Prairie 29 engines

Driftless, Your Prairie 29 is certainly trailer-able, especially that she has no fly bridge. The only obstacle resides inside your Head, and perhaps your wallet

@ driftless. I am planning to get to sandwich and overnight there. The. Take off early the next morning for the 26 mile jaunt across Cape Cod bay to P town. You are correct about the SW summer breeze. That 'Bermuda high' can be a real bitch. Better to exit west end of canal and transit BB with flood current than travel wind against tide. Nasty nasty.

Gurryman:

You may have the courage to trailer this thing, considering you keep your boat on a trailer, but I do not. That's just more adventure than I care for.

JS

I think what Gurryman meant was you can at least hire the boat moved, via a hydraulic trailer over the road. My boat is too high for long distance moving. The Flybridge is stuck on with 5200 and about 500 screws. Too much work to un fasten. This was the reason I did the Erie Canal to bring her home as opposed to having her trucked.

cappy208 said:

I think what Gurryman meant was you can at least hire the boat moved, via a hydraulic trailer over the road. My boat is too high for long distance moving. The Flybridge is stuck on with 5200 and about 500 screws. Too much work to un fasten. This was the reason I did the Erie Canal to bring her home as opposed to having her trucked.

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Not exactly Cappy. While hiring transport is an option, It is usually too costly and scheduling can be a pain. I was suggesting that Driftless's boat is just as trailer-able as mine, especially as it doesn't have a fly bridge.
I trailer mine everytime I use her.

The prairie 29 has a 12 foot beam. With or without a fly bridge, there is a problem.

John

Sortie said:

The prairie 29 has a 12 foot beam. With or without a fly bridge, there is a problem.

John

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Not a problem, My permit allows 12' 6" No escort.

Sorti,
No wonder they look so wide .... they are.
To get more space because of my walkaround side decks I've thought at times my Willard would be great w a 12' beam. Std is 10.5. I don't even think an increase in power would be needed. That's a mod that would certainly be way too difficult. Would be easier to build a new boat. My idea is to keep all the W30 lines intact .. just stretch the boat beam wise.

But if moorage was cheap (like it was in Alaska) I'd want to lengthen the hull aft about 3' .. or so. I'd rather have a stern shape much like the KK42. A wineglass section all the way back including a transom. All the above is just idle thinking. The Fales boat (that was made w a W30 mold) did stretch the W30 2'. All amidships. Just sawed her in half and inserted 2' of fabed up hull. Several Alaska State ferries have that kind of stretch.

Manyboats:

Sooo... The Willard has a narrower beam than the Prairie? Hmmm.

There's an attractive Willard named Vega (that's the boat's name, not the Willard type) for sale on Craigslist in New Hampshire. I saw the boat on Yachtworld this spring but didn't check it out because it was overpriced. Now that the price is down where it should be, I would be tempted to look at 'er, but found the Prairie first.

Maybe I'm better off with the beamier Prairie, but the Willard had a late model Yanmar engine, which might be a better deal than the old Perkins in Rise 'n Shine.

The Willard does have an attractive rounded stern. It's a handsome boat.

J.S.

Cappy:

I can attest to the fact that Gurryman is fearless when it comes to trailering.

What he didn't tell you is that he built that trailer from scratch.

J.S.

manyboats said:

I've thought at times my Willard would be great w a 12' beam. Std is 10.5.

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That's a skinny willy you've got there, Eric!

One of the nice features of the Prairie 29 are the wide walk around decks. My wife appreciated those. Overall it is an efficient hull, not fast, but user friendly, good interior space and easy to handle. Now that I am a full time single hander, solo, except for the dog, I find her pretty easy to handle. The old Perkins is an old bucket. It runs, and until it doesn't I will stay with it.

John

Gurryman said:

Not exactly Cappy. While hiring transport is an option, It is usually too costly and scheduling can be a pain. I was suggesting that Driftless's boat is just as trailer-able as mine, especially as it doesn't have a fly bridge.
I trailer mine everytime I use her.

