Loss of AC dock power...

BandB said:

While I agree with being prepared which to me includes having someone there on site to assist, I'm also not letting the marina off as easy as some of you are. I've read in this thread somewhat casual statements regarding extended power failure. If it's power outage caused by a storm and the entire area without power, I can accept that. However, if it's not that then the other reasons are unacceptable meaning any power outage just at the marina. Here we've got a marina saying they shut the power off due to low voltage. What? What are they talking about? They have a responsibility to get it repaired, functioning quickly. This isn't a qualified "act of God" or any other disaster. It sounds like a marina with an inadequate power system or some other issue. I'd also expect them to check my boat for me daily and let me know how it's doing until they have their problem fixed.

To the OP, did you get any further explanation as to what is going on and why?

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Do you know that the marina is slacking on this issue or are you just guessing? Is there a problem getting the electrician there quickly? Is there a failed component (transformer, special breaker, panel, etc.) that has to be ordered? Was it over a weekend or holiday when all the supply houses were closed? Did a storm or a runaway boat damage the dock or wiring?

I'll bet the slip lease does not guarantee uninterrupted electrical power 24/7. The OP is fortunate that they sent him a notice. They didn't have to do that and many would not have.


It's far to easy to blame someone who doesn't have the opportunity to tell his side of the story.

BandB said:

While I agree with being prepared which to me includes having someone there on site to assist, I'm also not letting the marina off as easy as some of you are. I've read in this thread somewhat casual statements regarding extended power failure. If it's power outage caused by a storm and the entire area without power, I can accept that. However, if it's not that then the other reasons are unacceptable meaning any power outage just at the marina. Here we've got a marina saying they shut the power off due to low voltage. What? What are they talking about? They have a responsibility to get it repaired, functioning quickly. This isn't a qualified "act of God" or any other disaster. It sounds like a marina with an inadequate power system or some other issue. I'd also expect them to check my boat for me daily and let me know how it's doing until they have their problem fixed.

To the OP, did you get any further explanation as to what is going on and why?

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I agree. Being prepared doesn't let the marina off the hook for providing reliable power.

WesK said:

Do you know that the marina is slacking on this issue or are you just guessing? Is there a problem getting the electrician there quickly? Is there a failed component (transformer, special breaker, panel, etc.) that has to be ordered? Was it over a weekend or holiday when all the supply houses were closed? Did a storm or a runaway boat damage the dock or wiring?

I'll bet the slip lease does not guarantee uninterrupted electrical power 24/7. The OP is fortunate that they sent him a notice. They didn't have to do that and many would not have.


It's far to easy to blame someone who doesn't have the opportunity to tell his side of the story.

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I don't know what the problem is and neither does the OP unless he's gathered more information. I'm still saying that unless there was a storm or major event, extended outages are not acceptable. I've always been in businesses where any outage was very expensive and can't get electrician there quickly, failed component that has to be ordered, weekend or holiday just would not have been acceptable excuses.

Perhaps the OP will get the rest of the story. So far we've just been told low voltage and that the marina shut the power off. So, clearly not a storm that knocked the power in the entire neighborhood off. Not a wreck that knocked the power off.

BandB said:

I don't know what the problem is and neither does the OP unless he's gathered more information. I'm still saying that unless there was a storm or major event, extended outages are not acceptable. I've always been in businesses where any outage was very expensive and can't get electrician there quickly, failed component that has to be ordered, weekend or holiday just would not have been acceptable excuses.

Perhaps the OP will get the rest of the story. So far we've just been told low voltage and that the marina shut the power off. So, clearly not a storm that knocked the power in the entire neighborhood off. Not a wreck that knocked the power off.

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I agree...especially as a liveaboard...long term, unexpected power and water outages are from just bad management/mintenance...unless an act of nature.

I have seen good marinas and bad. The bad can't blame anyone but themselves and if the can't get up to speed due to finances...at least let the slip holders know up front that they will be sub-par and should only charge accordingly.


And for those that think slips are individually metered....more aren't than are on the east coast (at least NJ and south) or pretty close.

I believe the op keeps his boat at a private yacht club. Sounds like something the general membership needs to take up at the next meeting.

We just got back from the boat. We went aboard and the reefer was runnin' but the voltages on both banks were just below 11 volts. Gave the gen set a try...the starter cranked slower than usual but it was enough to get the "Westy" started. After an hour of runnin' both banks were topped off. The office now tells us it won't be till Tuesday for the fix. We gotta go down to the boat on Thursday for our New Year's Gala the batts should be okay. Some time ago I posited that we were over batteried and was thinkin' of pullin' two of them off. Thanks to you guys on the forum who talked me out of makin' what would've been a mistake.

ancora said:

We just got back from the boat. We went aboard and the reefer was runnin' but the voltages on both banks were just below 11 volts. Gave the gen set a try...the starter cranked slower than usual but it was enough to get the "Westy" started. After an hour of runnin' both banks were topped off. The office now tells us it won't be till Tuesday for the fix. We gotta go down to the boat on Thursday for our New Year's Gala the batts should be okay. Some time ago I posited that we were over batteried and was thinkin' of pullin' two of them off. Thanks to you guys on the forum who talked me out of makin' what would've been a mistake.

