Retirement boat question...

Alaskan-

Your plans mirror ours pretty much, I retired at 59, 19 years ago. Purchased our first retirement boat knowing that at some point I would have to adjust for age. We maintained lovingly our 30 foot converted tug venturing to all corners of our ‘Boating world”. We have all we need within 150 mile radius. Hence we do well with simplicity and yes there was always an improvement or something to keep busy. We did hit the age factor three years ago and sadly let go and sold the wood tug and purchased our current glass boat.
Following your threads that included the looked forward retirement has been noted and now, welcome get up home as soon and safe as you can. Jump in, the retirement waters of Alaska are fantastic!!



I am 13 days from retirement. Yep less than 2 weeks. I am 57 and we bought ASD in 2013 so I would have time to make her ours. As some TF have read, I just added the last piece of equipment (laptop). I am ready to go north. There will always be things to fix, improve etc. I gave myself a few years to get it together. Just me I guess.”......
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My post on another thread.

“No- I do not have a auto pilot nor a rudder indicator. The boat I have was purchased with simplicity in mind. one VHF, one radar,one compass, one $75.00 tablet with a 'Free' download GPS chart system. backed up with my IPhone 'free' charts and two Hummingbird feet/fathom meters.
I am adding a 'SPOT' location/routing GPS unit this Spring and upgrading the VHF to that which has the Lat/Lon feature.
Inexpensive, easy to fix/replace


Al-Ketchikan

Great thread!! I'll try my best to avoid repeating the many good points already raised which I agree with.

I generally don't like to take on debt except for house and sometimes a car, but we NEVER pay interest or fees for consumer purchases and I've almost always paid off the loans early. I hate paying interest, fees, fines and taxes! Having said that, for many years I dreamed of owning a boat. Bought my first one, a 19 ft SeaRay bowrider, at age 43. I was smitten. As I approached retirement, I just knew I needed a boat to fill the drive within me to fish and cruise in comfort during my retirement years. I didn't know diddly squat about owning 'big' boats, but my best friend did and he brought me up to speed.

I knew that I'd have more time than money in retirement, so a diesel trawler fit the bill...slow but cheap. I only had so much to spend so a used boat updated by the PO worked for me. When I decided to buy, I was 49 and planning for an age 55 retirement. I could have paid cash, but didn't want to dip into money earmarked for retirement or family obligations like food, housing and college, even temporarily. I could afford more boat by borrowing the money but knew it needed to be paid off before retirement. If I had 5 years to pay it off, I'd also have 5 years to

1. make sure it's what I really enjoyed before jumping into retirement with both feet (but you already have that box checked),

2. see if this is the right boat for me in retirement since I was starting with zero big boat experience (not a problem for you),

3. confirm that I was able to maintain the vessel on my own and it would fit into my retirement budget (you already know that), and

4. have time to make improvements and modifications to suit my tastes and needs.

To make a long story short, I feel I got the boat I wanted for my mission. I found it within 6 months of starting the hunt. I had the time to pay off the loan early, tweak the boat to my liking, build some experience and stock the boat with spares and future projects to keep me busy in retirement. I have not needed to lay out substantial sums to improve the boat in the 3 years since my retirement 1 day before my 55th birthday.

I got lucky with an ER that suits me for my stage of life. It's big enough for my big ass. It's not stand-up for the big jobs but it's a convertible with hatches. Just takes a little more time, but access from fwd and aft for daily checks is very workable so far for me. I can still crawl 360 degrees around my twin engines to this day, although I don't do it for fun.

One other issue I haven't seen addressed: Will a "retirement boat" that you purchase now meet your needs over the years remaining until retirement? Many feel the need for speed in their boats to make the most of their limited boating time while still employed. The slow retirement boat might not be a good fit for the next working years.

Al said:

Alaskan-

Your plans mirror ours pretty much, I retired at 59, 19 years ago. Purchased our first retirement boat knowing that at some point I would have to adjust for age. We maintained lovingly our 30 foot converted tug venturing to all corners of our ‘Boating world”. We have all we need within 150 mile radius. Hence we do well with simplicity and yes there was always an improvement or something to keep busy. We did hit the age factor three years ago and sadly let go and sold the wood tug and purchased our current glass boat.
Following your threads that included the looked forward retirement has been noted and now, welcome get up home as soon and safe as you can. Jump in, the retirement waters of Alaska are fantastic!!