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I suspect your vessel is slightly on the light side as compared to a prairie. I don't think an ordinary aluminum triaxle trailer would take 13,500 And my 1500 wouldn't take it either!

cappy208 said:

I suspect your vessel is slightly on the light side as compared to a prairie. I don't think an ordinary aluminum triaxle trailer would take 13,500 And my 1500 wouldn't take it either!

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My Nauset is 11500-12000 LBs. The entire rig, Truck trailer and boat weighs in at 22250. My trailer is all steel. An aluminum tri-axle trailer with a GVW of 18000 could be retrofitted to easily haul your Prairie.

Sortie:

I am completely in agreement with everything you said. The Prairie draws positive comments about the roominess from everyone who boards her.

,...and I also agree about the senior-citizen Perkins engine. I wouldn't choose it, but it's working fine so I see no urgent need to change it. I may use more fuel in the course of a season than if I had, say a Yanmar of 80 or 100 HP, but the difference is really small enough to be ignored.

There was another Prairie for sale in Boston last fall that I was on my way to look at when another party from the Midwest bought her. I paid what I thought was an attractive price for "Rise 'n Shine", but they got an even better deal. That boat had the 4-108 and a generator. They kept 'er in Massachusetts over last winter and now have transited all the way to Waukegan Illinois. You can find the blog by Googling "Willow B".

Cheers!

J.S.

willowb.us to be precise. It was interesting reading their transit of the Erie Canal. I did the opposite direction last summer bringing my prairie home.

Anybody have a shot of the stern below the WL that shows her shape aft?
I think the Prarie is a SD boat and that explains the big engines found in them. i would think them underpowered w the 4-108 .. in view of the wide beam but perhaps they are actually FD.

manyboats said:

Anybody have a shot of the stern below the WL that shows her shape aft?
I think the Prarie is a SD boat and that explains the big engines found in them. i would think them underpowered w the 4-108 .. in view of the wide beam but perhaps they are actually FD.

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Found these,

Looking on 'Miss DotDee' post in this forum has a couple pics also.

OK Good,
Looks like she can use more power than the 108. I'd call a Prarie 29 one of the very rare underpowered trawlers. The bigger old Perkins 236 may be OK but I'd consider an Izusu 54hp or Yanmar 55hp perfect. Other 115 cu in (approx) engines may be as good but I've heard nothing but great stuff about the aformentioned pair.

Thanks for the pics .. I especially like the lines I see in the lower pic of post 78. The upper pic shows a good sized rudder very similar to the Willard. The side decks make soo much more sense w the 12' beam. The more I see the more I like. The Prarie 29 is very much better looking w/o the flybridge .. more easily justified knowing about the 12' beam. Gurryman why is your FB fuzzy? I'm glad my Willard is w/o. Don't want to talk about my Willy as Al may deflate my masculinity ... again.

manyboats, Those are photos of Prairie 29 hulls, Not my boat.

Gurryman,
I thought you had a Prarie. I see you have a lobster type on the trailer. I was directing my comments to Prarie owners in general. But your name was on the post w the pics .. made assumptions.

Willow B here. I purchased my P29 in Boston and made it thru the CCC south to NY Harbor, then up the Hudson to the Erie Canal. Then crossed Lakes Erie, Huron & Michigan to Larson's in Waukegan, Il. The record high water in the Illinois River and Mississippi near St Louis stopped us short. Willow B was winterized and stored indoors until June 2016, when we will continue to the Calumet/Joliet Channel to the Illinois River. Then down the Mighty Mississippi, then it's 500 miles upstream up the Ohio.

It's been a great trip so far. I'm looking forward to next June.

The previous owner lived aboard for 8 years. He relocated to the Virgin Islands, therefore was a very motivated seller.

The P29 is the perfect trawler for us. With the 4-108, She makes 5.8k in slack water @ 2500-2600 rpm. She burns approx 1 gal/hr. With such a short/wide hull design, she is pitchy in a head sea(short) and yaws quite a bit at cruise(wide). My anchor locker is loaded with chain and I believe this weight adds to the yaw issue.

She is a full displacement hull with a deep shoe. When I push the throttle ahead the yaw gets worse. The boat 'likes' the 6 knot range. Any faster is beyond theoretical hull speed anyway.

