One Anchor or two?

oscar said:

...can you run to the foredeck and drop a good enough anchor with a reasonable amount of chain, BELAYED ALREADY at the end of said chain in ..... oh .....20 seconds?

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That's a no brainer on most boats. It certainly is on ours; even our dog can do it. We have a self-deploying anchor so it's simply a matter of releasing the chain stop and backing off on the wildcat's friction brake. The anchor heads for the bottom immediately.

Now, we never actually deploy it this way because we don't get into situations where we'd have to. Instead we power the anchor out using the windlass motor and footswitch.

Remember the windlass or capstan has far more uses than just dragging the anchor back aboard.

Be sure it can help with line handling for many other tasks.

If outfitting from scratch I would add ( 2 ) 2 speed geared sail winches one on each stern quarter, docking , dink hoisting or bringing aboard the stern anchor.

Most folks cruise short handed , and when docking a bride that can pill 1200lbs with no effort is always a delight!

Seems an oxymoron that a two anchor and dual windlass setup is advocated by those with a single engine vessel.

But, in all seriousness, that is why we have a fortress with a short chain attached to rope rode setup. Easy to deploy and retrieve if need be. It sits unused in its red bag.

Which reminds me, time to have a pro go through my windlass this spring. Kinda like those with a single engine - don't want it to fail.

Given a choice, I'd prefer a purpose-designed pulpit for two anchors (OC's setup, for example)... and I'd mount two different anchor styles. Both sized as a storm anchor for the boat, but also both known for good holding in different bottoms.


Can't do that on our current boat; the hatch cover over our windlass/rode locker sits too low to mount an additional capstan or gypsy on top of our windlass, and there's a built-in rode channel in there that precludes using a vertical windlass with a gypsy on each side... and two rodes in the same locker would be a mess, anyway.


Best we've been able to do is mount one anchor (SuperMAX) on its own rode (rope/chain, for here in our Chesapeake mud)... and we keep a Fortress (I can lift it!) and spare rode available for other bottom conditions, kedging (once), additional deployment if necessary (so far, not yet).


-Chris

If you cruise you need two anchors at the ready. A great boating friend told me this and I complied. Then 2 years later my second anchor saved me. If I had to drag it out of a locker someplace I would have been in big trouble.
Now I always have 2 anchors ready to deploy.
I use a Danforth and a Delta. Not saying these are best, but 2 different types are necessary IMO.
Many times I deploy 2 anchors depending on the conditions of wind, bottom and swinging room. Always off the bow.
Almost never use a float to indicate anchor position. I would rather someone swing harmlessly over my anchor than get caught on some float line.

jleonard said:

If you cruise you need two anchors at the ready. A great boating friend told me this and I complied. Then 2 years later my second anchor saved me. If I had to drag it out of a locker someplace I would have been in big trouble.
Now I always have 2 anchors ready to deploy.
I use a Danforth and a Delta. Not saying these are best, but 2 different types are necessary IMO.
Many times I deploy 2 anchors depending on the conditions of wind, bottom and swinging room. Always off the bow.
Almost never use a float to indicate anchor position. I would rather someone swing harmlessly over my anchor than get caught on some float line.

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+1

caltexflanc said:

As opposed to a single gypsy????

Or the hydraulic pump packs it in, or hose leaks, or whatever drives the pump....

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Actually I meant two windlass w dedicated wiring or plumbing. Like a twin engine boat. If one fails simply use the other.

The confusion probably was two gypsies on one winch and two winches .. all in the same conversation.

the difficult part of two windlass is probably the chain locker arrangement.

We don't use a float to mark the anchor position. We use it to hold the anchor's trip line which we use in anchorages with the risk of a foul bottom due to old logging site activity or other reasons. If we don't use a trip line we don't use the float.

I realize that Marin but w a device that takes up the slack both anchor position and emergency retrieval could be realized. Just an added benefit. Also knowing where the anchor is can help you make other anchoring decisions. When we used a trip line I thought at times that the anchor could be under the float or under the boat. Guessing helped me be aware of wind and current. Here's our trip line float in Red Bay.