I am 13 days from retirement. Yep less than 2 weeks. I am 57 and we bought ASD in 2013 so I would have time to make her ours. As some TF have read, I just added the last piece of equipment (laptop). I am ready to go north. There will always be things to fix, improve etc. I gave myself a few years to get it together. Just me I guess.”......
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Al-Ketchikan

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Al,

You brought tears to my eyes. I love Alaska almost as much as the Admiral. Alaska will ALWAYS be my first true love. I must say that 45f and rain is better than 10f and snow. When we reach Ketch, I will make sure to let you know so we can share a drink or two together....Tom

FF said:

Having a ballroom for a Hell Hole sounds on the surface grand , but realistically you will just inspect and perhaps do PM , and most repairs will be a hired wrench. Who cares if he has to lug the new starter , rather than wheel a cart?

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Hell hole......well termed as always, Fred, but the sound of the term itself is why I want my stand-up engine room. I imagine a place big enough to hold all the tools and the machinery of the boat. Add a workbench with a vise, bench grinder and enough room to actually work on something, and with the wiring and plumbing organized enough not to have to pay a contortionist to reach the things I'm no longer able. An access door instead of a hatch is assumed. Of course, affording it might be another thing. I can't see my retirement boat without my own special place to retire too. Heck, I'd probably add a head, a fridge and a lounge chair for that matter.

Codger2 said:

450 miles, huh? That's a lot of boring time....how did you cope with that?

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By doing 25 miles per day - with the rest for play! Silly

Alaskan Sea-Duction said:

You brought tears to my eyes. I love Alaska almost as much as the Admiral. Alaska will ALWAYS be my first true love.

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Same here. Sixteen years since I left, but I still (and probably always will) tear up when I hear the Flag Song. Every year lately we do a week or two-week charter with another couple. This year might be Alaska (out of Juneau), if it works. Every time I go back to visit I want to kiss the ground like the Pope when he lands in a foreign country.

Almost any used boat you buy will need some sorting out, improving,fixing, they are not always what they seem, plus as experience widens what you want may change. There is value in acquiring the boat before retirement while income is still flexible and perhaps able to be expanded with extra work effort. That way you may move into retirement with the boat better "sorted out", as you want it, in the condition you want, with any expensive items already done and dusted.

"Hell hole......well termed as always, Fred, but the sound of the term itself is why I "want my stand-up engine room. I imagine a place big enough to hold all the tools and the machinery of the boat. Add a workbench with a vise, bench grinder and enough room to actually work on something, and with the wiring and plumbing organized enough not to have to pay a contortionist to reach the things I'm no longer able."

My point is in retirement you will eventually reach the point where its far easier to hire a wrench than sit below at a work bench tearing apart yet another failed part.

Using commercial vessel style items instead of "yacht" grade can help ,,if you do the installation while boat repair.upgrade is still part of your boating hobby.

Once repair/replacement becomes a PIA , all you need to do is inspect the workmanship and write a check.

An operating engine space is never a fun place to be , headroom or not.

That's why I suggest having as many serviceable items , like fuel filter banks OUT of the hell hole.

Boating rags push the Holy Place idea as if you would rather cruise there than at the helm.

Good for them , but its not many that chose that style cruising..

FF said:

My point is in retirement you will eventually reach the point where its far easier to hire a wrench than sit below at a work bench tearing apart yet another failed part.

Once repair/replacement becomes a PIA , all you need to do is inspect the workmanship and write a check.

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I think this is legit. We don't have stand-up headroom, but we have a decent day hatch and if necessary I can remove floor hatches. That mostly works for now, and when it doesn't... it's easy to whip out the trusty checkbook once I've diagnosed an issue.

Example: our port side water pump is outboard. I can get there, but already chose not to. The young engine tech in our yard does an impeller change much better/faster/cheaper than I can. AND... stand-up headroom wouldn't matter in this case anyway.

