Loss of AC dock power...

sunchaser said:

This riposte aside, when away, why leave your fridge plugged in and potentially draining the batteries vs solely running off 110?

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That's what I do. I'd rather lose a few bucks worth of food if the power goes out than a few hundred bucks worth of batteries...

BandB said:

There's a term "mission critical." Is electricity critical to the mission of the marina? That's debatable. I would say in this case it hasn't been treated as if it is considered to be so. I would consider it to be so for the persons docked in those slips.

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Electricity going out is a common occurrence in many non-first world marinas. We are prepared for it. Same with water.

No it means hospitals and computer centers are high enough value operations that their dedicated engineering staff can afford to identify and keep critical long lead time items in stock onsite. If Ancora's boat was a high enough value operation his dedicated engineering staff would have had a solution in hand too, like fire up the onboard generator.

What the hell is so critical about dock power? If you or the op did your due diligence a minor inconvenience wouldn't warrant a 50 page thread slamming a San Diego Marina for not having a ready replacement for everything they own onsite. **** happens must not be in your vocabulary. Neither is self reliance.

A community of 7,000+ homes local to me just went 48 hours without natural gas, nobody died as a result. But this much I guarantee, the wiser of those residents will now be exercising their due diligence and will be far better prepared the next time **** happens.

psneeld said:

......... I pay for electric...so I figure it should be provided.

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And you would be perfectly within your rights to ask for the days where it was not provided to be deducted from your bill. Out for a week? 1/4 off the monthly bill.

BandB said:

There's a term "mission critical." Is electricity critical to the mission of the marina? That's debatable. I would say in this case it hasn't been treated as if it is considered to be so. I would consider it to be so for the persons docked in those slips.

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Electrical power in a typical marina is not "mission critical". The boats will not sink or drift way without it. We have a right to expect it to work 99% or so of the time but not 100% fail safe.

If dock power was even close to "mission critical" for our boats we would certainly not be using the outdated and unreliable cables and connectors that our boats and marinas come with. There would be some serious changes. As it is, it's more likely that your plug will fall out of the socket than the power going out. It's more likely that someone will accidentally (or on purpose) unplug your power cord than the power going out.

If you believe electrical power is "mission critical" for your boat you can try to find a marina that guarantees reliable 24/7/ 365 electrical power or take steps to provide it yourself (a standby genset with an automatic transfer relay).

BandB said:

When you try to indicate that parts aren't available at all times, but then say it's not a hospital or computer center, you're implying the parts would be available to them. Which is true. So parts are available. The same wholesalers to supply those parts will supply to anyone. Now I'm not saying a marina is as important as a hospital, just the hospital scenario proves the availability of parts.

Power goes out in my business I expect it attended to immediately. Our service standard for issues such as this is on site within one hour and returned to service within four. I have managed businesses all my adult life. Commercial electricians are used to these requirements and their suppliers are available. Parts suppliers that serve that part of the industry are use to the demands put upon them. They all have emergency numbers. Industrial, Commercial, and Business are not Monday to Friday 9:00 - 5:00 worlds. I do not know where the OP is so don't know the distance to the wholesale electric suppliers. The fact at least one of the suppliers I'm familiar with is in all 50 states means he probably isn't too far from one.

The reality is much quicker repair is possible. Whether it's within the requirements of the yacht club or something they're willing to pay for is another issue.

There's a term "mission critical." Is electricity critical to the mission of the marina? That's debatable. I would say in this case it hasn't been treated as if it is considered to be so. I would consider it to be so for the persons docked in those slips.

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You are correct.

My business is in business to provide mission critical electrical power switching equipment. We ship overnight all the time. Full disclosure No, we do not supply transformers, but I cannot imagine why they would not be readily available.

