BruceK
Moderator Emeritus
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Guys like this thrive on oxygen, and don`t respond to hard questions. Save your keyboard for something important.
New Long Thin, Hyper-Efficient Trawler
- Thread starter LRC58Fan
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
FF
Guru
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"Yes, long skinny is old-tech. Still, most people these days seem to want lots of living space and minimal berthing fees."
So by popular demand the ROOMARAN !!!,
a 3 story tall beach ball , with oxygen tent up top is the big seller.
When yearly slip fees are far higher than the fuel bill the Roomaran wins!
So by popular demand the ROOMARAN !!!,
a 3 story tall beach ball , with oxygen tent up top is the big seller.
When yearly slip fees are far higher than the fuel bill the Roomaran wins!
Nomad Willy
Guru
The first two pics looks like he's #1 ..... Looking for discussion.
But the last pic does tent to incriminate. Could have been just good computer skills and snatched off a real comercial. And anybody can post anybody's link now days.
But a moderator should be able to track a member to see if they just post the same kind of thing every several weeks to months. Brokers usually don't take part in conversation that dosn't directly lead to sales. Their interest is only sales.
Nomad Willy
Guru
Speaking of the bottom pic look at those flowing lines of the house. Not a straight line to be found nor a right angle. The stuff of custom boats to be sure. A nice powerful striaght stem and that's it for straight. The whole boat is a piece of art. And I think it would be very unlikely to be built in the US .. Or the UK. A slicer too. In fact it may be the most beautiful boat ever to come to these pages. Wonder what the stern looks like?
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Ah - I'm boatless right now, having sold my sailboat a number of years ago. So - I'm just planning for my next boat right now. Very interested in sharing notes and perspectives with others who are also interested in this type of boat - and learning about all the new variations that are coming out in this design.
Sure - they aren't for everyone, but for some of us moving from sailboats (perhaps the majority of people interested in this type of boat) they really strike a cord.
Wxx3
Dauntless Award
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- Kadey Krogen 42 - 148
Well then, I how hope you invite me aboard when you finally get your boat.
I'd love to see how a boat designed like a Destroyer is to live in.
Also, i know many sailors are attracted to the kadey krogen because of its efficiency, both inside and out.
Long, thin boats sacrifice a lot for marginal gains.
That's why I'd be interested in seeing you get one.
I wonder why people like the Sea Shepherds don't get a few. At the advertised prices, with good speed, they have to be more efficient then the Bob Barker!
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- Now boatless - sold 6/2018
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Watch the short video above Eric, and you'll see. Actually she does look like a very nice boat, and the long, relatively thin shape certainly does not impose anything like a spartan or cramped interior either, from the video. It's just distributed lengthwise, rather like the very roomy canal narrowboat we have sailed in the UK, but wider, and way nicer inside.
I'm of the philosophy that "less is more" when it comes to a boat. Simpler, thinner designs result in shorter and safer transit times, and more time doing what I really want to do which is explore the unique areas of the world.
"Marginal gains" are in the eye of the beholder. Everyone is looking for something different in a boat - every boat is a trade off. I'm just interested in exploring the different issues and tradeoffs within the longer thin design approaches.
I've loved following the Dauntless travels - and at some point I'd like to do something similar, but I'd also like to venture off to higher latitudes and areas less traveled. And I'd just feel a lot safer in an aluminum boat that can handle a "knock down" from a large wave.
Nomad Willy
Guru
PeterB,
Thanks for the heads up Peter .. what a boat. I love the way the WL beam gets much narrower aft. Most boats are just straight slabs parallel to the CL. I also like the stanchion posts for the cap rail. No ugly squarish flange plate .. the tube goes straight down in the boat .. as clean as can be. LRC58Fan thank you very much.
Thanks for the heads up Peter .. what a boat. I love the way the WL beam gets much narrower aft. Most boats are just straight slabs parallel to the CL. I also like the stanchion posts for the cap rail. No ugly squarish flange plate .. the tube goes straight down in the boat .. as clean as can be. LRC58Fan thank you very much.
A unique and very high quality version of the concept is being built in Germany for coastal and inland waterway cruising, the Pinasse range of boats: www.pinasse-boats.com (German language version only).
