Anchor shackle / swivel

Hello,
I am trying to figure out a solution for an anchoring problem. More than 50% of the time, when we retrieve the anchor, the pin on the shackle seems to snag the side of the anchor roller. If I use a boat hook, I can lift the anchor a bit and get the windlass to retrieve the remainder of the rode.

I have seen a shackle using a square head bolt to present a smaller surface to get snagged. My other thought is to go to a swivel that is smaller than the width of the shackle.

Suggestions?

Saw someone on the dock installing one with a counter sunk Allen head screw. This one I think was 5/16" and SS. He bought it at West Marine.

Yeah, be sure to use thread locker on the screw.

We removed the swivel from our rode many years ago after realizing it was of no benefit at all to us. We believe the fewer components in a ground tackle setup the better.

But if we decided we needed a swivel there is only one we would use and that is the WASI ball. Unlike swivels that pivot in only one direction when attached to an anchor shank (unless a shackle is used between the swivel and the anchor) the WASI compensates for the rode pulling in any direction and it has no swivel pin to break. Nor does it have any protruding fasteners that can catch on anything.

Their only downside is they are very expensive.

Those are very good swivels as well.

As are these: Ultra Flip Swivel | Quickline USA

We have the Ultra flip swivels on the two Ultra anchors we have hanging at the bow of the boat I currently run.

But they are as mentioned expensive.

I'd not heard of the Ultra Flip before. From the video and the look of the design it seems like it would be an ideal solution for a situation that called for a swivel.

I've been thinking of getting a swivel. Yesterday I had to remove my delta anchor to untwist the chain. The windlass had difficulty retreiving the chain because of the twist.

Maybe try a different style of shackle. Some have a more rounded pin head and may not hang as they lack corners.

Ted

I'm a fan of Mantus anchors so I am using their new swivel:




It is potentially a very robust design but I think it depends too much on two lengths of seizing wire to secure the cone that holds the two halves together. I coated the threads liberally with 5200 while assembling it as well as using the seizing wire. I'll need to use a torch when I end for end the chain but I have no worries about it coming apart.

Next time, I'll 5200 a length of SS rod in the hole for the seizing wire and then put a layer of wire over it in the groove. It should be easier to drive that out than to heat up the whole thing.

This swivel goes over the anchor roller very easily.

I'm also using their chain hook:




The retainer broke the first time I tried to show my crew how to use it, I believe because the plastic gets brittle in cold. They sent me two replacements but they didn't arrive before we left on our 10 day shakedown cruise. I didn't see any sign that the retainer is needed as the cross shaped opening makes it quite resistant to coming undone. I'll try the retainers again and report but I suspect they are more trouble than they are worth. The retainers are very easy to remove and replace.

thank you all...looks like a swivel is in our future. I remember several on sale last year at the Miami boat show so that will be the plan.

Henry,
Will using a hex head cap screw reduce the width enough to clear the bow roller? I think some or many shackles have tapered threads lik pipe threads. May need to thread match.
Also there are many different kinds of shackles many of them narrower than others. I just put a smaller shackle on my rode to clear the bow roller flange.
Swivels are usually a weak link.

It has been suggested from time to time that a swivel is a potential weak point in the ground tackle. I have never used one for that reason. I occasionally experience a problem with the chain twisting but I find that dropping the anchor back into the water and raising is slowly will allow the anchor to spin and the chain to straighten out.


A different style of shackle may solve the OP's problem or even installing the existing one reversed (left to right) might help.

We found that a swivel allowed the anchor to turn out of alignment about as much as it allowed to find correct alignment.

Our current arrangement works very well with an all chain rode. We have a machined groove in the bow roller that the vertical links ride in, and the horizontal links lie flat on the roller. This, plus the chain ring on the windlass keep the chain in a fixed orientation. The anchor is then shackled to the chain end such that the anchor naturally hangs correctly. Sometimes it takes two shackles to get the orientation correct. Now Gravity is your friend and the anchor comes up and parks correctly every time.

twistedtree said:

We have a machined groove in the bow roller that the vertical links ride in, and the horizontal links lie flat on the roller.