Once at our home port many issues will be addressed. The plan is to make annual trips down the Tenn-Tom with a destination of the Tx & La coasts & Rivers.

I started the blog to keep family and friends updated. ---> willowb.us.

Willow B standing by Ch 16/9

Willow B,
Sounds like you've got her propped nice and light. What gear ratio and what prop?

Your comments sound quite familiar to this Willard owner. Yup a short boat is probably more susceptible to excessive rode weight. Balance is golden but excess weight I prefer in the stern. The solution to the rode weight in a word .. nylon.

The boat IS propped correct. All documentation is onboard in Waukegan & I don't remember the prop diameter/pitch. It is a very small 3- blade. The spare is a 4-blade, which leads me to believe one of the PO's did a bit of experimentation. The gear is a Velvet Drive with1.9:1 reduction.

My very short list of of only 3 improvements once we get her to her home port is lose the chain and replace with nylon. I believe the gypsy will handle 9/16" rode.

The other two projects are the holding tank. Current system is a defunct (small) MSD system that needs to go. To accomplish this task, the v-berth must be disassembled.

Which leads me to the other (last) improvement. Redesign of the v-berth/stowage below.

Other than these few modifications, the P29 is OUR perfect boat.

On Slip Aweigh the PO installed a lectrasan with approximately a 25 gallon holding tank. As far as the Boss is concerned that's the absolute best part of the boat. Well.... That and the memory foam mattress' we sleep on. To install the MSD tank and vac pump the lower port drawer had to be sacrificed. They just screwed the door front on, thus removing the actual drawer from the equation. The other drawer they shortened immensely. But the STBD drawers are all full size. And coincidentally we have the same prop selection. The 3 blade is ON and the 4 blade is in the lazarette.

Sounds like the PO did you a favor by installing the Lectrasan for you. I currently have an electric Jabsco head. I plan to install a straightforward holding tank downstream.

I plan on losing both of the port and the midship drawers and retaining the stbd drawers in tact. The area between the berths shall be consumed by dry stores. The hanging locker below the helm has already been converted to pantry. All (should) balance out nicely once we shed over 200' of chain in the anchor locker. The sbbd side of the v-berth shall become clothing racks. I do like the memory foam comfort as well and plan to incorporate as well.

All plans are cast in warm butter and subject to change.

Willow-B said:

The boat IS propped correct. All documentation is onboard in Waukegan & I don't remember the prop diameter/pitch. It is a very small 3- blade. The spare is a 4-blade, which leads me to believe one of the PO's did a bit of experimentation. The gear is a Velvet Drive with1.9:1 reduction.

My very short list of of only 3 improvements once we get her to her home port is lose the chain and replace with nylon. I believe the gypsy will handle 9/16" rode.

The other two projects are the holding tank. Current system is a defunct (small) MSD system that needs to go. To accomplish this task, the v-berth must be disassembled.

Which leads me to the other (last) improvement. Redesign of the v-berth/stowage below.

Other than these few modifications, the P29 is OUR perfect boat.

Click to expand...

The gear is 2.9:1 reduction... My bad. I don't know the current pitch as one of the POs experimented. I'm debating adding an inch of pitch (while hauled) to see if it helps or hurts. Any experienced advice is welcome.

Willow-B,
One should observe that there is an optimum pitch/dia ratio for every boat given the variables. A very significant one being the maximum diameter prop there is room for. The number of blades, blade aspect ratio, boat speed, blade tip speed ect ect can/should be considered. Numericly about a .75-1 (pitch/dia ratio) is good but the ratio varies w the other variables.
Numerous trawlers are equiped w too much dia and blade area. Eats up power and delivers too little thrust in return. A 3 blade will probably be best for most trawlers.
A good source of information is Michigan Wheel. They can be very helpful.
And if you're not burdened w too much money sometimes the best prop is the one you've got.
I have a prop that is not the most efficient design. The advantages of smoothness and reverse thrust trumps 2 or 3 percent efficency loss.
Lots of variables.