Ok, first part of the equation is if it's a transformer, who owns it. Many businesses buy power from the pole and own their infrastructure. not sure if this is the case with the marina. Second, before the transformer is replaced, an assessment of the wiring on both sides needs to be made to determine if there is any aditional damage. Now if the power company owns it, they will move in a timely manner. If it's owned by the marina, it will also be replaced in a timely manner, but the marina / yacht club probably has now intention of paying huge expediting costs as opposed to a timely manner.

Think everybody (power company, marina /yacht club, and the boat owners) recognize this is not remotely mission critical, needs to be done correctly, and in a timely manner. These are boats after all, designed first to function without shore power and second with shore power.

Ted

WesK said:

It's unrealistic to expect any special repair parts to be available 24/7 or even within 24 hours for something like this. Parts suppliers set their own hours, distant warehouses set their own hours and you can't just call them up at home and demand that they find and ship you a part. That's life.

The only alternative is for the marina (in this case) to buy and store every part that they might need for any maintenance (not just electrical, anything). This would be very, very expensive and many of the items would never be used.


This is a marina, not a hospital or computer center.

Power goes out at your home or business as well occasionally. Deal with it.

If you don't understand this, you have never been involved with maintenance issues.

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At last some commonsense on this storm in a teacup. Adding to the difficulty of rectification, of a defect we know not what, is the festive season which here at least, sees parts suppliers and service people either on vacation or less available than usual.

When turning off the refrigerator (its current status since shore power is useless without a working inverter), I open its door to reduce the opportunity for mold.

Worked in a large medical center in Los Angeles for 24 years. The 19 story main building had two stand by generators powered by GE locomotive diesel engines with oil and coolant temps kept heated for instant start. Every Wednesday, the hospital would go over to emergency gen for one half hour. No more than a "blink" was tolerated. With five operating theaters, there was no room for error.
PS Latest word is we now have both "C" and "B" docks shut down with a back-hoe comin' in tomorrow.

ancora said:

PS Latest word is we now have both "C" and "B" docks shut down with a back-hoe comin' in tomorrow.

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Wow....it will be interesting to hear what has happened.

Got an e-mail from the club lettin' us know that the power has been restored and would it be okay for our dockmaster to turn on our dock box breaker. Looks like we are back in business just in time for the New Year's gala at the club. A Happy New Year after all.

Mark-- While taking you boat out to recharge your batteries until you have a chance to have your inverter/charger repaired is a great reason to go boating )) there is an alternative I'm sure you've probably already thought of. And that's to borrow or perhaps rent a portable generator like a Honda that you could use in your slip to throw a charge back into the batteries if it wasn't convenient to take the boat out. I seem to recall some of your boating companions down there have this type of generator.....

ancora said:

Got an e-mail from the club lettin' us know that the power has been restored and would it be okay for our dockmaster to turn on our dock box breaker. Looks like we are back in business just in time for the New Year's gala at the club. A Happy New Year after all.

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Very glad to hear you're back in business.

Marin, that would require routing the charge to bypass the AC inlet and the inverter, and assuming the source was generating 24 volts. No?

Besides, I'd rather operate the boat using the engine's alternator rather than sit around waiting for the boat to be charged externally.

Mark-- Yeah, you're right. I didn't think that through very well. Also, I missed that your boat is 24 volts.

" The 19 story main building had two stand by generators powered by GE locomotive diesel engines with oil and coolant temps kept heated for instant start."

The usual reason for keeping generators warm is so the can accept the full load when its transferred with no stumbling or damage.

The norm on cruse ships, where gensets are kicked on and off line to follow the variable loading.

markpierce said:

Marin, that would require routing the charge to bypass the AC inlet and the inverter, and assuming the source was generating 24 volts. No?

Besides, I'd rather operate the boat using the engine's alternator rather than sit around waiting for the boat to be charged externally.

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Buy a back up battery charger. Or consider adding some solar power.

As for those worried about running their batteries down, low voltage cut-off devices are available. Low Voltage Disconnects

FF said:

"Maybe but they cost over $2000. "

With any alternate energy lifestyle , the load reduction almost always pays for the unit.