Click to expand...

This is the very best solution in my opinion if one uses an all-chain rode.

Yes, twisted tree has it. I just tossed my swivel as it was causing more trouble than it solved and it used to get hung up. No swivel, happy anchoring!

but if you don't have groove...and until you get one...a swivel may help.


And no I don't anchor in hurricances so the slight loss in strength isn't an issue.

We used a WASI (bought from Fisheries Supply) for many years and hundreds of anchorings; I made the mistake of slightly undersizing mine; often was the time the anchor (an 88# Delta) still came up backwards and I had to untwist the chain slightly to get it right. Other than that a very nice piece of gear. The Ultra wasn't out yet when I bought ours, I think that's the route I'd take today.

psneeld said:

but if you don't have groove...and until you get one...a swivel may help.

Click to expand...

Yes, if the anchor does come up wrong, a swivel sure makes it easier to get it aligned correctly.

My boat came with the grove already in place, but if you had to have one cut, I suspect it would be about the same cost as a stainless swivel.

Twisted,
Yes but the grooved roller should work every time instead of 5%.

The swivel in its various forms has come under scrutiny here before, a good deal of the comment was negative, especially regarding so called "anchor connectors". Before ceasing to be a TF member, Australian anchoring exponent Djbanji expressed the view they were essentially unecessary except for long periods of anchoring with directional reversals, and that they can, and do fail and ought be removed from a rode.
Even so, I`m sure publicity about a new Mantus product will inspire some interest.

If properly attached and of common design they are not any more prone to failure than anything else in boating.


I disagree that chain twist only occurs during long periods, it can happen everytime the chain twists in the chain locker while falling in and goes back over not under strain.


Without a roller grove it seems to happen every time I anchor.


I am definitely looking into a groove though not sure my roller can be cut so a whole new one may be required on an outdated system.


Its tough here if you always think you are correct or an expert in an area that has so few "correct" answers.

I must say, I persevered for years with a swivel, because it was there, and even bought one of those expensive ones with recessed bolt heads, but it was when it came time to end for end the chain, to bring out the nicer galvanised half never used, I found those recessed bolts cease up so hard the Alan key just stripped out and in the end I had to cut a link to get if off.

I then thought I'd test the theory that if aligned properly, with all the vertical links (ducks) in a row, from gypsy to roller, and a grooved roller, which I have, the anchor would come up the right way, so left the swivel out, and low and behold, every time since, (crosses fingers - hard to do when typing), which is quite a few up-anchors, the thing has come up the right way round..!

psneeld said:

I disagree that chain twist only occurs during long periods, it can happen everytime the chain twists in the chain locker while falling in and goes back over not under strain.

Click to expand...

Peter B said:

I then thought I'd test the theory that if aligned properly, with all the vertical links (ducks) in a row, from gypsy to roller, and a grooved roller, which I have, the anchor would come up the right way, so left the swivel out, and low and behold, every time since, (crosses fingers - hard to do when typing), which is quite a few up-anchors, the thing has come up the right way round..!

Click to expand...

There's an additional complication when using a combination rope/chain rode: on retrieval, the chain re-loads itself onto the roller and gypsy however it wants to. Which in turn means the anchor will be returning "backwards" a big percentage of the time.

The swivel we have -- a relatively large, articulated/multi-directional Kong -- solves it by itself maybe about half the time. Looks like the Ultra swivel would solve it better, not inexpensively.

-Chris

I also use the Kong swivel and haven't had any problems with it. I have it between the main all chain rode and a short length of chain (6 links) that attaches to the fortress shank with a shackle.


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manyboats said:

Twisted,
Yes but the grooved roller should work every time instead of 5%.

Click to expand...

Even with the groove the chain occasionally gets a 90 deg twist in it, usually because it's coming in at an angle when retrieving the anchor. We have learned to be more patient, and to use the thruster to keep the chain coming in straight. Then no problems with it becoming twisted. So that 5% is when we are not being careful.

Yea that's one place I'd like a thruster .. at the stern.
While anchoring and backing down in a breeze.