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Did they give any explanation?

See, to me, electricity doesn't have business days vs weekends. We use it every day. So this is at least a three day outage.

CPseudonym said:

I believe the op keeps his boat at a private yacht club. Sounds like something the general membership needs to take up at the next meeting.

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Can't speak to Ancora's YC setup, but some YCs own their own dock wiring and switchgear. At our marina the local utility is responsible for the ready kilowatts up to the on dock switchgear. Response time is 24/7/365. Never had an issue, but there is always a first time.

Could be something like a buck/boost transformer that burned up and power reconnected without it. Volts then low. Might just be waiting on parts.

Ski in NC said:

Could be something like a buck/boost transformer that burned up and power reconnected without it. Volts then low. Might just be waiting on parts.

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Might be, but I've never lived anywhere that those parts wouldn't be readily available.

I would guess everyone treading softly since it's a private club. The "Thou shalt not criticize" policy.

No explanation on what went wrong. It only happened to our dock with 36 boats bein'
effected. The other five docks are fine. If they can't get it fixed they'll have to bring in a portable gen to feed the dock. We have twenty eight 40 foot slips and eight 50 foot slips on our dock. What a way to start the New Year.

I'm calling karma on this one...

Ski in NC said:

Got any frozen squid in that fridge?? Don't ask why I pose that question!!!

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Don't have to ask. Been there, done that. (Squid is wonderful grouper bait).

I have read a few slip agreements in my lifetime and to my recollection have never seen one where the marina / yacht club even hints at uninterrupted power.

Bay Pelican said:

I have read a few slip agreements in my lifetime and to my recollection have never seen one where the marina / yacht club even hits at uninterrupted power.

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Neither does almost any rental or for that matter, home power agreement.

It is just understood.

ancora said:

... After an hour of runnin' both banks were topped off....

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Glad all was well in the fridge and freezer though I'm not sure your batteries were topped off in 1 hour. If the batteries were pretty pretty close to being empty you'll need more time on the charger. I'd keep an eye on them this weekend.

No one is talking the legalities. We're just talking about customer service. Now, they're saying Tuesday and then saying if that doesn't fix it and then you wonder if it will and why their electrician wouldn't know. Now, they mention if it doesn't work they'll bring in a Portable Generator. Ah...why didn't they do that on Saturday?

I'm sure many yacht clubs and marinas would be handling it as they are. If it was an apartment without electricity, would you be as patient? What about a rental house? And most of those lease agreements provide more time than a well run landlord would possibly use.

Are we saying if the lease agreement had a clause that said $X per day reduction for any day electricity was out, they'd have reacted differently?

What about if the electric was off inside the club and food there was spoiling?

I would just hope that this leads to better arrangements. While I don't know where the OP is, most areas have plenty of electricians available 24/7 to serve business customers.

There is a reasonable expectation of electricity and there is a reasonable expectation that the landlord (in this case the manager for the yacht club) will do everything possible to restore electricity as soon as possible.

I'm simply saying I don't consider three days to meet that expectation on a location specific issue. Not saying it's a legal requirement by any means.

My inverter is on the blink. So, marina electrical provision is irrelevant as far as keeping the boat's batteries charged. Until the inverter is fixed, the boat is on electrical survival mode with the need to take the boat out for several hours every couple of weeks to charge the batteries. Power outage at the marina isn't a tragedy unless one doesn't have access to one's boat.

it is if you are a liveaboard....to a point....just like any home.


even to boaters who use their boat a lot, keep fridges and freezers full of food and bait, keep humidity low, etc...etc...

Aren't liveaboards capable of operating their boats to keep batteries charged even without a genset? Absent a genset, I can maintain battery charge if operating the boat for several hours every three days if staying aboard with all necessary systems operating. If not aboard, I'm good for two weeks.

markpierce said:

Aren't liveaboards capable of operating their boats to keep batteries charged even without a genset? Absent a genset, I can maintain battery charge if operating the boat for several hours every three days if staying aboard with all necessary systems operating. If not aboard, I'm good for two weeks.

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Can you run heaters, bake with electric, run the microwave several times a day, run a skill saw, light multiple cabins at once, charge multiple computers, run the TV several hours, be in and out of the fridge 20 times?????.....

Sure when cruising I can manage all that...but like when you are at home...you want what you want when you want it.

Plus...I may have the engine and genset down for major maintenance because I AM AT A DOCK WITH ELECTRICITY.

I shouldn't have to suffer bad marina management or maintenance.

believe me I am sympathetic to crappy marinas....I live in one and am continuously helping to fix electric, water and marina heads. Not my job...but I am a softie.


If I was paying higher rates...I would be raising heck or moving.

Heater, electric stove, microwave, coffee maker A/C, TV: don't have/need them.

markpierce said:

Heater, electric stove, microwave, coffee maker: don't have/need them.