The Diesel is not efficient , alts are not efficient , battery charging has costs in energy and service life so a smart fridge can be a deal, even at 2 boat bucks.

A slip cottage , aground in its coffee grounds , might not find it useful, but folks that cruise just might.

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For a year round live aboard or cruiser you might be right. They look like a nice unit.

Have you used them? Are they that much more effeciant and better insulated?
Do they fit in a standard small boat fridge opening?

When we went down to the boat on Monday, we brought our Honda portable gen set (from a previous boat we owned 31 years ago) and a battery charger. Fortunately, we did not have to use them.

ancora said:

.........Latest word is we now have both "C" and "B" docks shut down with a back-hoe comin' in tomorrow.

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Underground electrical cable failures are not uncommon. For "mission critical", I suppose there should have been a redundant set of underground cables as well as the spare transformers, panels, breakers, etc.. Or perhaps the cables could have been installed in a conduit so they could be replaced quickly. You would still need an electrical company on call 24/7.

I can't imagine anyone thinking electrical power in a yacht club or marina is any where "mission critical". And I can't see anyone willing to pay the increased costs to make it so.

Bottom line: **** happens. Deal with it.

ancora said:

When we went down to the boat on Monday, we brought our Honda portable gen set (from a previous boat we owned 31 years ago) and a battery charger. Fortunately, we did not have to use them.

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Have they told you anything about what the problem or cause was?

We are in Rodney Bay Marina in St. Lucia. The shore power is off about three times a day totaling more than 8 hours per day. Not much of a problem for us as we treat the shore power as a silent generator which charges the batteries and heats the water when available. When shore power is available the AC/DC refrigeration switches to AC, when shore power is off the refrigerator switches back to DC.
We are in the marina for only a few days before going to anchor so this is no big deal for us.
There are a few boats not equipped for anchoring out all the time and they are frequently frustrated at the lack of electricity.
For those who know something of the difference between European and North American electricity the Rodney Bay Marina shore power problem is an interesting example of trying to do too much. St. Lucia like all the Eastern Caribbean is 220v 50 hertz. Trinidad is the exception. The majority of docks on St. Lucia and elsewhere are 220 volt 50 hertz. On other English speaking islands the marinas supply 110v 50 hertz power using a step down transformer for the North Americans. I am using 110v to simplify the discussion but it is actually North American 220v versus European 220v. Here everyone calls North American electricity 110v. Back to the marinas. Here in St. Lucia the marina tries to offer 110v 60 hertz (rather than 50 hertz) using a converter. The converter is a disaster. It overheats a couple a times a day and needs to be shut down to cool off.
The irony is that many/most North American boats can accept 50 hertz as we are prepared for it and have bought equipment which accepts both 50 hertz and 60 hertz. On Bay Pelican only the washing machine requires 60 hertz and I can run that off of the inverter.

"There are a few boats not equipped for anchoring out all the time and they are frequently frustrated at the lack of electricity."

Just the sort of boat to avoid purchasing IF you wish to go cruising.

Marty

Good post that speaks to a prime requirement for serious cruisers - living off the grid. Do you have solar panels? If so, how well do they make up for the power interruptions? Also, how frequently do you run your genset when in RB?

sunchaser said:

Marty

Good post that speaks to a prime requirement for serious cruisers - living off the grid. Do you have solar panels? If so, how well do they make up for the power interruptions? Also, how frequently do you run your genset when in RB?

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We have two 140 watt solar panels and one Airbreeze wind generator. The combination of solar panels and wind generator has cut our genset use by approximately half. Depending on wind/ sun we run the genset for a hour a day. This may be different this year as the last two years were high wind years and the wind generator was producing a steady 10 amps. On those days we ran the genset long enough to heat water. We use a lot of electricity, our three main uses are the refrigeration, water making and the washing machine.

As to genset use note we have two inverter/chargers which produce a combined 205 amps when we run the genset.