Tad Roberts
Guru
Yesterday I made this sketch of an efficient motoryacht. I was trying for something that doesn't look like it came from outer space. I assume that will not appeal to the technically minded crowd, which is fine. She's about 62' x 13'6", around 50,000 pounds at full load, 1000 gallons of fuel. Twin 75 HP engines give 10 knots top speed and at 7 knots range is 4000 miles. One decent stateroom, room for tons of temporary guests, stand-up walk-around engine room, great living room, huge outdoor cockpit.
Diesel Duck
Senior Member
Tad:
I like it! That said, I have a question... Is it necessary to have such a big spread, 11 feet, between the LOA and LWL? With slip fees in many areas being so expensive would it be feasible, visually speaking, to chop off 6 or 7 feet from the LOA?
I like it! That said, I have a question... Is it necessary to have such a big spread, 11 feet, between the LOA and LWL? With slip fees in many areas being so expensive would it be feasible, visually speaking, to chop off 6 or 7 feet from the LOA?
That looks pretty nice!
and a related design:
Details here:
Nach 5 Jahren – Ein Wort zum Thema Qualität - Pinasse Boats
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Tad Roberts
Guru
Necessary? Nope, not at all.....but it's a slippery slope. Vertical stem and transom have their attractions. Long, lean, high-tech, unpainted aluminum motoryachts are (at some level) a display of wealth and conspicuous consumption. In this case we're using overhangs as a display of wealth, but also providing a public service in the form of harbour beatification. Folks who know nothing of boats will come miles to gaze at a bit of varnish.....
cardude01
Guru
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Your sketch kind of looks like this boat, but much better.
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/2003/Ang-Trawler-56-2692360/Martinique-(FR)#.Vnm_OYm9K0c
Wxx3
Dauntless Award
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- Kadey Krogen 42 - 148
We started with a clean sheet with no preconceptions and then I read virtually everything I could find by people who have cruised the world on small boats.
We ended up with the Krogen because it seemed the best fit for what we wanted to do.
Lcr58, Looking at your comments in this thread and your last three statements above seem to sum up your position well: you started with your solution (2 above) and everything you've written just tries to justify that solution.
Sprinkled with "facts" that are not supported by data, but by your opinion. (1 &3).
And we keep on hearing the same trite lines over and over again.
In fact, this whole thread has become trite.
Nomad Willy
Guru
"In fact this whole thread has become trite"
Then why are you here Richard?
Then why are you here Richard?
Nomad Willy
Guru
TAD,
Is your boat w a single rudder between the propwash of the two screws? I like that a lot.
I assume she has hollow Water lines fore and aft. A low PC and very efficient at moderate speeds. Wetted surface is probably minimal as well.
Very old school over all look and in a world of cheezy plastic boats is a big pluss IMO. I hope it goes far further than a sketch.
Is your boat w a single rudder between the propwash of the two screws? I like that a lot.
I assume she has hollow Water lines fore and aft. A low PC and very efficient at moderate speeds. Wetted surface is probably minimal as well.
Very old school over all look and in a world of cheezy plastic boats is a big pluss IMO. I hope it goes far further than a sketch.
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BruceK
Moderator Emeritus
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I love watching a PR guy at work. Marvelous. Keep it up.
markpierce
Master and Commander
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Question: how well do skinny boats do in a beam sea compared to a fatter boat? Intuition tells me: not too well. Am I mistaken?
Nomad Willy
Guru
It would take less course change to reduce the rolling of a beam sea w a longer boat.
MurrayM
Guru
Paravanes.
An equally valid question would be...why do so many big & beamy boats have active fin stabilizers?
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Nomad Willy
Guru
The active finn stabilizers are a modern thing and so are big beamy boats.
FF
Guru
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"Question: how well do skinny boats do in a beam sea compared to a fatter boat? Intuition tells me: not too well. Am I mistaken?"
Perhaps , fat boats LB 3-1 will roll from side to side as a wave passes abeam.
Flat bottomed or hard chines are worse than round , as the wave can lift from further from the center line.
A genuine long shinny boat LB of 6-1 or better will simply go up and down as the beam wave passes, with far less roll.
Which motion is less likely to cause a Vomitorium ? depends on your stomach.
Rolling can be resisted with enough bucks for hyd fins .
Up and down would require a slight course change.
Perhaps , fat boats LB 3-1 will roll from side to side as a wave passes abeam.
Flat bottomed or hard chines are worse than round , as the wave can lift from further from the center line.
A genuine long shinny boat LB of 6-1 or better will simply go up and down as the beam wave passes, with far less roll.