Marin said:

We don't use a float to mark the anchor position. We use it to hold the anchor's trip line which we use in anchorages with the risk of a foul bottom due to old logging site activity or other reasons. If we don't use a trip line we don't use the float.

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That makes sense. Around where I boat we don't have that hazard to contend with however some use a float to mark their anchor position. All that really does is clog up the anchorage and create potential hazards.

We do not use a float simply to mark the anchor's position for the reason others have mentioned here: it would just be something that other boaters could run over or foul.

We've never had a problem knowing more or less where our anchor is without having to mark it with a float. We take basic sightings to a couple of points on shore when we start to deploy it so can reference those if we need to know where our anchor is during our stay. If it was really critical I suppose we could mark it on the GPS although we never have.

So far in most of the places we use a trip line we are the only boat or one of a very few boats in the anchorage. Or we are in an anchorage with a reputation for a foul bottom so most of the other boats there are either using trip lines themselves or know what they are and what our float signifies.

Our boat in the Philippines we almost always set two hooks and use floating rode. Rarely do the rodes tangle even when anchored in the same place for weeks at a time. With slack winds or current the rodes float over the other anchor and laying to wind the scope keeps the rode from tangling. Over kill?
Makes me sleep better and my crew does the hauling. Right now we are tied to a concrete pier and have two stern hooks out. We have twice rode out a signal 2 typhoons using 3 anchors, but with very little fetch from the wind.
Guess I'm a believer in lots of iron in the ground. Our 13 ton boat in Alaska our main anchor is 72 pounds Rocna and 5/16 all chain rode. We've been in storms and most of the anchored boats around use dragged, freak sudden storm and one boat went up on the beach and one hit another doing a small amount of damage. Raining so hard that you couldn't face into the wind and pretty dark out as well.
I used guide Bear hunters for a living and always like 5 in the magazine. I've seen lots of hunters completely empty their guns and have to search their pockets to reload.
So two hooks ready to go appeals to me. Hey whatever makes you comfortable.

ktdtx said:

I've seen boats with 2 anchors on the pulpit. Usually the one on starboard side is connected to chain & windlass.
The anchor on port side is not.
Best I can tell...to use the other anchor you have to physically swap the anchors and dis-connect and reconnect to chain to be able to use the other.
Is this correct?

In the PNW, with lot of unseen bottom hazards, do many people use a highly visible, labeled buoy/float on the anchor to provide another direction of pull to dislodge it?

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Dauntless has two anchors on bow pulpit, main is attached to 400 ft chain on stbd side.
Second, 50 ft chain 250 ft rode.

I have a vertical windlass with chain wildcat and rode capstan.
To switch anchors takes all of 30 seconds, just by pulling slack out of chain locker and pulling off of wildcat.

Richard,
How do you handle the two rodes in the chain locker?

manyboats said:

Richard,
How do you handle the two rodes in the chain locker?

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My chain locker has a vertical wall dividing the two halves about 2/3s up, about 5 ft high.
Also the rode ends are tied thru a hole in it.
Well designed.

I assumed all boats were like that, as the size is just right, as it doesn't allow chain to topple over on itself.

Also in anticipation of our pac nw adventure, I like the idea of adding nylon rode so that chain doesn't sit on bottom, but the chain locker is well drained.

OK GOOD Richard,
If I ever go w chain I'll split my anchor locker. One of the reasons I've poo poo'd chain. My Brait is perfectly mannered.
But my biggest reason to use chain will be convenience .... like everybody else.

manyboats said:

But my biggest reason to use chain will be convenience .... like everybody else.

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People have all sorts of reasons for selecting the type of rode they use. We don't use all chain for convenience. In fact convenience was not even a factor in our decision. We use all-chain because with our boat, our anchor, and the anchoring situations we encounter, all-chain performs better. The type of windlass we have is equally easy to use with a combination rode as an all-chain rode, so it played no role in our decision, either.