I've got plenty of room down there for the tools I need, when I do the work. Room for a bench grinder? No, but then again if the job needs a bench grinder I'm not going to be the one doing it.

Would I like more ER space? Sure. Is that a major feature for us? No, not really (although any smaller might get more attention) We occupy and use the other 95% of the boat much more often. And I'm not ever intending to enjoy lunch or cocktails or whatever in the engine room. Much better places aboard for that kind of stuff.

On the original topic... in our case it was useful to buy about 5 years prior to retirement so I could begin to learn systems. That purchase was only loosely based on retirement planning; the primary driver was that we were due for a new boat with some target features (e.g., stairs to the bridge) we eventually discovered we wanted. IOW, it was just time to move up.

10 years later, I'm still learning systems (and have improved some), but we've also enjoyed 10 years on the boat in the meantime. Finance charges? Not wonderful, but we just look at is a rent we're paying on all that current enjoyment.


And NOW I can say this is likely our retirement boat. Might not have been able to say that at first, although we could make that a reasonable guess. Now I think we've confirmed it... through everything we've learned about it along the way. Unless we win the lottery, of course!


YMMV, whatever floats your boat, etc., etc,. etc.

-Chris

healhustler said:

...... A retirement boat ought to have a stand-up engine room. ................

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While a "stand-up" engine room would be nice, many boats are not large enough to make this a practical feature. I wouldn't give up salon or head space for a stand-up engine room.

Every boat is a compromise and the smaller the boat the greater the compromises. Hopefully, you will spend much more time out of the engine room than in it so that's where you should focus your attention.

I've said it befor, I think standup engine rooms are great,,, in a ship. Or in a boat over 65 feet. Its just to much lost room in a boat with very little to begin with. If it were just me on my 50ish foot trawler a standup engine room would be great, heck I would make it full beam wide and take up a third of the boat. But, most other people wouldnt appreciate that as much as me, especially my wife. I cant give much advice on a retirement boat. I retired about 16 years ago (I'm 53) and still dont know what I like best.

Two cents, if you buy it now and use it until you retire that is a good thing. If you buy it now and look at the boat for 10 years then I would rather look at the money somewhere else. We bought ours one year before I retired and left on it 6 months after retirement.

At 41 I bought my retirement boat. I just didn't know it at the time.

We bought ours 2 years prior. I didn't have that much time to work on it in those 2 years. We wanted to cruise during vacation time, not work on the boat. That turned out just about right for us. The biggest factor for us is no boat payments (or car, house, etc) after retirement on limited income. Maintaining an active cruiser can be a full time job in itself. We don't want to worry about choosing to pay the loan or pay to fix when Uncle Big Bill eventually comes along.

markpierce said:

I don't believe in borrowing money for toys. ... There are going to be a lot of post-retirees needing to dispose of their boats within the next decade.

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I'm in complete agreement! (I wanted to say"I couldn't agree more" but Eric (Manyboats) would call me out on that.) There's going to be some great boats for sale out there in a few years as the "glut" of people retiring continues to grow. It's simply a matter (as Mark Says) of building up the boat funds, then pulling the trigger when the right one presents itself.

Codger2 said:

I'm in complete agreement! (I wanted to say"I couldn't agree more" but Eric (Manyboats) would call me out on that.) There's going to be some great boats for sale out there in a few years as the "glut" of people retiring continues to grow. It's simply a matter (as Mark Says) of building up the boat funds, then pulling the trigger when the right one presents itself.

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CASH - Baby!! Got Cash??? Cash will buy many good used boats (and other items)... at affordable price!!!

We own everything we have... a little note running on one house for TD reasons. With a RCL in the $1M range... just in case we want to turn something quickly. Keep everything well insured.

Toys should always be paid for via expendable CASH! - MO... YRMV

Art said:

CASH - Baby!! Got Cash??? Cash will buy many good used boats (and other items)... at affordable price!!!

We own everything we have... a little note running on one house for TD reasons. With a RCL in the $1M range... just in case we want to turn something quickly. Keep everything well insured.

