

Backing out is usually less problem.

FF said:

Until you get really handy with the boat , it is usually far easier to pull in FWD to the slip.

Backing out is usually less problem.

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Pulling into a slip is easy. Getting on and off the boat might be impossible.

Pulling in may make it more difficult to connect electrical power, depending on the boat's configuration. For me, stern to is always more convenient once I'm in, but yes, the backing in can sometimes be a problem.

Bohans said:

Tomorrow I get to return to my berth as I have been away on the boat and hiding from winds.......even if I line it up perfectly. I am not in position for long.

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If you are single handing and in the upwind side of the slip, I suggest using a mid ship cleat on your boat. As you pull in and are slowly approaching the dock mid cleat, put the throttle in neutral & as you step off the boat, put a loop (attached to the dock cleat) immediately over the mid ship cleat on your boat. Make sure that when the loop is attached that the boat's fenders are snugged up against the dock. Now, the boat can't go anywhere! Maybe the bow or the stern can go slightly towards your neighbor but it won't hit! I have a much smaller boat but the neighbor's boat is a beautiful wide bodied sail boat which I do not want to hit. This procedure (hundreds of years old) has worked for many boats that are in a similar position as yours.


Obviously this procedure is really handy for single handing which I do 95% of the time.