Our boat, like all boats of this type and configuration, is extremely tolerant of weight in the bow. So the weight of an all-chain rode was not a consideration. And the chain locker on this type of boat is very deep and accommodating with no tendency for a "pyramid" of chain to slump or fall over, at least not in our experience. We did add containment "walls" extending up a foot or so from the (removable) locker floor but this was not in response to a problem with the pyramid falling over.

If we made any error in our rode decision it was to go with 200 feet of chain. In the region where we use our boat it would have been smarter to go with 300 feet.

We use all chain because with chain we don't have to worry about someone clipping our anchor line in our often tight anchorages. I have seen that several times during my boating "career".
The classic is Block Island where the depth is about 6 feet and most times you can almost walk across the boats and they are not rafted!

Capt.Bill11 said:

You should never have a "regular" anchor and a storm anchor. You should deploy your biggest anchor at all times IMO. Then there is no need to get up in the middle of the night when the wind pipes up to deploy your storm anchor. Or stop your boat from dragging.

I guess it's possible for your ride to foul on your second anchor. But highly unlikely. Unless the second anchor was hanging slightly below where the upper anchors rode was coming off of.

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Exactly correct. Lunch hooks were for the days of old when people had to haul the anchor by hand.

Two different style anchors would be my choice. Though you may never use them different bottoms, lost anchors and storms are things to consider. I only used two anchors once, at the same time, in a tropical storm and used an alternate Danforth when a CQR would not set.
Sure rodes can get twisted if wind or tide reverses multiple times but I figure that I am only using two at the same time in bad conditions. Then a diver can sort it out if necessary.

Marin said:

People have all sorts of reasons for selecting the type of rode they use. We don't use all chain for convenience. In fact convenience was not even a factor in our decision. We use all-chain because with our boat, our anchor, and the anchoring situations we encounter, all-chain performs better. The type of windlass we have is equally easy to use with a combination rode as an all-chain rode, so it played no role in our decision, either.

Our boat, like all boats of this type and configuration, is extremely tolerant of weight in the bow. So the weight of an all-chain rode was not a consideration.

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Ditto for us, convenience not a factor. Well, OK, maybe... if we count that a mostly-rope rode doesn't pick up as much mud around here, which in turn makes it faster to wash the mud off as we bring the anchor back in.

Generally, our combo rode -- with only about 25' of chain leader -- works as well as an all-chain rode. Not better than, but usually as well as. I'd prefer to go back to all chain... to probably realize slightly better shorter-scope holding, given better catenary.. if it weren't for the mud issue.

And the forward weight of all-chain wouldn't be a factor for us, either.

-Chris

freshalaska said:

Guess I'm a believer in lots of iron in the ground. Our 13 ton boat in Alaska our main anchor is 72 pounds Rocna and 5/16 all chain rode. We've been in storms and most of the anchored boats around use dragged, freak sudden storm and one boat went up on the beach and one hit another doing a small amount of damage. .

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Now that is a good setup. No pussy footing around here!

Old school was two different anchor, plow and navy, for different bottoms. Both were sized for the boat. Each anchor had is own rode, deck thru hull and the anchor/rode locker was divided in two. The single windles had a gypsum on both sides, so the windless could be used with either set up. Weigh was a concern so the main the one used most chain and the other was chain and rope.

When we bought the boat the QCR was the main, as the boat was from California and the own cruised the Mexican coast. So the first time we anchored we could not get it to stick, so we switched to the danforth that set and stuck. The next time was shallow weed area which fouled the danforth, so we switched to the QCR which did not get fould with the weeds. We used the danforth in the Puget Sound as the primary. Until we started to moor on the commercial dock.

The commercial crap/fish trawler had one big over sized Fordjorn, navy type anchor. So we swiched the main anchor to a 90+ Fordjorn anchor with the danforth as back up on the deck. So we are old school and commercial.

I use an oversize Delta ready to go, it is deployed with a touch of a toggle. I have an oversize Fortress for use in a bottom that the delta doesn't like, it is also ready to go but requires lifting it over the side as it is not on a mount.