Toys should always be paid for via expendable CASH! - MO... YRMV

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It's pretty easy to pay cash if the numbers are small or if the person is older.

The plain truth is that the game changes for most folks when the boat price rises and or the person is younger.

Very few pre-retirees can write a quarter or a half million dollar check and not raid their retirement funds. That leaves the choices as financing or a less costly boat, or dreaming of boating, being a keyboard captain while saving funds for a decade.

I for one didn't want a 50' remodeling project sitting at the dock waiting for me to spend my time on, which is what you get as the price of the boat drops to the "just write a check" level. I also didn't want to be a dreamer, hoping someday I could afford to pay cash for a large boat, and praying every night to the s&p 500 gods for a stroke of good luck, while the clock of life keeps ticking away.

Make no decision before it's time.

That's what would guide me in this decision. Until the time, you have plans, but plans change constantly. I certainly never anticipated how my life would be today five years ago. Never at any point in my life have I been smart enough to know what five years ahead would really be like. Retirement was always a plan but the plan was never to the place it ended up, never at the age it ended up, and definitely not the boats.

If you had no boat today then I'd feel different and encourage getting one, but today you have a boat that meets today's needs well. As much as you think you know your retirement needs in a boat, that is so subject to change. You might decide the boat you have is fine. You might decide on what you're thinking today. You might find you want something different. There will be a whole new group of boats by then at all prices and ages. Your capabilities both financially and physically may be better or poorer than you anticipate. Your ideal location may change.

I feel the more information you have, the better decisions and choices can be. As to retirement, you'll have far more information the closer you get to the time.

ksanders said:

It's pretty easy to pay cash if the numbers are small or if the person is older.

The plain truth is that the game changes for most folks when the boat price rises and or the person is younger.

Very few pre-retirees can write a quarter or a half million dollar check and not raid their retirement funds. That leaves the choices as financing or a less costly boat, or dreaming of boating, being a keyboard captain while saving funds for a decade.

I for one didn't want a 50' remodeling project sitting at the dock waiting for me to spend my time on, which is what you get as the price of the boat drops to the "just write a check" level. I also didn't want to be a dreamer, hoping someday I could afford to pay cash for a large boat, and praying every night to the s&p 500 gods for a stroke of good luck, while the clock of life keeps ticking away.

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I understand Kevin. What I say is MO only and YRMV... for anyone else.

I addition - for "High Quality" boats... as well as most other things.. I firmly believe in KISS, Affordability, and Redundancy. I also believe (for boats that is) to purchase only the size you need for comfort and for reasons/areas you plan to use the boat.

Happy Boating Daze! - Art

ksanders said:

...Very few pre-retirees can write a quarter or a half million dollar check and not raid their retirement funds. That leaves the choices as financing or a less costly boat, or dreaming of boating, being a keyboard captain while saving funds for a decade.

I for one didn't want a 50' remodeling project sitting at the dock waiting for me to spend my time on, which is what you get as the price of the boat drops to the "just write a check" level. I also didn't want to be a dreamer, hoping someday I could afford to pay cash for a large boat, and praying every night to the s&p 500 gods for a stroke of good luck, while the clock of life keeps ticking away.

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One of the best posts ever, right there, on the well-trod topic of boat and toy financing. That debate comes up on nearly every boating forum at one time or another, and there's my rationale exactly. I don't disagree with the pay-cash guys for one second if you can do it, but I can relatively easily earn the payments now, I can do the maintenance and improvements now (both financially and physically), and I'm at the top of my earning power now. I'd rather be on the water now than sitting at home eating generic mac and cheese, all proud of myself that I'm self-disciplined with money and I'll be able to write a check for a boat someday.

kthoennes said:

One of the best posts ever, right there, on the well-trod topic of boat and toy financing. That debate comes up on nearly every boating forum at one time or another, and there's my rationale exactly. I don't disagree with the pay-cash guys for one second if you can do it, but I can relatively easily earn the payments now, I can do the maintenance and improvements now (both financially and physically), and I'm at the top of my earning power now. I'd rather be on the water now than sitting at home eating generic mac and cheese, all proud of myself that I'm self-disciplined with money and I'll be able to write a check for a boat someday.