Which motion is less likely to cause a Vomitorium ? depends on your stomach.
Rolling can be resisted with enough bucks for hyd fins .
Up and down would require a slight course change.
A new long-thin drone ship going into sea trials. Thought it looks pretty interesting:
World’s Largest Anti-Submarine Robot Ship Ready for Sea-Trials in April
The 132-feet (40 meters) long Sea Hunter, an unmanned autonomous trimaran, will be christened in April 2016 at the Vigor Shipyards in Oregon and immediately afterwards commence sea-trials for 18 months to test its long-range tracking capabilities, among a host of other things. During the testing DARPA will closely cooperate with the Office of Naval Research and the Space and Naval Systems Warfare Command.
The ship’s primary mission will be tracking enemy subs in shallow waters, I noted in June 2015 (See: “US Navy to Deploy Robot Ships to Track Chinese and Russian Subs”). Furthermore, I explained that the ACTUV “is designed to operate autonomously for 60 to 90 days straight, surveil large stretches of ocean territory and — should an enemy sub be spotted — guide other U.S. naval assets to the vessel’s location to destroy it (the ACTUV itself is unarmed).”
The ACTUV will only cost about $15,000 to $20,000 per day to operate, according to Scott Littlefield, program manager of DARPA’s Tactical Technology Office, quoted in Sea Magazine. (In comparison, a destroyers costs around $700,000 to operate per day.) DARPA’s website notes that the ACTUV’s “objective is to generate a vessel design that exceeds state-of-the art platform performance to provide propulsive overmatch against diesel electric submarines at a fraction of their size and cost.”
Full article here:
World’s Largest Anti-Submarine Robot Ship Ready for Sea-Trials in April | The Diplomat
World’s Largest Anti-Submarine Robot Ship Ready for Sea-Trials in April
The 132-feet (40 meters) long Sea Hunter, an unmanned autonomous trimaran, will be christened in April 2016 at the Vigor Shipyards in Oregon and immediately afterwards commence sea-trials for 18 months to test its long-range tracking capabilities, among a host of other things. During the testing DARPA will closely cooperate with the Office of Naval Research and the Space and Naval Systems Warfare Command.
The ship’s primary mission will be tracking enemy subs in shallow waters, I noted in June 2015 (See: “US Navy to Deploy Robot Ships to Track Chinese and Russian Subs”). Furthermore, I explained that the ACTUV “is designed to operate autonomously for 60 to 90 days straight, surveil large stretches of ocean territory and — should an enemy sub be spotted — guide other U.S. naval assets to the vessel’s location to destroy it (the ACTUV itself is unarmed).”
The ACTUV will only cost about $15,000 to $20,000 per day to operate, according to Scott Littlefield, program manager of DARPA’s Tactical Technology Office, quoted in Sea Magazine. (In comparison, a destroyers costs around $700,000 to operate per day.) DARPA’s website notes that the ACTUV’s “objective is to generate a vessel design that exceeds state-of-the art platform performance to provide propulsive overmatch against diesel electric submarines at a fraction of their size and cost.”
Full article here:
World’s Largest Anti-Submarine Robot Ship Ready for Sea-Trials in April | The Diplomat
eyschulman
Guru
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That looks pretty nice!
and a related design:
Details here:
Nach 5 Jahren – Ein Wort zum Thema Qualität - Pinasse Boats
Looks like an uglier version of my boat with a smaller cockpit and extended house with starkly modern lines..
BaltimoreLurker
Curmudgeon
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eyschulman
Guru
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Back to the 20s and 30s with the addition of modern building machinery and electronics. Many of the older power yachts would qualify as efficient. I am definitely a fan of classic boat lines and love when they are incorporated into modern building. The modern trend of the fat high sided bulky house cottage on the water boat is not my favorite type.
Nomad Willy
Guru
Re TAD's "efficient motor yacht" she looks like a sailboat to be sure. Reminds me of the days where I was thinking of making a trawler out of a sailboat hull. Bought the Willard before that happened.
My kind of boat .. twin engine Full displacement. However I don't even drool over boats this big. That formula won't get more than two cylinders in a small boat. Can you imagine syncing two two cylinder engines?
My kind of boat .. twin engine Full displacement. However I don't even drool over boats this big. That formula won't get more than two cylinders in a small boat. Can you imagine syncing two two cylinder engines?