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Others do though...and I would say that many liveaboards do...and even most of the regular weekenders. In the south...many leave the Air Conditioner on in really hot/humid spells.

You are correct that the more adept cruisers probably have their boats set up to go long periods without external power.

I can...but I choose not to unless cruising or I HAVE to.

I pay for electric...so I figure it should be provided.

Phil Fill said:

When we travel south for months at time, we have our other live aboards, my yatch service and marina check on the boat. We have a boat alarms, Boatnanny, that sends a text message to my phone, bilge, AC and DC electric, temperature salon and bilge, motion and sound. So if an alarm goes off I know it with in minutes and call for someone to check on the boat. So call someone if concerned. Better to be safe rather than sorry.

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Yep, we have an alarm, and a boat watch service.

One call and they would go start the generator for a few hours to do a recharge.

This sounds like a little more than what the average residential electrician can handle. May be a step down transformer either owned by the marina or the power company. If powering thirty-six 50 amp 220 services, we're talking a 400 to 500 KW transformer. May take a few of days to get one shipped in, set and hooked up. Hooking up a generator for that kind of power also has some logistical challenges. Not quite as simple as running down the the rental store and picking up a 10 KW unit and running a few extension cords.

Whether you live in a house or a boat, think you need to have contingency plans for a week without power. While the marina and the power company should have plans to resolve these kinds of infrastructure problems in a timely manner, mother nature may have other plans.

Ted

Thread points up the hazards of having a single point of failure.

We live about 1300 miles from our vessel. At least half the vessels in our Marina live far away as well. Reliability of services and trustworthy boat watchers are a must. We never leave the fridge on when away from the vessel. Also we turn the inverter off when away.

It would be the same if we had the proverbial cabin in the woods or on the Coast of Maine. Leaving our residences or boats for weeks or months on end is pretty common so adjustments become the norm. Dealing with issues from afar becomes routine and a way of life. Murphy at work --

O C Diver said:

This sounds like a little more than what the average residential electrician can handle. May be a step down transformer either owned by the marina or the power company. If powering thirty-six 50 amp 220 services, we're talking a 400 to 500 KW transformer. May take a few of days to get one shipped in, set and hooked up. Hooking up a generator for that kind of power also has some logistical challenges. Not quite as simple as running down the the rental store and picking up a 10 KW unit and running a few extension cords.

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I don't think anyone said anything about an average residential electrician. This is a business, not a resident. And transformers stocked by suppliers, either available locally or within a day.

As to hooking up a generator, they're the ones who brought that up as what they'll do if this fix doesn't work. Again, no one suggested as simple as running to the store, but professional electricians handle things like that all the time.

Electricians who service businesses are use to very time critical situations where the cost of every hour of being shut down is very significant.

Ultimately it's up to the members to determine the level of service they require.

It's unrealistic to expect any special repair parts to be available 24/7 or even within 24 hours for something like this. Parts suppliers set their own hours, distant warehouses set their own hours and you can't just call them up at home and demand that they find and ship you a part. That's life.

The only alternative is for the marina (in this case) to buy and store every part that they might need for any maintenance (not just electrical, anything). This would be very, very expensive and many of the items would never be used.


This is a marina, not a hospital or computer center.

Power goes out at your home or business as well occasionally. Deal with it.

If you don't understand this, you have never been involved with maintenance issues.

WesK said:

It's unrealistic to expect any special repair parts to be available 24/7 or even within 24 hours for something like this. Parts suppliers set their own hours, distant warehouses set their own hours and you can't just call them up at home and demand that they find and ship you a part. That's life.

The only alternative is for the marina (in this case) to buy and store every part that they might need for any maintenance (not just electrical, anything). This would be very, very expensive and many of the items would never be used.


This is a marina, not a hospital or computer center.

Power goes out at your home or business as well occasionally. Deal with it.

If you don't understand this, you have never been involved with maintenance issues.

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When you try to indicate that parts aren't available at all times, but then say it's not a hospital or computer center, you're implying the parts would be available to them. Which is true. So parts are available. The same wholesalers to supply those parts will supply to anyone. Now I'm not saying a marina is as important as a hospital, just the hospital scenario proves the availability of parts.

Power goes out in my business I expect it attended to immediately. Our service standard for issues such as this is on site within one hour and returned to service within four. I have managed businesses all my adult life. Commercial electricians are used to these requirements and their suppliers are available. Parts suppliers that serve that part of the industry are use to the demands put upon them. They all have emergency numbers. Industrial, Commercial, and Business are not Monday to Friday 9:00 - 5:00 worlds. I do not know where the OP is so don't know the distance to the wholesale electric suppliers. The fact at least one of the suppliers I'm familiar with is in all 50 states means he probably isn't too far from one.

The reality is much quicker repair is possible. Whether it's within the requirements of the yacht club or something they're willing to pay for is another issue.

There's a term "mission critical." Is electricity critical to the mission of the marina? That's debatable. I would say in this case it hasn't been treated as if it is considered to be so. I would consider it to be so for the persons docked in those slips.