Willow-B said:

Willow B here. I purchased my P29 in Boston and made it thru the CCC south to NY Harbor, then up the Hudson to the Erie Canal. Then crossed Lakes Erie, Huron & Michigan to Larson's in Waukegan, Il. The record high water in the Illinois River and Mississippi near St Louis stopped us short. Willow B was winterized and stored indoors until June 2016, when we will continue to the Calumet/Joliet Channel to the Illinois River. Then down the Mighty Mississippi, then it's 500 miles upstream up the Ohio.

It's been a great trip so far. I'm looking forward to next June.

The previous owner lived aboard for 8 years. He relocated to the Virgin Islands, therefore was a very motivated seller.

The P29 is the perfect trawler for us. With the 4-108, She makes 5.8k in slack water @ 2500-2600 rpm. She burns approx 1 gal/hr. With such a short/wide hull design, she is pitchy in a head sea(short) and yaws quite a bit at cruise(wide). My anchor locker is loaded with chain and I believe this weight adds to the yaw issue.

She is a full displacement hull with a deep shoe. When I push the throttle ahead the yaw gets worse. The boat 'likes' the 6 knot range. Any faster is beyond theoretical hull speed anyway.

Once at our home port many issues will be addressed. The plan is to make annual trips down the Tenn-Tom with a destination of the Tx & La coasts & Rivers.

I started the blog to keep family and friends updated. ---> willowb.us.

Willow B standing by Ch 16/9

Click to expand...

Willow- We have a 27 foot Marben trawler which has a 10 foot beam at the widest point although the stern tapers to 9 foot beam across the deck. We draw 3 feet and consider our hull F/D (Eric-) As I review your post I agree to the 'Hobby Horse' into head seas. We recently pulled a Perkins 4-154 (58 HP) out and installed a running Perkins 4-236 in its place.(85HP)
The 154 had a 3;1 and we changed to a 2;1 with the 236 and kept the same wheel. We are honorably over wheeled by forum standards. Our top RPM is 2000 on a 2800 rated RPM scale. Now Willow, we should have a lower hull speed than you yet when we use the Vicprop formula

:Vicprop - Propeller Calculator

we have and do cruise, at the hull speed of 6.9 knots the formula produces. We run at 1400 RPM so we still have a safe margin of 600 RPM which as you indicate, is the best setting as anymore throttle just creates water displacement, noise, and smoke, very little improvement in speed. We consume 1.3 gallons per hour. We think we are fine with this over wheel results.
Okay- Now here is an area to compare. We have a limited fuel capacity of 90 gallons, 48 gallons of water. The engine/gear weight is 1500#. We have little in the area of anchor chain, 25 feet, so that is not a factor by itself.
Due to the "Hobby Horse" effect combined with a horrid snap roll in the for mentioned weight factors, we were alarmed at the motion of the boat, unsafe not but very uncomfortable would be fair.
As a result of many suggestions from our Forum members, all in good intent and welcome, we were fortunate to local locally, 50# lead ingots. We purchased in total 1300# and installed them thus, We added one 50# directly to the chain locker floor. At the junction of the v-berth there is a floor locker cabin, we added one 50# to the floor of that locker. Moving back we installed
6- 50# ingots above the keel in a existing alley. Under the engine/gear we placed 4-50# ingots. Along side the engine bed-port side, we placed 6-50# ingots favoring aft abeam the reduction gear. We placed 4-50# ingots on the Starboard side mid ship of the engine (Aft of this weight is located the 11 gallon hot water tank which offsets. The remaining ingots were placed in the lazeret evenly aside the rudder stock.
The outcome is a perfectly balanced boat!!! We cut the Hobby Horse down to nil, the boat cuts more than lifts. Following seas affect us sitll yet at a lessor degree, the yawl is slowed way down. We can ride beam seas in a fashion where the boat rides up, the wave or swell moves UNDER, the boat remains in a vertical stance, any roll is gentle and slow.
All of this weight on top of the as built of 1500# of lead in the keel, and the boat burns not enough additional fuel to make a noticeable difference.

Here is a site of a sister boat that we almost purchased:


1978 Marben Flybridge Trawler Pilothouse Pocket Cruiser Title

Would you be kind enough to view the photos and comment as to how close all of this is to your boat/conditions? Note the fuel and such in this boat and understand the weight difference between our boat and this one due to tankage alone.

Long response, sorry

Al-Ketchikan