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The whole issue is discipline. If you are disciplined and the boat and time is right, it is an option. But you have be honest with yourself.


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

kthoennes said:

One of the best posts ever, right there, on the well-trod topic of boat and toy financing. That debate comes up on nearly every boating forum at one time or another, and there's my rationale exactly. I don't disagree with the pay-cash guys for one second if you can do it, but I can relatively easily earn the payments now, I can do the maintenance and improvements now (both financially and physically), and I'm at the top of my earning power now. I'd rather be on the water now than sitting at home eating generic mac and cheese, all proud of myself that I'm self-disciplined with money and I'll be able to write a check for a boat someday.

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YES!!! Thank You!

That sums it up nicely!

JDCAVE said:

The whole issue is discipline. If you are disciplined and the boat and time is right, it is an option. But you have be honest with yourself.


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

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Absolutely correct.

Very few have the disipline to look at a major purchase like a large boat, and actually save the money over the long period of time necessary to actually ever buy the boat. If they did, are they actually better off? Did they have more fun sitting at the kitchen table looking at their savings grow, vs sitting in the cockpit of their boat?

I think that many of the cash buyers are retirees that decide they want to buy a boat, and realize that they have saved enough in their investment accounts to buy it and still have a good retirement.

Other cash buyers are business owners, or folks that were in the right place at the right time with a startup company, and cashed out. I think there are very few wage earners that have the option of buying a large boat prior to retirement with cash.

Younger people, and wage earners that want a large boat have generally not reached the stage in life yet where they have the liquidity to buy the larger boat with cash, so they use the tools they have, IE promising their future earnings. These are not bad or financially undisiplined people, they are people that have had other things going on in life like homes, and kids, and the rest that life entails.

I for one am glad I have used my future earning power to get out on the water now, vs waiting until later in life. I have my health now. I have had my adventures yesterday and today. The future is not promised to any of us, so time spent wishing I had a boat would have been time I could never get back.

Yes my cost has been some interest. But then again I didn't spend the time analyzing my bank statements daydreaming about a large boat. I spent it on my actual boat daydreaming of what to bbq for dinner, and wondering what the whales I saw that day were thinking.

Do it now

Baker said:

I am 50 years old. I am staring down retirement...the sooner the better. Whether I am retirement worthy financially, is not what I am am asking about. What I am asking about is....WHEN do you purchase your retirement boat?? I know that is a broad question but there are many things to consider. If I were to retire at 55, do I get it now? And why get it earlier than later? Do I wait until I have the money built up to buy the dream boat potentially just months before retirement? Anyway, I know there are no hard and fast answers. Just looking for discussion on the folks that have been through this. If I was ready financially, I'd already be gone. I could easily retire and cruise on my current boat but it does lack storage....and...holy **** the engine space is a bitch to get around. I just wouldn't feel comfortable cruising a boat that I question myself as to the maintenance.

I always thought I'd retire on a Nordhavn or KK...and maybe I could if I delayed retirement some. But I also find mid forties Carvers(440,445,455,456,etc)to be extremely comfortable and represent a tremendous value...with more space in the ER(and C series Cummins) I also know people cruising them and they would work perfectly fine for what I would want to do. Anyway, just rambling here. I am not questioning the type of boat to retire on...just the thoughts that go into planning and more of a timeline of events.

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I recommend you move on this now. We are at a nexus of very low long term interest rates and a pretty good used boat market. I would never buy a new boat again. Used boats between 4 and 10 years old tend to be best value.

We bought a 2007 Mariner/Helmsman 38 with only 420 Hours on engine. Saved over $180K over new. Spent about $30K on various upgrades. Net savings: $150K. Was able to get a 20 yr fixed rate marine mortgage at 3-5/8th % APR. Let the first/previous owner absorb the bulk of the depreciation, and remember, the longer you wait, the more your present boat will depreciate. When you buy a used boat, you should be prepared to plan on an additional 30% to get it prepared the way you want it. That may just as well apply to a new boat. It will probably take a year to get boat fully ready they way you want it, and for you to become familiar with all the operating systems.