Windless has chain on one side and drum on the other.

If underway in easy conditions I don't tie the anchor to a keeper so it is really a safety device ready to deploy from the helm, if conditions warrant I add a safety line to the anchor to keep seas from caring it away.

Stern anchor as well if needed but they can get you in trouble if not used with forethought.

So many winches have a gypsy to stbd and a drum to port w the gypsy lined up w the bow roller. What would anybody do w the drum? It's so far off center engaging the bow roller and (or with) the winch drum well to port seems not doable to me.

But re this conversation perhaps the 2nd rode is usually 85% nylon line and it's intended that that rode would be hauled over the port rail .. not the bow roller. If the cap rail is varnished teak like my boat I'd be very uninclined to do that.

It would seem to me that putting both the gypsy and the drum on the stbd side of the winch and mounting the winch a bit to port would be the standard arrangment. But that configuration is almost rare.

Manyboats

Special order, Quick Windless

manyboats said:

So many winches have a gypsy to stbd and a drum to port w the gypsy lined up w the bow roller. What would anybody do w the drum? It's so far off center engaging the bow roller and (or with) the winch drum well to port seems not doable to me.

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Our Lofrans Tigres is set up this way and it works perfectly for what we use it for. We use all chain rode so having the wildcat lined up with the pulpit rollers is essential.

The line gypsy to port is positioned perfectly for hauling our trip line when we use one. We feed the line through the port bow hawse where it comes to the line gypsy at a very slight angle. So very easy to wrap around the drum and tail it while operating the windlass with the foot switch.

When we do this we slack off the friction clutch on the wildcat so it doesn't turn while we are hauling in on the trip line.

There have been a couple of times when we've deployed our stern anchor, a Fortress FX-23 on a combination rode, and later had the wind do a 180 so the boat was hanging on the stern anchor which dug it in real good. It proved impossible to pull by hand so we simply carried the rode up to the bow, disconnected from the mooring buoy we were using and let the boat swing around to hang from the bow on the stern anchor.

We then did the same as we do with the trip line: fed the stern anchor's rode though the port bow hawse and used the line gypsy to haul the anchor up. When the chain appeared I simply hauled that and the now-free anchor up by hand, and easy job since the Fortress is so light.

Thanks SCOTTEDAVIS,
I think chain is more tollerant of misalighment that line on a drum and if so I suppose one could position the winch to best advantage. Nice looking windlass.

Marin do you need a winch to haul your trip line? Haha
"when the chain appeared" ..... that's what we do w the rode.

As to the OP everybody uses two rodes including anchors but when a boat gets so big that the rodes can't be handled by hand then the second rode is mounted on the bow.

manyboats said:

Marin do you need a winch to haul your trip line? Haha
"when the chain appeared" ..... that's what we do w the rode.

.

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If we do not need to back the anchor off of something on the bottom, no we don't need to winch the trip line in. We start recovering the anchor normally and when the bow of the boat is directly over the anchor we simply reach out and pick up the trip line float and then pull the line up by hand as the windlass is hauling up the anchor.

But if the anchor has fouled, which it has on several occasions up north, we use the trip line to back it out and this can take some pressure to do. So we use the windlass to back it out from whatever it's caught on. Once it's free, we recover the anchor and trip line as described above.

SCOTTEDAVIS said:

I use an oversize Delta ready to go, it is deployed with a touch of a toggle. I have an oversize Fortress for use in a bottom that the delta doesn't like, it is also ready to go but requires lifting it over the side as it is not on a mount.

Windless has chain on one side and drum on the other.

If underway in easy conditions I don't tie the anchor to a keeper so it is really a safety device ready to deploy from the helm, if conditions warrant I add a safety line to the anchor to keep seas from caring it away.

Stern anchor as well if needed but they can get you in trouble if not used with forethought.

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Which is why we have a VERTICAL windlass.

I can feed chain or rode into either chain locker.