A big issue to think about is that "ticking clock", by which I mean how many good years do you have left to enjoy the cruising life? No one ever knows, but I do know of people who had great cruising plans, but sudden unexpected health problems permanently ruined those plans. I read about a survey of terminally ill people. By far the majority of their regrets were about the things they DIDN'T do, not things they had done. You just don't know what tomorrow will bring.

retirement boat

I purchased our first retirement boat at the age of 45 (WITH A GOAL OF RETIRING AT 55) and glade we did so. Our boat was a new Nordhavn 40 which we sold in 18 months before building another N40 then life happened and my wife became ill. Sold the boat, had a difficult 4 years before being able to get back on the water. We just started to build what may become our retirement boat (Helmsman 38 PG) at the age of 55. No way I can retire as planned for another five years if things go well.

Bottom line is buy the boat today and start enjoying life. There are no guarantees.

John T.

I think one thing is being overlooked it telling Baker to go for it, not to wait or he'll miss out on something, and that is that he's not waiting. He has a boat and he's enjoying it. This isn't to have a boat or not. This is to move on to another boat or not. It's about a boat that he believes will fit his retirement needs better but may not fit his current needs any better.

The retirement boat concept will be different from one person to the next, but some generalities will likely apply. Some thought processes for Baker and other in similar position to consider are:

1. How long can you liveaboard your current boat before needing a change. What drives you to the 'ok, time to get off for a bit' decision. Not enough storage space? Uncomfortable built-in settee? No washer/dryer or other household conveniences? The answers to these type of questions could well point you towards 'the right one'.

2. Retirement usually means less time pressure, so you can settle for a slower boat than your current one. Well, maybe. You can always have a Jetski or go-fast tender to satisfy 'need for speed'. A slower boat can be bigger and have all the on-board amenities you like. But can you live with a slow boat while you are still working? For many the better destinations are out of reach on a typical weekend in a slow boat. So getting a slow retirement boat too long before you retire might reduce your usage and spoil the pleasure. My slow boat is mostly OK, but it limits the time and frequency my young adult children are able to boat with me, as much as they enjoy it, simply because they have so much going on in their lives. Were I doing my refit again I would install double the HP so that I could go fast (well, say 20 kn) if I wanted too.

3. Who will be aboard when retired? Often its you and partner only. For friends/family you could say 'bring your own boat' rather than have a boat than is bigger than you need most of the time. But if there are going to be grandkids around and you really want a lot of time with them, then something with a few bunks in a second or third stateroom could be a priority.\

So it comes down to some honest thinking about where you will use the boat and how when retired. Once you think you have the style/size sorted, try some charters for preferably at least 2 weeks at a time to simulate the retirement situation, then at the end of the charter list what the issues/problems were. Given that selling a boat is normally a slow process and might involve taking a hit on the total money you have in the boat, its worth working really hard to find the right boat with your next purchase. You don't want to be making too many boat changeovers.

ksanders said:

I for one am glad I have used my future earning power to get out on the water now, vs waiting until later in life. I have my health now. I have had my adventures yesterday and today. The future is not promised to any of us, so time spent wishing I had a boat would have been time I could never get back.

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Bang on!


Jim
Sent from my iPad using Trawler Forum

ksanders said:

I for one am glad I have used my future earning power to get out on the water now, vs waiting until later in life. I have my health now. I have had my adventures yesterday and today. The future is not promised to any of us, so time spent wishing I had a boat would have been time I could never get back.

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I agree!

My parents played by the rules, raised 4 kids, planned to retire at 65 and see the world. Dad needed a pacemaker at 62 and they then retired early with only a couple of years to travel before heart attacks, strokes, and a bunch of other aliments basically forced them to stay near home, the family doctor, and the hospital. Lessons learned: Life can change quickly, don't wait till the end for dessert. Old age is not for sissies!

Ted

Did anyone ever say that a "retirement boat" means one that the person is going to live on full time? Is that what the term "retirement boat" means?

Or is it just a boat that you own in your retirement years and have available for use for day trips or longer cruises?